53 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

I personally find Thaxy trickier than Firkraag in SCS. As you noted, Firkraag's breath weapon is easily foiled. Thaxy's, on the other hand, blinds with no save (short duration) and also drains four levels without a save- only offering a save v. breath to prevent losing additional levels. Blindness and level drain can both be foiled (True Sight and Jan Jansen's Spectroscopes in the case of blindness; NPP via item, spell, or innate immunity in the case of level drain) but your options are comparatively limited.

In addition to a more dangerous breath weapon, Thaxy enjoys unlimited access to invisibility (Create Shadows) and gets some better spells. I've yet to lose a character to either foe, but the battles with Thaxy tend to be longer and more resource intensive. It's worth noting however, that I make a point of keeping my character's save v spells low enough to make the -3 on Firkraag's lower fire resistance special ability and enter battle prepared to counter Remove Magic. Firkraag becomes noticeably more dangerous if you give him an opportunity to lower your fire resistance.

I'm sure you are aware that you have the option of completing the main quests and then returning for the dragons later on. That's the approach I typically take in the no reload challenge. Taking them down at midlevels is more sporting, however, and in a party game with reloads, I can understand why one might prefer to handle the encounters that way.

Anyhoo: Happy dragon hunting Goblinsky1!

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 10 mai 2013 - 10:05 .

[goblinsly1]

Well i tried fighting him a few times, brought him down to near death. I do belive i grew tired though and i am thinking of going to do shadow dragon quest. The only thing though ... when i come back to garren, i do want to tell him that the dragon is dead. Basicly his fire imunity is bad because most damage spells are fire ( at least the best ones ). Soo i end up using lightning wand ... also i thought i will be able to slow him, wont happen.

Also something strange happens, he uses minor spell thingy, the third level spell. Well as far as i know, it should be removed by spell thrust. Well i sent spell thrust, breach and secret word, doesnt do anything. First 2 or 3 direct spells still get bounced back at my weak aerie, killing her offcourse.

ps: i am not giving up, no way. Tomorrow when i am rested i will go shopping, i have like 80k. I will buy another lightning wand, maybe some other wands soo basicly everyone does something. Jaheira and minsc pretty much just stand around now, not much they can do. I got a good opening though, protected from fire, 4 big fire elementals and an aerial servant ...like i said, i am going shopping ... till then ... any idea why his spell thingy that bounces my spells back wont get dispelled ?

ps: melee wont do, i got chars with like 5 thaco .. all they can do is tank, they do get dispelled fast and then its run and rebuff.

ps2: minsc seems to be quite good with his +4 thaco green bow, thaco 0... i might actualy hit something with that ... at least with critical hit. But ... does mr f. need +2 or +3 weapons to be hit ? Wont be able to find any +3 arrows.

Modifié par goblinsly1, 10 mai 2013 - 10:52 .

[goblinsly1]

Well i be damned, he got hit by +1 arrows. Not just that, he even got hit by arrows of piercing with the mad +4 thaco they provide. With that, minsc got -3 thaco and a whooping +8 extra on every roll. If i give him a potion for thaco or something, he might actualy be able to dish out some damage. Little, but still. Oh mr f, ur gonna get some tomorrow !

[Gate70]

If Jaheira is doing nothing you could get her to memorise doom. If you can land that (& a malison) she can summon insects which work well in the standard battle - not so sure with SCS. Also not sure how a doomed/malisoned dragon is susceptible to nymph hold monster.

[Alesia_BH]

goblinsly1 wrote...

Well i tried fighting him a few times, brought him down to near death. I do belive i grew tired though

I'm sorry to hear that. 

With the Improved Staying Power for Dragons component installed, Firkraag has over 550 hitpoints. Given his Stoneskins and resistances, a battle with him can turn into an endurance test- especially when you have a moderately leveled party with middling THAC0s and a modest number of spell slots.

Soo i end up using lightning wand ... .

The Lightning Wand is a good idea, however, it would take quite a lot of charges to end him. He doesn't have lightning resistance, but his hitpoints alone imply the need for dozens of charges. If his Magic Resistance is left unmodified, that number more than doubles of course.

As a reminder, he is vulnerable to Magic Damage meaning Skull Traps and Holy Smites are useful against him. Magic Missles (particularly when loaded into Minor Sequencers) are helpful once the MST has been taken care of. 

also i thought i will be able to slow him, wont happen

He's immune to Slow and other movement effects via DRAGRING.ITM. 

While you can't Slow him, he has an unexceptional base movement rate and his Haste effect is dispellable. I often open battles against him with an Arrow of Dispelling. Once the arrow has landed, any item or spell granting a movement rate bonus will allow you to move faster than him and thus take his melee abilities out of play. This becomes more costly and labor intensive with a party of course, but it is manageable.

With a party you may also want to consider a Teleport Field based approach or, in the alternative, the use of an invulnerable tank (Defender+Cloak of the Sewers: Rat, Adventure Wear + Cloak of the Sewers: Rat, ProMW, etc). 

Also something strange happens, he uses minor spell thingy, the third level spell.

In my install he runs Minor Spell Turning, the level 5 spell.

Spell Thrust and Secret Word should both take care of that. And once the MST is down, he should be vulnerable to Breach. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to hear that he has a quirky version of MST though.

You may want to double check whether he is recasting MST after you've hit him with your Abjuration stuff.

Anyhoo: Best of luck. I hope you find an approach that suits your needs.


Best,

A.


NW: While the Standardize Dragon Immunities component grants Firkraag immunity to instakill effects, he doesn't appear to be immune to Polymorph Other. LRx3->Doom->Malison->Polymorph Other may still be a workable avenue against Firky. I'd be curious to hear if that works.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 mai 2013 - 01:03 .

[Alesia_BH]

Gate70 wrote...
Also not sure how a doomed/malisoned dragon is susceptible to nymph hold monster.

In my install he's immune to Hold Creautre Type (175) via DRAGRING.ITM.

[goblinsly1]

Mr. F. fell. I have to be honest, maybe i wasnt being fair to him, with going out of my place to buy items specific for him, but i really got mad by getting killed by him soo many times. Soo instead of buying 1 extra lightning wand, i bought 1 and i also got another one from my stash. Triple the wand, triple the fun. I didnt really have nerves to deal with his secret protection that reflects my spells back, soo i just got all my character some lightning protection via cleric spell. I protected my aerial servant from fire. Protected all my chars from fire. Had plenty more lightning/fire protection bottles and scrolls ( off to stash they go ). Even used potion of power on minsc, not that he needed it. The dragon went down fast. I hope what i did isnt considered cheating, if it helps ... my heart beat went up a LOT.

ps: i reloaded a few times to get 4 16HD fire elementals. They are quite sweet.

ps2: i just noticed something extremely funny. Big F. was hunting Jaheira down, he was right behind her, she wasnt hasted or protected. And the fire elemental made the killing blow. I didnt even realise how close this was ! What a great game this is !!

[goblinsly1]

2 pictures of me posing with the dead dragon. xD

[goblinsly1]

What do you think should be my next move ? Shadow lord or guarded compound ? I like the idea of guarded compound since most of the enemies there dont have some crazy imunities ... the mage offcourse is very hard but with my wands ... you can notice how i want to skip going to the lich and shadow dragon no matter what. I will have to kill them both before i go to spellhold though .. that is the deal. I only leave kangax and his 2 liches and rune for when i come back.

Modifié par goblinsly1, 12 mai 2013 - 12:05 .

[goblinsly1]

Well i killed them in my first try but i am a little mad now.



Haerdalis on his critical did 46 damage with melfs meteors. He has 2 weapons equipped soo what i am wondering is, how the hell, in million of fixpacks that came out soo far, was this skipped and not fixed ? Take damage from offhand weapon, i mean come on ?

I felt cheesy and cheaty when i killed him, didnt give me satisfaction, but i said allright, Sion used all his sequencer and other automatic defences, when haerdalis made the hit, there were other projectiles coming. Jaheira with 18.00 str and sling that uses str bonus would surely do him high damage. Soo even without this horrible cheese, he would drop maybe a second later.

[Alesia_BH]

goblinsly1 wrote...
He has 2 weapons equipped soo what i am wondering is, how the hell, in million of fixpacks that came out soo far, was this skipped and not fixed ? Take damage from offhand weapon, i mean come on ?

Due to technical reasons, there are some bugs that can't be addressed through conventional fixpacks. The offhand attacks that occur when magical ranged weapons are equipped fall into that category.

It may be possible to resolve the problem with an engine hack approach (ie.ToBEX), but my suspicion is that it is at the least a non-trivial problem.

Fortunately, there is a fairly straightforward work around: just make a point of unequipping your offhand weapon before casting Melf's Minute Meteors or other spells that generate magically created range weapons. It's a slight inconvenience to be sure, but worth it if the offhand attacks trouble you. 

Anyhoo: Congrats on your victory Goblinsly1!


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 12 mai 2013 - 05:21 .

[goblinsly1]

Thank you ! I just need someone to say that i didnt realy win with cheese or cheat, since as you can see, the wizard was basicly dead no matter what. But i do have some crazy sense of honor and i feel the same way i would feel if i ever cheated on college exam ...

Anyway now its time for shadow lord, no point putting off the inevitable. If i cant kill the dragon i can just come back and kill him later (right), killing him plays no roll in the quest, unlike the firkrag where u tell the child that u killed the beast. I should be able to kill him though, his breath is instant death (right ?) but i can easily revive my party members and the breathe only kills 1 member unlike red dragons breathe, right ? Its funny how the party suddenly became very strong, for instance ... minsc and jaheira with improved haste, enemies in guarded compound were sliced in manner of seconds ... i am also glad i am now using ALL my party members, not like on previous plays where i just used my mage/fighter and hid all other chars in the corner. This is prolly because robe of vecna is moved to TOB ... with it, the mage who has it is supperior and u tend to use him more then others.

Another thing .... i have been doing lots of prebuffing. I dont ever remember doing soo much of it, mainly because by the time i started my last buff, the first one has already ended. But there are many usefull spells that last for ages, like 1 turn per level, that is 20 minutes if you are level 20, which is crazy. For instance protection from evil is usefull, chaotic commands, etc. Basicly the only thing you have to be carefull during the battle is that when an enemy casts dispel magic, it will only hit 1 character. Since your characters use haste (also with boots they are crazy fast - is that cheese/cheat, haste + boots, very fast ?) its easy to run away from it. Its easy to rebuff 1 char and others keep the buffs. 

Modifié par goblinsly1, 12 mai 2013 - 06:56 .

[Grond0]

The death is level drain rather than instant death (though if enough levels are drained you will die). The breath does also have an area of effect, although it's smaller than for most dragons.

[Gate70]

Buffing is easy to do solo or with a Vecna'd mage and 5 buffers behind but not so easy with a party. It sounds like you're getting to terms with that and the party are working well as a result. Duration of each buff is critical and doing them in the right order makes a huge difference which you also seem to be doing.

Death ward is another long-laster that I'll put on the entire party when I have two casters with it.

[Alesia_BH]

Gate70 wrote...
Duration of each buff is critical and doing them in the right order makes a huge difference which you also seem to be doing.

I just wanted to highlight this point. My characters typically run a lengthy list of buffs in all subtantive fights. Casting in order of duration and layering in mission critical buffs last are keys to making that work.

While duration and priority are the most important variables when ordering buffs, casting time is another relevant consideration. When ordering spells of equal priority and duration, I typically layer in those with short casting times first. The logic here being that the quick casting spells will be easier to refresh during battle if the need arises (Armor of Faith is a good example here). Loading short duration, long casting time spells into sequencers and triggers for expedient in battle refresh is another move worth considering.

I'll also note that while it is awkward in party play, using Autopause: Round End helps since it lets you know when exactly your aura has cleared and consequently prevents you from wasting time between casts. You can end up squandering a surprising amount of buff time without it.  

Anyhoo: Happy buffing Goblinsly1!

Best,

A.
 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 12 mai 2013 - 08:54 .

[goblinsly1]

Thank you for all your replies !

I did enable to hit and saving throw rolls to be showed, i just love that info. But autopause of any kind will be left only for those impossible battles.

ps: i still didnt hear anyone that i killed Sion completely legit since he was out of sequencers and triggers and i was all around him. :3

ps2: how much is the system cheating with enemy mages ? Can they have for instance more then 2 spell triggers in the same battle or are they limited the same as a human player ? I know that they have different sequencer choices but i dont know if u can actualy see two of them in the same battle or do they only happen when you reload and they pick a different choice.

[Alesia_BH]

goblinsly1 wrote...
Thank you ! I just need someone to say that i didnt realy win with cheese or cheat 

In some player communities, it's common for people to criticize others for using "cheesy" tactics. We tend to take a more flexibile and accomodating approach.

The general attitude here is that it is up to the individual player to decide which tactics are in bounds for their purposes. We'll offer feedback if asked -and we're happy to discuss our norms of play- but we tend not to judge or criticize the choices of others. It's a single player game after all and what ultimately matters is whether the player is enjoying himself or herself. Heavy handed judgements seem misplaced from that view point.

With regards to off-hand attacks with magically created range weapons equipped, I personally make a point of unequipping offhand weapons before using MMMs and such, but I do forget or lazily over look it from time to time. And while I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with deliberately putting those off-hand attacks into play, I respect the right of others to do as they see fit.

The upshoot of all this is pretty simple: I you are happy with your victory, then I and others are happy for you. And if you ever find yourself wondering what you should or shouldn't allow, go with whatever will make you feel most satisfied with your accomplishment in the end: I and others will respect that even if we take a different approach ourselves.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 12 mai 2013 - 10:04 .

[goblinsly1]

Well said. As to my Sion problem, i just deleted all after battle saves, soo tomorrow, unless he mazes me in my sleep, i will kill him the "no-accident-cheese" way. )

Btw i was wondering ... i set scs2 to prebuff enemies as soon as i see them. Sadly it takes a few seconds sometimes for their defences to kick in. Must be the limitation of the IE since its the same with automatic defences of human player. But with this thing in mind, i always wait for enemy defences to kick in before i attack them. I do however start casting spells before ... spells like defences and summons but not spells directly cast on enemys. My point of view is if his standard buff is protection from 1-3 level spells its not fair to cast magic missile at him soo it will hit him just before his protections come up...since i do buffs in peace when no enemies are around, he should have a second or 2 of free time to cast it also.

Modifié par goblinsly1, 13 mai 2013 - 01:24 .

[goblinsly1]

[goblinsly1]

Well, the 2 liches in umar hills handed me something of mine on a plate. Correct me if i am wrong but .... after i finish the main umar quest ( killing shade lord ), i can still come back and kill the dragon and 2 liches ? I plan to kill them all now though ... i will just have to summon many critters and stay out of view with far sight. It might be a bit cheesy but hey, any level 11 char is welcome to go 1v1 with a million level lich. Dips on your cd player ! Strange thing ... they should be immune to 1-5 level spells. I am pretty sure that my cloudkill from wand damaged the lich. Strange since he sent cloudkill up my ass earlier and i doubt he would do it if it damaged him. Could it be that wand cloudkill is of a higher level then normal cloudkill, aka another of those strange bugs that somehow never got fixed ? If he is really immune only to spells level 1-5, and i have cleric and mage spells of that level ... i belive i could annoy the lich a bit, like interupt his spells with some level 6 area spells. Not that there are many but hey, i can play, can i.

[goblinsly1]

Well this blows, i dont like liches 1 bit. I tried casting on a single lich 3 secret words, 2 pierce magic, and then 3 breaches and all 3 bounces back onto my casters !!! Also for some reason he doesnt mind level 6 ( !!! ) spells like false down or those nice blades spinning around aerie. As far as my plan to use summons go, wont do any good. He summons 2 demons and my summons die. I keep my characters away because they get killed fast. I dont like this wish spell he uses 1 bit and i promise i will abuse it too when i get it.

ps: normal cloudkill doesnt touch lich. Cloudkill wand damages him. Needs to be fixed ! I wont abuse it though.

ps2: allright i read that spell turning is probably what is bouncing my breaches back, a change in scs2. If that is the only problem, that is ok, i can kill his spell turning either by spell spam or by some spells that remove it. He casts protection from abjuration, shouldnt secret word take care of this ? Or will it remove any spell imunity exept abjuration ? Because if waiting until his protections run out is the only way to win this ... well its not going to end well then. :/

ps3: i tried bolt of glory also, to my surprise, did nothing even after i removed spell turning. Didnt think it will be as easy as 2 bolts of glory and goodbye lich. I think i can pretty much forget about either removing his protections by my spells or to damage him by spells. Soo i guess its safe to return to my first plan, summon million critters and overrun him. His skellys and greater mumies are annoying and my fire elementals, aerial servants and skellys need some time to remove them. What i havent tried yet though is killing those critters with spells. Soo now when my summons attack them, i will bring hell upon them to kill them fast, then when demon or 2 comes, i will gang them and also cast breach on that scary 2 headed guy soo they finish him faster. After that i think i should somehow tire the lich i guess ...

Modifié par goblinsly1, 14 mai 2013 - 10:31 .

[goblinsly1]

Well i finaly killed 1 of the liches. I used my summons, used my spells, killed his skellys and mummies ... he summoned 2 demons. When all my summons died, the demons teleported to me and i killed them. Then i kept sending summons to the lich. Minsc died a few times. Might sound a bit cheesy but you know what, i just dont see any other way to kill that mean lich. Well i could use the cheesy wand of cloudkill but i wont. Oh and as u can see, i really humiliated him. Moved fire elemental away soo the stupid Ogre will make the final blow. Lich will be laughed at for months ...

Modifié par goblinsly1, 16 mai 2013 - 10:48 .

[goblinsly1]

Oh the humiliation !

[goblinsly1]

Shadow dragon was easy, and fun. Shadow lord was also easy and fun. It would seem things are a lot easier once you fight a lich.

A funny thing, cloak of stars, 6x +5 dart for 24 hours, you sleep another 2 times and that is 18 +5 darts. Quite good, since those things arent cheap, not to mention i never saw +5 darts. Also, i just found out you can sell them. Yep, 6 of them for 45gp. Not much but sure can pay for some food and such.

Its amazing how usefull some ranged amunition has been soo far. Sure damage is usualy quite low compared to melee but it is great when a) you wanna disturb a caster or when you just have to stay out of harms way. Shade lich for instance fell from haerdalis darts of wounding. He already recast protection from magical weapons but the poison killed him. Darts of stunning are also fun, and crossbow ammo is also great. Damn how much fun this playthrough has been, SCS2 is great and me playing fair and square is like a whole other game. Suddenly money is of concequence ( no sell/steal cheating ), experience is lower, robe of Vecna being moved to TOB is probably the best thing ever, i actualy use all my characters. And they are all great, i cant think of a better party ....

ps: i just have to lower my reputation, i will when i get a slayer, i dont want haerdalis and jaheira complain. I bought 2 reputation points in church because i didnt want to fight that harper girl that attacks you if your reputation is lower then 15 or 16.

[goblinsly1]

Hmm, i just came into underdark and Minsc has 2.700.000 experience, my level 13 berserker is already level 14 mage. I did basicly all the quests i could but still it feels a bit high ...