150 réponses à ce sujet

[Yougotcarved1]

Now to clarify - I'm not defending the ending wholesale, but not because it didn't make sense, just because it was really unsatisfying and completely out of keeping with the tone of the series.

I see this all the time on these forums. The whole: "The ending makes no sense because the catalyst says he created synthetics to kill organics to stop synthetics killing organics" argument.

I've seen the odd response to this in the forum reply but thought I'd make a thread on it because I really believe this is a very interesting argument Bioware put forth.

This argument from the Starbrat makes perfect sense to me - its not as simplistic as people reduce it to. Basically what he's saying is that if civilisations are left unchecked they can eventually create a technology (e.g. malicious AI) devastating enough to wipe out ALL organic life. So by cutting the civilizations off at a certain point they eventually save the rest of organic life.

Its like if an advanced race saw human progress and realised we now have the potential to destroy all life on earth with our nukes, so they killed humans first to ensure the safety of all the other races. Its a situation of kill one race to save all the other species, it makes sense to me! Especially if you remove the bias we have towards our own species, from a transcendent point of view like that of the Reapers it makes even more sense...any one else see it like this or am I just barking mad? Again I'm not saying the ending was good or that I agree with the Reapers but I just don't think the logic is as nonsensical as most people seem to be making out

Modifié par Yougotcarved1, 30 avril 2013 - 09:30 .

[Eterna]

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Modifié par Eterna5, 30 avril 2013 - 09:32 .

[chemiclord]

I'm sure that's what Walters was TRYING to say... but the problem I have there is that you could just as easily say that organic/organic conflict would create the same dilemma, and THAT sort of conflict has happened FAR more often than organic/synthetic.

The ending tried to force a general behavior into something much more specific, and it comes across as contrived because of it.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Generalizations for all, I'll assume you're including yourself in that statement.

[Yestare7]

If they would not wipe out advanced life, Synthetics would kill ALL organics. They do it to preserve oranic life (the next cycle) Yes it is total bull****, and the deluded AI catabrat needs to die a slow and agonizing death..... DIE PIG DIE

[SpamBot2000]

And this is based on what exactly? It's not like the kid can point to one example of it happening, since he Reaped everyone. But not before luring them to advance to a tech level they might never have reached otherwise. Not really guarding against the possibility.

And "wiping out ALL organic life" is a bit of a stretch in a Universe that seemingly teems with life.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 30 avril 2013 - 09:36 .

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Generalizations for all, I'll assume you're including yourself in that statement.

I said "some", like the person above who posted the yo dawg meme. 

[Yougotcarved1]

chemiclord wrote...

I'm sure that's what Walters was TRYING to say... but the problem I have there is that you could just as easily say that organic/organic conflict would create the same dilemma, and THAT sort of conflict has happened FAR more often than organic/synthetic.

Totally agree, but the Reapers also solve the organic/organic prolem too. Because they ensure that no organic civilization develops technology far enough to wipe out everyone else as collateral damage. Organics can war as much as they want with each other.

Again like with humans, nations can fight each other to their hearts content but it only becomes a problem with things like nukes, the next conflict between nations could wipe out every living species on this planet. So the Reapers are cutting off progress before they can reach that "killer technology" point. I guess from the Reapers experience this usually takes the form of some kind of AI weapon or tool rather than simple explosives.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Generalizations for all, I'll assume you're including yourself in that statement.

I said "some", like the person above who posted the yo dawg meme. 

Yes you did but saying the OP is wasting their breath implies as certain prevalence on the forum as a whole.

[Yestare7]

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Generalizations for all, I'll assume you're including yourself in that statement.

I said "some", like the person above who posted the yo dawg meme. 

LMAO!!!   he's pointing out sure he didn't just insult himself

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

You're wasting your breath. There is a cognitive dissonance on this forum that leaves some people unable to grasp this simple concept.

It will go in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

Generalizations for all, I'll assume you're including yourself in that statement.

I said "some", like the person above who posted the yo dawg meme. 

Yes you did but saying the OP is wasting their breath implies as certain prevalence on the forum as a whole.

The people who do not grasp the simple concept will never grasp the simple concept.  Hence wasting your breath. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 30 avril 2013 - 09:42 .

[AresKeith]

chemiclord wrote...

I'm sure that's what Walters was TRYING to say... but the problem I have there is that you could just as easily say that organic/organic conflict would create the same dilemma, and THAT sort of conflict has happened FAR more often than organic/synthetic.

The ending tried to force a general behavior into something much more specific, and it comes across as contrived because of it.

This +100

[GreyLycanTrope]

tickle267 wrote...
i posted the image sarcastically, should i remove it?

"The people who do not grasp the simple comment will never grasp the simple concept.  Hence wasting your breath"

[Yougotcarved1]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

And this is based on what exactly? It's not like the kid can point to one example of it happening, since he Reaped everyone. But not before luring them to advance to a tech level they might never have reached otherwise. Not really guarding against the possibility.

And "wiping out ALL organic life" is a bit of a stretch in a Universe that seemingly teems with life.

First off we have the capacity to wipe out all life on Earth (or at least 99% of it) with our current technology, something that would be unfathomable merely a couple of hundred years ago. So its not really far out enough to say that technology COULD eventually reach a certain point where it could happen to a whole galaxy, especially given that we could be talking about tens of thousands of years of development. Also I'm not saying all organic life in the universe I'm keeping it limited to the galaxy seeing as all of the ME lore is contained within the one galaxy.

As for what its based on, from what Leviathan said it seems plausible that its subservient races got close to developing such AI tech? I mean I'm not saying this is proven but its plausible enough to go along with the logic and not claim "OMGWTF MAKES NO SENSE YO DAWG ORGANICS SYNTHETICS" etc as many say on this board.

Though you raise an excellent point I hadn't considered, I can't work out why they intentionally sped up the harvests...that aspect of it doesn't make much sense. Dunno if anyone else on here has any insights that can explain that one?

Modifié par Yougotcarved1, 30 avril 2013 - 09:45 .

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

tickle267 wrote...
i posted the image sarcastically, should i remove it?

"The people who do not grasp the simple comment will never grasp the simple concept.  Hence wasting your breath"

I hear sarcasm translates well over an internet forum when someone posts a meme and nothing else. 

[Yougotcarved1]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Ah yes, another post in support of the Catalysts ignorant, racist, genocidal mantra. Marvelous game - fantastic community. Take a bow Mac, take a bow.

I'm not supporting him. I'm just saying its not nonsensical.

[The Night Mammoth]

Everyone understands this now, Eterna is strawmanning. Xzibit and the associated argument hasn't been used seriously in months.

People just have a hard time accepting this as the new reality because it doesn't match anything they've been told before.

It's a paradigm shift, and one pulled off with all the grace of a train going off the rails.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 30 avril 2013 - 10:05 .

[Yougotcarved1]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Everyone understands this now, Eterna is strawmanning. Xzibit and the associated argument hasn't been used seriously in months.

People just have a hard time accepting this as the new reality because it doesn't match anything they've been told before.

Oh ok, gotcha just felt like I was still seeing a lot of posts against this logic but yeah.

BTW is your avatar Beric Dondarrion vs The Hound? I've never watched the TV series but that looks exactly how I imagined that fight from reading the book

Modifié par Yougotcarved1, 30 avril 2013 - 10:05 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Indeed. Flaming sword and all.

[dreamgazer]

People don't like the fact that an all-powerful "antagonist" founded on such a fallacious position has Shepard caught by the short and curlies, demanding a solution for the entire galaxy in one fell swoop that claims his/her life in most situations. The logic is perfectly discernible.