76 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

nuge99 wrote...

What about the M-27 Scimtar

Not that good unless you have enough weapon damage bonuses and a good ammo power to back it up. The Pirahna (DLC weapon) trumps the Scimitar in damage and fire rate, and I think reload speed as well.

The Vanguard can make good use of the Scimitar, and possibly the Soldier and Infiltrator as well. The caster-oriented classes are not so good with it.

[capn233]

billpickles wrote...

I do have the Harrier, so yeah, I guess that's an option. But I could also argue that the BPP fills roughly the same role. And in fairness, I've been using the BPP quite a bit in the first several missions, which may become less frequent after I can afford the BW

I agree that in most engagements the BPP is as useful as the Harrier and puts out DPS.  And deals with armor effectively.  It's also a lot lighter, which is important on all the other classes. I named Harrier only to compare something directly to Indra.  Precision automatic fire.  It is not quite as precise, but then again you don't have to look through a scope for max damage, and deal with scope slow down if you find that irritating.

Also if you don't lock into SR's early you can only go to 4 on TacCloak then level up Sabotage and Incinerate earlier, which overall I think works out better than focusing on an SR/DPS build with Indra and lower rank powers out of TacCloak.  If you are already at Level 50 then you can do anything you want.

So...in closing...I think my point is that while I overall agree with you on the Indra being significantly inferior to the Black Widow, it's still the best option until you can piece together $250K IF (and only if) you want to stick to snipers. Since I do in this case, the Indra is the choice for a little while.

I do not think the Indra is a bad weapon.  It is good power to weight wise.  I just don't think it really belongs in S class.  It only really shines on an Infiltrator IMO.  It got a pretty substantial boost from the patch, but so did many other guns (Wraith, Hurricane), and there have been a lot of powerful DLC guns released.

Modifié par capn233, 17 mai 2013 - 03:14 .

[Cmpunker13]

Typhoon is broken to me; even at lvl I it basically destroy everything in sight.

Two questions:
1- to bypass the shield gate with a Javelin infiltrator do I need fortification?
2- Are the Valkyrie and Saber good for tech burst? I've always played with fast paced weapons (Hornet & Blood pack punisher) to proc fire explosions, so I'm not sure what kind of weapon is a better option for tech bursts.
Thanks in advance.

Modifié par Cmpunker13, 29 mai 2013 - 10:19 .

[RedCaesar97]

Cmpunker13 wrote...

Typhoon is broken to me; even at lvl I it basically destroy everything in sight.

Two questions:
1- to bypass the shield gate with a Javelin infiltrator do I need fortification?
2- Are the Valkyrie and Saber good for tech burst? I've always played with fast paced weapons (Hornet & Blood pack punisher) to proc fire explosions, so I'm not sure what kind of weapon is a better option for tech bursts.
Thanks in advance.

1. According to Athenau, yes you need Fortification, plus a very specific setup with an Infiltrator.
2. For Tech Burts, I found the Saber to be quite good with Disruptor Rounds, as it seemed to proc tech bursts on every single shot (or very close to every single shot). Not sure about the Valkyrie.

[Athenau]

So yeah, after spending a lot of quality time (both SP and MP) with the Arc Pistol, I'm bumping this thing to S-class. It is seriously beastly and the charge-up isn't enough of a liability to outweigh that.

I'll try posting a vid of what I mean soon.

Modifié par Athenau, 08 juin 2013 - 05:50 .

[Athenau]

And here's that arc pistol footage I promised.

[capn233]

The charge is the best feature since it fires 3 projectiles when charged. So shieldgate bypass for SP.

Full charge is 1 second (if you have 3 or more shots remaining in clip) giving 3 "shots" all at 3x damage (which means essentially 9x damage).

Modifié par capn233, 10 juin 2013 - 04:34 .

[Athenau]

Yep, by "charge being a liability" I meant that they could technically have implemented it as firing three shots per trigger pull which would make it easier to use, though then you don't get the cool dual firing modes (the rapid fire is actually handy, though most of the time you want to use the charge shot).

Also charge weapons let you do awesome John Woo moves like headshotting people while combat rolling

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

Also charge weapons let you do awesome John Woo moves like headshotting people while combat rolling

There aren't enough pigeons for it to be John Woo like.

"You're one hard boiled Spectre!"

edit: actually I guess there might be pigeons on the Presidium after all...

Modifié par capn233, 10 juin 2013 - 10:22 .

[billpickles]

I've personally never been a fan of the charge weapons, though I will say I find the Arc Pistol to be the easiest to use among them.

That said, judging weapons by how they work on an Infiltrator wearing the Cerberus Nightmare Armor isn't exactly a fair test of their overall power or utility.

[Athenau]

You can certainly evaluate relative power whether you use it on an infiltrator or an adept. An infiltrator or a soldier is a good starting point to judge top end potential. I can't speak to how well it works on power-based classes yet, except to say that it does everything the Paladin or Carnifex can do but better, and the consensus is that those are excellent caster weapons.

BTW Cerberus Nightmare armor isn't really anything special as far as damage goes. You can get up to 50% weapon damage from the individual armor pieces while the Nightmare armor only has 20% WD and 20% headshot damage.

Modifié par Athenau, 11 juin 2013 - 02:19 .

[WillieStyle]

Athenau wrote...

You can certainly evaluate relative power whether you use it on an infiltrator or an adept. An infiltrator or a soldier is a good starting point to judge top end potential.

Not to suggest that your test is invalid, but using an Infiltrator will tend to over-value guns with a high burst damage such as the claymore and javelin.  Using an infiltrator will also cause one to underestimate the problems with guns with low ammo capacity because Tactical Cloak improves ammo efficiency.

[WillieStyle]

Does anyone know of a source with updated single player weapon stats? Some weapons like the suppressor and the punisher do a lot more damage in single player than multiplayer so the dps charts I've found are unreliable.

[RedCaesar97]

WillieStyle wrote...

Athenau wrote...

You can certainly evaluate relative power whether you use it on an infiltrator or an adept. An infiltrator or a soldier is a good starting point to judge top end potential.

Not to suggest that your test is invalid, but using an Infiltrator will tend to over-value guns with a high burst damage such as the claymore and javelin.  Using an infiltrator will also cause one to underestimate the problems with guns with low ammo capacity because Tactical Cloak improves ammo efficiency.

First, props to Athenau for the tests.

Second, I will agree somewhat with WillieStyle in that the Infiltrator--as well as the Soldier and Vanguard--can make some guns seem a whole lot better than they are. The Reegar is insanely good in the hands of a Vanguard for example, but I do not find it all that great in the hands of an Engineer for example.

But then I am not all that skilled to begin with so my opinion may be somewhat invalidated.

[Athenau]

Well the Reegar is pretty much broken everywhere, not just on a Vanguard (Vanguard just has the luxury of using it as their only weapon because lolcharge).

I can dust off my soldier and post some arc pistols vids with him too, if you'd like?

[capn233]

IMO you don't need to retest the Arc Pistol. I agree that Soldier and Infiltrator skew some weapons, but I disagree that they overestimate the burst weapons. Quite the opposite, largely ARush and TacCloak make some of the rapid fire weapons seem more valuable because of the duration of the damage boost. Soldier also further boosts rapid fire weapons with IEB, and Infiltrator skews sniper rifles with extra dynamic damage bonuses (TacCloak and passive SR damage evos... hence Indra controversy ). Both are also good with single shot weapons for different reasons (TacCloak bonus, 2% cloak "utility," and ARush instant reload).

On all the other classes (except maybe Vanguard), burst damage weapons are at least as preferable to me as "dps" weapons because "shoot-cast-shoot" is an efficient way through the game. On Sentinel, for example, Wraith will one-shot practically every humanoid target you encounter in standard missions, except the highest tier, and allows you to detonate combos in between shots. Same with the other casters really. On the largest targets you want whatever has good sustained dps because you won't kill them in a shoot-cast-shoot cycle, so you can afford to go with a weapon that stretches the damage out over a longer time.

Vanguard would be similar except that IEB also favors rapid fire weapons or shotguns, so he has a little more leeway in weapon selection (combat class, so that makes sense).

[Athenau]

^^ That's a pretty good summary.

In other news, I can confirm that the Typhoon has the pre-nerf 2x ramp up multiplier, so it's going to stay in S-tier for now (really have to try it out on my soldier).

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

In other news, I can confirm that the Typhoon has the pre-nerf 2x ramp up multiplier, so it's going to stay in S-tier for now (really have to try it out on my soldier).

Huh?

I remember when Killer Angel made a patch for the DLC Typhoon, he posted what was supposedly the DLC values and it showed 1.5x.

I don't have that weapon DLC or I would look at it myself.

[Athenau]

Oh whoops, you're right. I transposed the type and the value. It is 1.5, not 2:

"damage": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "(X=44.4,Y=55.5)"
}
],
"damagemultiplier": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "1.5f"
}
],

On the other hand it still has the bugged recoil:

      "zoomrecoil": [        {          "Type": 2,          "Value": "(X=0.21,y=1.15)"        }      ]    },

(The y-values are the value at level 10).  So yeah, worst of both worlds.  Terrible.

Modifié par Athenau, 17 juin 2013 - 11:39 .

[capn233]

Even with 1.5x it is still deadly. Although of course I am going from my MP experience. In SP with lower HP enemies it should still be fine, especially if it has IEB on it. At least on PC you can mouse down to control the recoil, or go Stability. Bad thing is no Sheps have stability bonus in passive.

[Athenau]

I revisited the Saber, and this thing has extremely good synergy with the soldier's skillset. Not only adrenaline rush, but concussive shot spam, since it has a very high chance of priming ammo effects per shot.

Also, one of the reasons I ranked the Saber relatively low was because I thought you had to limit your firerate to get good accuracy at mid/long ranges (at least with a scope, with a scope the accuracy is perfect AFAICT). But it turns out that the crosshairs are _extremely_ misleading, the spread is much better than they would indicate when you fire at max ROF. (Makes sense, since the actual accuracy degradation params are identical to other assault rifles, the crosshairs just act wonky for some reason).

I don't know if that's enough to justify bumping it another tier (it's still a soldier only weapon IMO), but it bears keeping in mind.

Modifié par Athenau, 04 août 2013 - 01:34 .

[capn233]

Main problem with Saber is you can't get it until Horizon.

It is less accurate if you fire it at max ROF. Will still probably hit the target, but headshots are unlikely unless you go a little under max ROF. This is at least without any accuracy boosting mod or talent (which is how I prefer to run it in MP).

The only other issue is that with Adrenaline Rush, the best mod combination lends itself to AP ammo rather than a primer, just so you can take Ext Mag and Ext Barrel... In SP a confounding issue is that HVB actually seems to add weight (and 50 is too high for any of them, IMO), but you can go Piercing and just forgo the 25% damage.

[darkchaosbunny]

Is the arc pistol piercing capable or is it projectile? Specifically concerning guardian shields.

[RA RA XD]

 Please don't necropost 

On an unrelated side note, does the suppressor REALLY belong in the broken teir ? Sure, it is ridiculously good against mooks with that 4x headshot multiplier and the highish fire rate, but when it comes to boss killing, your efficiency goes down the toilet. The Carnifex is leagues better for dealing with armor, especially since some of the bosses are imune to headshots (or is that only in MP ?)

[Athenau]

The arc pistol is a hitscan weapon and thus capable of piercing.

The suppressor does more damage per shot than the carnifex, and fires 10 rounds per second (if you mash fast enough). I don't know how you can call a weapon that does > 4000 dps anything but broken.

Modifié par Athenau, 06 août 2013 - 11:31 .