76 réponses à ce sujet

[Athenau]

Since the patch really shook up the game's arsenal, I thought it would be interesting to see what you all thought of the new and improved weaponry.  I'll start with my personal ranking.

Broken Tier:
M-11 Suppressor
Reegar Carbine
Venom Shotgun

These are weapons that are so overpowered that they trivialize the game.   Fun initially, but facerolling stuff gets boring pretty quick.

S-Tier:
M-90 Indra
Black Widow
N7 Valiant
M-11 Wraith
AT-12 Raider
N7 Pirahna
Cerberus Harrier
N7 Typhoon
M-7 Lancer
Adas
M-358 Talon
Acolyte
Arc Pistol
Blood Pack Punisher
N7 Hurricane

S-tier weapons are weapons that are outstanding in one particular area and good otherwise, or simply very good at everything.  There's a pretty wide selection here, which is nice to see.

A-Tier:
Javelin
M-99 Saber
N7 Valkyrie
M-96 Mattock
M-25 Hornet
Geth Plasma SMG
M-6 Carnifex
M-77 Paladin
N7 Eagle
Executioner Pistol
M-300 Claymore
N7 Crusader
Geth Plasma Shotgun

A-tier weapons are either outstanding in a niche role (a particular combination of class, powers, and/or loadout) or merely good all around.  Generally, I wouldn't bother with weapons below this tier unless you're doing a novelty run.

Some comments on particular weapons:

M-90 Indra:
This one deserves special mention.  Statistically, the first thing you notice about the Indra is the unmatched power/weight ratio, which makes it an awesome caster weapon.   However, that doesn't tell the whole story by half.  The next thing you need to know about the Indra is that it's a high-accuracy automatic weapon where firing doesn't degrade the spread, at all.  There's minor recoil, but actual accuracy is unaffected.  The second thing is that this is an automatic sniper rifle with a sniper rifle's high base chance to cause hit reactions (staggers and the like) and (on a related note, since ammo proc chance seems to be related to hit reactions) it's very good at proccing ammo powers.  So if you like tech combos, this weapon's for you.  The third thing is that it has a low power scope, so the scope actually becomes an advantage rather than a hindrance on most maps.  It also makes quickscoping to avoid the hipfire penalty less annoying.

All in all this is a beastly weapon.  It does high dps, is easy to use, is incredibly light, offers good crowd control and synergy with abilities, and it benefits immensely from the stacked weapon damage and headshot damage bonuses that the soldier/infiltrator get since it isn't affected much by shield gate.  A sniper-specced infiltrator can two-shot mooks out of cloak and four-shot shielded enemies with headshots.  If you can aim this weapon becomes an extraordinary infantry killer, better than any of the other sniper rifles.  

So yeah, it's good.  Don't sleep on it.

Black Widow:

The BW is as deadly as ever in this patch.  The Indra is better at killing infantry (shield gate hurts the BW a lot) but the BW is no slouch, and it offers sick boss killing dps with innate cover penetration (which means no damage penalty when shooting through walls).  The main drawbacks are the weight and the annoying high-power sniper scope. It's also one of the few weapons with extra synergy with tactical cloak--you can fire three shots in the cloak damage window, reload cancel and cloak should be ready again by the time you finish reloading, so technically you can get the cloak bonus for every shot.

Javelin:

The only sniper rifle that can one shot infantry with disruptor ammo (but only in the hands of a sniper-specced infiltrator with fortification).  That alone makes it an S-tier weapon, even accounting for the annoying charge-up and extreme weight.

M-300 Claymore:

Ahh, good old claymore.  It got a mild buff in the patch which puts its damage at a chart topping 1648 damage per shot at rank X.  It's a shotgun, so you can one-shot infantry all day through shield gate.  With smart choke has decent accuracy (slightly above average for shotguns), unmatched burst damage, and very good sustained dps (if you can reload cancel reliably).  It also has amazing synergy with weapon damage classes.  Soldiers get the claymore double-tap with adrenaline rush instant reload, and like the BW, the Claymore is one of those weapons that can get the cloak damage bonus on every shot (two reload-canceled shots in the cloak damage window and by the time you're ready to fire again cloak's recharged).

The downsides are the enormous weight and the reliance on reload canceling.  The latter makes this much better on the PC imo, on consoles I think it's A-tier at best.

M-11 Wraith:

On paper, this does almost everything better than the Claymore.  It retains the Claymore's ability to one-shot almost any infantry unit, with better accuracy and much lower weight.  In practice, I still prefer the Claymore on weapon classes.   The Claymore's higher damage means that fewer pellets need to land, which translates to being able to more reliably one shot things at range.  The Claymore also has better synergy with cloak and adrenaline rush.  Also the Claymore makes an AWESOME, FACEWRECKING SOUND every time you fire it whereas the Wraith sounds like a pop-gun.

Still, there's no denying this is a superior weapon, especially for casters.

M-358 Talon:

This is one of the game's premiere caster weapons, as pretty much any MP veteran knows.  Low weight, burst damage, dps, good accuracy, mitigates shield gate, this weapon does it all.   Also that tasty 1.5x multipler to shields/barriers.  Also, this is another weapon with perfect synergy with cloak.  You can fire all four shots under the cloak bonus, reload cancel, and have cloak off cooldown. Don't overlook it.

Acolyte:

Near weightless defense stripping (more like annhilation), staggers, and ammo procs.  A specialist weapon, but what it does it does VERY well.

M-99 Saber:

Makes an AWESOME FACEWRECKING SOUND (even more awesome than the Claymore) and a soldier with extended mags will never have to reload this weapon ever with the adrenaline rush instant reload.  The patch bumped its dps to a respectable level (766), it one shots mooks, two shots elites, staggers reliably, always procs ammo powers, and is incredibly ammo-efficient.   In the hands of a soldier I can even see this as S-tier still.

N7-Crusader:

Stats-wise this is an S-tier weapon, no questions asked.  Perfect accuracy, innate penetration, sick dps, ultra quick reload, good ROF, this weapon has it all.  But man, that firing delay just _ruins_ it.  It's just immensely frustrating to use in any sort of high pressure situation.  Maybe if you abuse staggers its worthwhile, so I'm leaving it in the A-tier.

Geth Plasma SMG:

This is the only game in town if you want a weightless (with ULM), high accuracy backup weapon with decent dps (~660 ramped up).  Also pretty good at proccing ammo effects.  I especially like it as a supplement to a Claymore.  Surprisingly good!

Arc Pistol
This is a hitscan weapon that hits as hard as a shotgun, can one shot shielded enemies, and has pistol accuracy (unlike the Talon) and access to the superior pistol mods.  The downside?  You need to charge it.  Charge weapons have some interesting mechanics, like the ability to fire on the move or to release a charged shot together with a power or release a shot without breaking cloak, but they can be awkward to use.  Easily S-tier if you can abuse right-hand advantage and charge safely, but getting into that position requires some work.

So, what do you guys think?  Anything I missed, or that should be shuffled around on the list?  It would be cool to get a community consensus on this.

Update #1:  Added Venom to broken tier, dropped Valkyrie to A-tier.

Update #2:  Added Typhoon to S-tier.

Update #3:  Moved Claymore to A-tier.  Added Arc Pistol to A-tier.

Update #4:  Moved Javelin to A-tier, bumped Arc Pistol to S-tier

Modifié par Athenau, 08 juin 2013 - 05:48 .

[RedCaesar97]

I only use a handful of weapons now, so I will have to take your word on it for most of them. I cannot recall ever having used the Indra or Acolyte for example.

I would probably put the Venom shotgun in the broken tier. Weapon-focused classes can really abuse it; I have seen people mention that they have one-shot a Banshee with it on a Soldier. Even caster-heavy classes can one-shot Phantoms with it.

I cannot really comment on the Black Widow, Paladin, or Wraith since I never buy those; too much money for too little gain in my opinion. But I am admittedly biased towards other weapons. I would agree with your assessment on the Black Widow as that seems to be the concensus among other opinions I have read from other players.

Saber is good; like the Viper, it can proc Disruptor Ammo on every shot so you can tech burst about once every 1.5-2 seconds using Concussive Shot. However you get this so late you really need to play on NG+ to get any real use out of it. I have never played NG+.

I cannot speak to the Collector's Edition weapons since they were never released as DLC to regular game owners.

Like you point out, Javelin is much better now but only on an Infiltrator. That would put it lower in rank in my opinion since only one class can use it to any real advantage. Other classes are better off using the other one-shot weapons.

And I would point out that you can put the Claymore on any class, but you may have to make sacrifices on weapon mods and/or power distribution on certain classes, such as the Sentinel and Engineer.

I have used Reegar Carbine briefly on an Engineer. I did not think it was that godly (I managed to run out of ammo with it on Mars), but I am sure it can be much better on the weapons-based classes, particularly with Incendiary Ammo. I imagine it could be insane on a Vanguard.

[known_hero]

Nice write up. What patch are we talking about, again? I'm a bit out of the loop these days.

I think you're sleeping on the Ex. Pistol. This gun is legit: capable of piercing through light cover, OHK headshots, an absolute powerhouse. Equip Incendiary ammo and this gun can kill enemies in one shot(plus burn effect). It's also a great Cyro explosion primer. Seriously, this is one of my favorite weapons in both SP and MP. It's the 2nd best pistol in the game, IMO.

[Wulfram]

I really love the Viper. I slap on some sniper slowdown to allow me to get consistent headshots, then it can kill pretty much everything except bosses in 2 shots, while allowing a great rate of fire and really fast reloads. And proccing some cryo-ammo if I miss the headshot helps. And it's light, too.

[godlike13]

Ya, the Venom shotgun is another gun in the broken tier in SP. That thing is ridiculous.

Great patch though. For the most part all my favorite guns just got better, while guns like the Pirahna, Typhoon, and the Blood Pack Punisher remained awesome.

Sucks for the Paladin and the Falcon though. 

Modifié par godlike13, 01 mai 2013 - 01:53 .

[capn233]

I don't have the pack with it, but Typhoon is apparently pretty powerful in SP, and supposedly extremely good for the squad. Also the Venom is probably up there.

As for what you have, I agree on Suppressor. I have never used the Reegar in SP, but it can't be worse than in MP so...

I disagree on Valkyrie. It is maybe A class, but not S. I don't think it does anything a whole lot better than many other weapons that you can get.

Ditto on Valiant. With the Black Widow's buff to the moon it is relatively less useful on weapons classes, and it doesn't make too much sense on casters either, IMO.

Which leads into the Indra... it is a good weapon but again I don't understand why exactly I want a light auto-SR for a caster. It used to be a good choice on Soldier w/ IEB (and probably still is), or maybe a Marksman Infiltrator w/ Vega... Seems ultra-niche and even then there are other alternatives that would work as well. I would move it down into the good tier probably.

Adas is borderline broken tier probably.

Agree on Wraith, it is extremely good in SP now. Probably too good really.

Claymore is the Claymore and is at least pretty balanced overall (2.0 encumbrance). I would be tempted to even consider bumping it down though considering power creep, even if it has high stat damage. There is not a good way to reload cancel in SP as compared to MP medigel. All of the SP ways are fairly cheesy with their requirements (like no grenades left, or you can hope it doesn't burn your medigel for no reason...).

I think the Executioner is overrated in MP a bit. I don't have it in SP though.

[Athenau]

@RedCaesar97: Agreed on the Javelin, by my own criteria it belongs in A-tier since it only works really well with one particular setup.

@Known_Hero: I played quite a bit with the Executioner, and while I really like it, I can't really justify a single-shot single-bullet weapon being S-tier while 100% shield gate exists.

@Godlike13: Agreed, Venom is definitely broken tier.

@Capn233: On a weapon damage class (especially the Infiltrator) the Indra is the best SR for killing infantry since it doesn't care about shield gate (and it's still damn good at killing bosses too). On a caster class it's simply a high dps, high accuracy, low weight, easy to handle weapon--the fact that it's an automatic SR is mostly an afterthought. I've been playing with it a lot and can attest to the fact that it's just really good at doing everything.

Agreed on the Valkyrie--paper dps, accuracy and weight look S-tier worthy, but I don't like the way it handles in-game. Accuracy degrades too heavily while firing and the recoil is annoying out of cover. Bumping this down to A-tier.

Disagree somewhat on the Valiant. It's got better sustained dps, lower weight, and is arguably better at killing infantry than the BW (faster ROF, both weapons 1-shot mooks and 2-shot elites, but the BW can do it with bodyshots). Zero recoil is nice too. If the BW is better, it's not by enough to knock the Valiant down a tier IMO.

Disagree that reload canceling is a problem for the Claymore in SP, at least for the classes you want to put it on (soldier and infiltrator). SP stickies are terrible, so putting a throwaway point there and spamming grenades at the beginning of the mission so you can empty grenade cancel works fine. SP frags are less terrible, but IMO buffed concussive shot is better, so you can do the same thing there without losing anything.

The only exception is if you want to use a grenade power as your bonus power because of the shared grenade pool, but I wasn't terribly impressed by the selection in SP (though I know you're a fan of inferno grenades).

Modifié par Athenau, 01 mai 2013 - 10:53 .

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau wrote...
Agreed on the Valkyrie--paper dps, accuracy and weight look S-tier worthy, but I don't like the way it handles in-game. Accuracy degrades too heavily while firing and the recoil is annoying out of cover. Bumping this down to A-tier.

I have been using the Valkyrie on an Adept. I do not find the recoil bad at all, but then I have been using a stability mod on it so maybe that helps? The problem with the Valkyrie is that it really does nothing that the Vindicator cannot already do. I do not notice much difference between the two guns other than the number of shots.


As for reload-cancelling, you can also use a power that is on cooldown. You can use grenades like you said, but occassionally you may run over a spare grenade and end up chucking a grenade instead of reload-cancelling. Of course, you may not have a power on cooldown, or no grenades, which leaves you without a more reliable method to reload-cancel.

You can use the "do-everything button" to reload-cancel but that can cause all sorts of other problems like unintended rolling or cover docking.

I miss being able to use melee to reload-cancel like you could in Mass Effect 2. 

[Athenau]

The Valkyrie has much higher dps than the Vindicator, so much so that they aren't really comparable. It's surprising that you don't notice much of a difference--though maybe that's because you're only using gunfire to finish off that last sliver of health after your biotic explosions?

Also, I've never been able to get the "power on cooldown" reload-cancel method to work. Is this a console only thing (PC player here)? I find grenade canceling works fine as long as you avoid picking up spare grenades, or use them immediately when you acquire them. The biggest problem with grenade canceling is that it works best on classes with bad grenades. If you actually want to use your 'nades you're kinda screwed.

[capn233]

I don't think power on CD works on PC, or at least it didn't when I tried it to my recollection. Just the no grenade trick (which is probably the best in SP on PC) and the medigel (mine gets bugged half the time and burns medigel for no reason, putting me in a long animation).

Back to the guns.

Valiant - the problem is damage splits and how it obtains the better sustained DPS. It gets the good DPS numbers from fast reload. On an infiltrator this is relevant because it doesn't harmonize with cloak cycles nearly as well as Black Widow. I tested them under the old regime and against an Atlas (Level V on both), time to kill wasn't really different because you have to fire Valiant in between cycles to hit max sustained DPS. Black Widow runs near peak reloading in between cycles.

On Soldier with longer damage duration, Valiant might be a little better for the largest targets. I haven't tested them. But then again ARush free reload means you get a nice spike of damage which should be sufficient to kill a Brute on Insanity (it was before the buff...).

There is also the issue of ammo efficiency and capacity... I would say BW wins there. Maybe not by a mile, but it is better.

For mook killing, actual optimum speed is not very different, although BW is probably actually more forgiving on several characters because you can go with the body shots.

Now as for the Indra, the problem I have with it is that it is really an AR in the SR class, and as such the only real point is sniper bonus in Tac Cloak. I don't need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster. If I want DPS I could go Hurricane or Punisher, both of which weigh a good deal less than Indra. And for precision range I think various pistols make more sense since you can do burst damage or kill mooks in one or two shots and be able to cast powers at will (Paladin, Executioner, dare I say Suppressor).

On a Soldier I am even less enamored with Indra than I was back when RudyLis and would discuss it. If you want to go IEB it is probably the best SR for that, but then again why am I going SR for IEB anyway? Punisher, Hurricane, Harrier, GPR, and even Revenant are going to be more effective against large targets. Against mooks, it sort of depends on range. And you have to choose how you want to damage them because any one-shot kill weapon will beat it regardless of ammo.

I actually think Claymore works on any class in SP and in some ways makes more sense on various casters than on an Infiltrator. Because you can potentially power reload it with some of them. You just have to decide if the CD penalties are worth it (largely it is not because of the Wraith and Raider).

I forgot to mention Crusader before. Overweight with a whonky trigger. But I think it can stay in A class.

My biggest gripe with Saber is you don't get it until end game (also there are reports that if you have Citadel installed picking it up causes Miranda to die regardless of plot decisions... haven't personally verified).

Valkyrie does have better DPS than Vindicator... problem is that you almost have to go Mattock button mash to do it, and importantly that is somewhat lost in SP given the hordes of CATs you fight. Vindicator is a lot lighter.

[RedCaesar97]

Athenau wrote...
Also, I've never been able to get the "power on cooldown" reload-cancel method to work. Is this a console only thing (PC player here)?

I just tried it on PC, and it does not work so I guess it is a console-only thing.

Athenau wrote...
The Valkyrie has much higher dps than the Vindicator, so much so that they aren't really comparable. It's surprising that you don't notice much of a difference--though maybe that's because you're only using gunfire to finish off that last sliver of health after your biotic explosions?

I like to shoot between cooldowns so I am still firing a lot, and I just do not notice that big of a difference. I guess it is because biotic explosions are doing most of the killing so i do not notice any weapon damage difference. I will have to try it again and see if I can notice a difference.

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...

Now as for the Indra, the problem I have with it is that it is really an AR in the SR class, and as such the only real point is sniper bonus in Tac Cloak. I don't need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster. If I want DPS I could go Hurricane or Punisher, both of which weigh a good deal less than Indra. And for precision range I think various pistols make more sense since you can do burst damage or kill mooks in one or two shots and be able to cast powers at will (Paladin, Executioner, dare I say Suppressor).

Don't you dare say that! My Sabotage-Overload-Incinerate Engineer despises the Supressor. Being forced to use a Supressor I in the Citadel DLC is a pain is the rear. You can just barely tech burst with Sabotage > Overload. I think the Supressor I outweights the Claymore V. Maybe it gets better if you level it up?

I also had a little trouble with it on my Soldier who did not have maximum weight capacity so Adrenaline Rush also took a long time to cool down. 

My biggest gripe with Saber is you don't get it until end game (also there are reports that if you have Citadel installed picking it up causes Miranda to die regardless of plot decisions... haven't personally verified).

I think I have a character close to that part. I may be able to test it out and see.

[godlike13]

capn233 wrote...
Valiant - the problem is damage splits and how it obtains the better sustained DPS. It gets the good DPS numbers from fast reload. On an infiltrator this is relevant because it doesn't harmonize with cloak cycles nearly as well as Black Widow. I tested them under the old regime and against an Atlas (Level V on both), time to kill wasn't really different because you have to fire Valiant in between cycles to hit max sustained DPS. Black Widow runs near peak reloading in between cycles.

On Soldier with longer damage duration, Valiant might be a little better for the largest targets. I haven't tested them. But then again ARush free reload means you get a nice spike of damage which should be sufficient to kill a Brute on Insanity (it was before the buff...).

There is also the issue of ammo efficiency and capacity... I would say BW wins there. Maybe not by a mile, but it is better.

For mook killing, actual optimum speed is not very different, although BW is probably actually more forgiving on several characters because you can go with the body shots.

The Black Widow is more powerful than the Valiant, but it also weighs double that of the Valiant. The Valiant is a Sniper for caster classes, or weapon classes the like to use powers.

Im not sure how it doesn't make sense on casters. For casters who want to snipe, there isn't really that many options for powerful light snipers.

capn233 wrote...
Now as for the Indra, the problem I have with it is that it is really an AR in the SR class, and as such the only real point is sniper bonus in Tac Cloak. I don't need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster. If I want DPS I could go Hurricane or Punisher, both of which weigh a good deal less than Indra. And for precision range I think various pistols make more sense since you can do burst damage or kill mooks in one or two shots and be able to cast powers at will (Paladin, Executioner, dare I say Suppressor).

On a Soldier I am even less enamored with Indra than I was back when RudyLis and would discuss it. If you want to go IEB it is probably the best SR for that, but then again why am I going SR for IEB anyway? Punisher, Hurricane, Harrier, GPR, and even Revenant are going to be more effective against large targets. Against mooks, it sort of depends on range. And you have to choose how you want to damage them because any one-shot kill weapon will beat it regardless of ammo.

The Indra is an AR in the SR class, and it isn't. As u say its a precision sustained fire weapon, it has the sustained fire of an AR but the precision of a SR, and while u might not need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster it isn't really about what one needs, but how one wants to play. And the Indra offers the option of a precision sustained fire weapon for those looking for that type of thing.

If one wants to send rapid accurate DPS at long rang, the Indra does that better then any other. The Punisher and Hurricane can not come close the range and accuracy of the Indra. Its not really even fair to compare the Indra to the Punisher and Hurricane IMO. Same thing goes for the Revenant. The GPR is a BB gun, the Indra far out damages it. The Harrier though, ya that could do it. Its a little heavier, but it can do what the Indra does. Between those two it comes down to the scope. Honestly i think Harrier might be a contender for Broken in SP.

Modifié par godlike13, 02 mai 2013 - 02:08 .

[godlike13]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Now as for the Indra, the problem I have with it is that it is really an AR in the SR class, and as such the only real point is sniper bonus in Tac Cloak. I don't need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster. If I want DPS I could go Hurricane or Punisher, both of which weigh a good deal less than Indra. And for precision range I think various pistols make more sense since you can do burst damage or kill mooks in one or two shots and be able to cast powers at will (Paladin, Executioner, dare I say Suppressor).

Don't you dare say that! My Sabotage-Overload-Incinerate Engineer despises the Supressor. Being forced to use a Supressor I in the Citadel DLC is a pain is the rear. You can just barely tech burst with Sabotage > Overload. I think the Supressor I outweights the Claymore V. Maybe it gets better if you level it up?

I also had a little trouble with it on my Soldier who did not have maximum weight capacity so Adrenaline Rush also took a long time to cool down. 

My biggest gripe with Saber is you don't get it until end game (also there are reports that if you have Citadel installed picking it up causes Miranda to die regardless of plot decisions... haven't personally verified).

I think I have a character close to that part. I may be able to test it out and see.

Claymore X outweighs the Suppressor I. The Suppressor is one of the heavier pistols, but its not that heavy.

[RedCaesar97]

godlike13 wrote...
Claymore X outweighs the Suppressor I. The Suppressor is one of the heavier pistols, but its not that heavy. 

Okay, I just loaded my Engineer save and checked. The Suppressor I was showing +200% weapon weight and my cooldowns were very fast as expected.

HOWEVER, using the Suppressor I at the beginning of the Citadel DLC when you are forced to use it killed my cooldowns. This begs the question: is the weapon weight bonus not being applied--or not applied as expected--in that part of the Citadel DLC because you are not wearing armor?

I should have another Engineer save where I can test this or at least look at the results, because I remember my cooldowns taking a huge hit when I used the Suppressor I in that section. The Engineer tends to rely heavily on cooldowns since the window for detonating tech bursts and fire explosions is rather short (3-3.5 seconds after priming).

[darkchaosbunny]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

capn233 wrote...
My biggest gripe with Saber is you don't get it until end game (also there are reports that if you have Citadel installed picking it up causes Miranda to die regardless of plot decisions... haven't personally verified).

I think I have a character close to that part. I may be able to test it out and see.

Will you post here or on your channel? I waiting till June or a sale on Omega to pick the Omega and Citadel DLCs for a full playthrough and that sounds like it may ruin my paramour achievement as I didn't get that one yet.

I did a quick google and all I found was this: http://answers.ea.co...ing/td-p/894640

Not sure how reliable that is though.

Modifié par darkchaosbunny, 02 mai 2013 - 03:02 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I picked up the Saber under all those conditions and Miranda lived. She was my romance option, so i dunno if that makes a difference or not.

Since the Saber is at Sanctuary, just make sure you use a charm/intimidate on Miri's dad so he doesn't get to shoot her during the end scene. See if that works.

[spockjedi]

@OP
I agree with your comments on particular weapons.
Some builds for those who want to avoid the "Heavy Pistol + SMG combo" and still keep high recharge bonuses. No Ultralight materials except for the SMGs:

Infiltrator: Black Widow V + Ul. SGM V                  +123%
Vanguard: Wraith V + Ul. SGM V + Predator V    +196%
Sentinel: Particle Rifle V                                         +172%
Adept: Harrier V + Ul. SGM V                                  +178%
Engineer: Indra V + Phalanx V                               +194%

Some notes:
- All builds above have the maximum weight capacity for the class.
- My favorites SMGs are the Punisher and the Locust, but you're free to choose the model since it doesn't make much difference in weight if you use a Level V SMG Ultralight Materials mod.
- I missed the Particle Rifle. It's a very powerful weapon, and can be the sole weapon for Sentinels and Soldiers if modded with the Magazine Upgrade and the Piercing Mod.
- The other advantage of the Indra is that you can pair it with some Heavy Pistols (Phalanx, Predator) and still keep a bonus of almost 200% with low-capacity classes!

Modifié par spockjedi, 03 mai 2013 - 07:05 .

[RedCaesar97]

darkchaosbunny wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

capn233 wrote...
My biggest gripe with Saber is you don't get it until end game (also there are reports that if you have Citadel installed picking it up causes Miranda to die regardless of plot decisions... haven't personally verified).

I think I have a character close to that part. I may be able to test it out and see.

Will you post here or on your channel?

I will post here for sure. If it is an actual bug, I will record it and post it on YouTube as well.

[capn233]

godlike13 wrote...

The Black Widow is more powerful than the Valiant, but it also weighs double that of the Valiant. The Valiant is a Sniper for caster classes, or weapon classes the like to use powers.

Im not sure how it doesn't make sense on casters. For casters who want to snipe, there isn't really that many options for powerful light snipers.

It doesn't make sense on casters because they should use a pistol or SMG or any other various gun that does at least as much DPS while having less of a cooldown penalty.  For instance, you can run Paladin and Punisher together for about the same weight as the Valiant...

The Indra is an AR in the SR class, and it isn't. As u say its a precision sustained fire weapon, it has the sustained fire of an AR but the precision of a SR, and while u might not need a precision sustained fire weapon on a caster it isn't really about what one needs, but how one wants to play. And the Indra offers the option of a precision sustained fire weapon for those looking for that type of thing.

A precision sustained fire weapon is a role that isn't needed whatsoever.  The point is not to rank these guns on fun or what might be novel to use one time.  You aren't getting the job done with the Indra any better than with a bunch of other weapons because it doesn't synergize as well with any power skillset on any class.

If one wants to send rapid accurate DPS at long rang, the Indra does that better then any other. The Punisher and Hurricane can not come close the range and accuracy of the Indra. Its not really even fair to compare the Indra to the Punisher and Hurricane IMO. Same thing goes for the Revenant. The GPR is a BB gun, the Indra far out damages it. The Harrier though, ya that could do it. Its a little heavier, but it can do what the Indra does. Between those two it comes down to the scope. Honestly i think Harrier might be a contender for Broken in SP.

You never need accurate DPS at long range for a couple reason.  Chief among them is lack of maps that actually can support a ranged engagement, and importantly the only tagets that benefit from extra paper DPS are large enough to be hit by something like Punisher or Hurricane at typical ranges anyway.

As for specific examples, you are ignoring the bit about Incendiary Explosive Burst ammo and how that entire section of discussion was about the Soldier.  Rate of fire is of huge importance when talking about damage with IEB ammo.  The Indra is not going to far outdamage GPR with IEB because GPR will be setting explosive bursts off much more frequently  It isn't going to kill any large target any faster than any of the examples I provided in any engagement in SP really.

And although it might be easier to hit basics at range with than some of the above examples, it isn't close to being the best as a ranged mook killer.  That goes to any of the weapons that can kill mooks at range with one shot or two.  Saber, Paladin, etc.  Wraith even.

Harrier may be close to broken tier, but that is why it belongs in S.  The issue with Indra is that it tries to be decent in various roles where it is outclassed by other weapons, and is arguably the best at a niche that doesn't matter.

Modifié par capn233, 02 mai 2013 - 03:28 .

[Ledgend1221]

Where is the Typhoon?

[MadCat221]

I think that the Disciple would qualify as an A-tier, personally. It's a good all-around shottie. Weighs less than the entry-level shotties (katana, scimitar, eviscerator), does a smidge less damage than the Eviscerator, and weighs really light. Its only real shortfall is that its in-gun ammo is a bit short, but is still more than most other "heavier" shotties. It's good to toss in if you want a shotty just in case things get too close (because it's light), or because you're going for a power-heavy load and are optimizing for cooldown but still want to rip things up (again because it's light). The charge-happy vanguard's weapon of choice IMO.

[RedCaesar97]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Where is the Typhoon?

If I am not mistaken, the single player Typhoon suffers from a bug where the accuracy decreases as you level it up (instead of increasing the accuracy as it is supposed to). This means that the Typhoon actually gets worse as you level it up instead of getting better. And unlike some multiplayer kits, you tend to lack the powers or passives that would make the Typhoon better.

The Typhoon is incredible on squadmates, though. Not sure why, but I suspect it is because the ramp-up multiplier is applied incorrectly on squadmates. I have seen squadmates one-shot Banshees in the Armax Arsenal Arena (AAA) with the Typhoon. I should note that AAA enemies do not appear to be equivalent to their regular game enemy counterparts.

[capn233]

Does have the recoil bug. But from my recollection of the weapon in MP while it was bugged there, it should still make A tier easily, IMO.

This stuff is all a bit academic though.

[Athenau]

And although it might be easier to hit basics at range with than some of the above examples, it isn't close to being the best as a ranged mook killer. That goes to any of the weapons that can kill mooks at range with one shot or two. Saber, Paladin, etc. Wraith even.

This isn't true. In the hands of the Infiltrator the Indra is the best ranged infantry killer. 4 headshots to kill @500 rpm >> 2 shots from a semiauto@60-80 RPM. Not to mention the much larger mag. The beauty of the Indra is that all that stacked weapon damage and headshot damage from skills and gear is still useful against infantry, where as the semi-auto's run up against the shield gate wall.

I haven't run the numbers for Soldier with IEB, but I suspect the Indra will come out on top there as well.

As for specific examples, you are ignoring the bit about Incendiary Explosive Burst ammo and how that entire section of discussion was about the Soldier. Rate of fire is of huge importance when talking about damage with IEB ammo. The Indra is not going to far outdamage GPR with IEB because GPR will be setting explosive bursts off much more frequently It isn't going to kill any large target any faster than any of the examples I provided in any engagement in SP really.

Well, it'll certainly fare better against big targets than the GPR, since the GPR's base damage is crap. The bullet spam weapons (Punisher, Hurricane, Revenant) are better boss killers (though there is that 1.4x boss headshot multiplier to consider which benefits accurate weapons) but the Indra is better than all of those against infantry.

Also while the Valiant is probably not a great caster weapon due to the weight, it's superior to the BW on a soldier since unlike the infiltrator the soldier doesn't have any particular synergy with the BW (adrenaline rush instant reload gives a mild sustained dps bump, but nothing spectacular) and the soldier cares about weight more than the infiltrator.  I still haven't seen a convincing argument for dropping it to A-tier.

The claymore...I'm wavering on whether to drop this down to A tier now.  So much depends on how limiting you find the SP reload cancel methods.   I find empty-grenade canceling fine on the weapon classes since their grenades are bad anyway...but others might disagree.  Anyone else care to chime on this?

Modifié par Athenau, 02 mai 2013 - 11:14 .