731 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

In Exile wrote...

Jowan was an idiot. If anything, he showed that a stupid mage without blood magic can do a lot more harm than an intelligent blood mage (cf. Avernus). 

I think may is a better term than can here.

[The Elder King]

In Exile wrote...



I'm not disagreeing. I just thought it was relevant that all of the actual cluster**** of problems that Jowan created were due entirely to him not being the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer and had nothing at all to do with his blood magic. 

Understood, and I agree with you.

[In Exile]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I think may is a better term than can here.

How so? I thought about the difference, but decided to go with 'can' because my intent was to compare the actual potential for harm, i.e., regular mage actually has the capability to do similar (if not greater) harm based on idiocy.

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

As for Avernus' research, it wasn't pretty. Neither is the Anvil of the Void. Both were aimed at dealing with the darkspawn, who threaten all known civilization. And the Wardens are supposed do whatever is necessary to stop the Blight.

Avernus's research was meant to deal with the demons in the Keep. It's why he focused on the taint, because blood magic was not especially effective against demons. What made his experiment (allegedly) immortal was all the fact that he was experimenting on people against their will.

True, it was initially aimed at dealing with the demons in the Keep, and Avernus contained them for centuries to keep people safe. I was thinking more along the lines of how Avernus' research was broaded for the goal of the order when The Warden spares his life, and encourages Avernus to push himself with his research.

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

and her reconstruction of ancient elven technology that baffled even the greatest minds of the Imperium.

It also baffled her mind, since she never got it to work. Not to say that Merrill wasn't quite intelligent. But making it look like an Eluvian without getting it to do anythig of note isn't proof she did anything with it. 

Merrill seems to have the most knowledge about the artifacts, however; second only to Morrigan.

[Herr Uhl]

In Exile wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

I think may is a better term than can here.

How so? I thought about the difference, but decided to go with 'can' because my intent was to compare the actual potential for harm, i.e., regular mage actually has the capability to do similar (if not greater) harm based on idiocy.

An intelligent mage has a higher capability for harm. Harvesters were created by intelligent blood mages, something I doubt Jowan would ever be close to toppling.

Jowan is even on the low scale if you want harm by incompetent mages, I think that Connor or Meredith's little sister would be better examples.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
True, it was initially aimed at dealing with the demons in the Keep, and Avernus contained them for centuries to keep people safe. I was thinking more along the lines of how Avernus' research was broaded for the goal of the order when The Warden spares his life, and encourages Avernus to push himself with his research.

I'd say that's the Warden's credit, not Avernus. Not to say that what Avernus will do won't be significant, I'd just credit it to the Warden.

Merrill seems to have the most knowledge about the artifacts, however; second only to Morrigan.

I'm not sure I'd impute that much knowledge to Morrigan. She didn't know very much about them at all, but rather pilfered that knowledge from the Dalish. We don't know how much Merril researched and how much lore she had access to compared to Morrigain. 

She doesn't give us an indication she knows what they might be used for, but that doesn't necessarily means that Morrigain knows more. IMO.

Modifié par In Exile, 08 mai 2013 - 12:24 .

[In Exile]

Herr Uhl wrote...
An intelligent mage has a higher capability for harm. Harvesters were created by intelligent blood mages, something I doubt Jowan would ever be close to toppling.

Jowan is even on the low scale if you want harm by incompetent mages, I think that Connor or Meredith's little sister would be better examples.

I'd chalk Connor or Meredith's sister to demons rather than incompetent mages, but point taken on the can/may. 

[Solmanian]

hhh89 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

"Potential for abuse"? Really? 100% of the blood mages we encounter are sociopaths; not all are neccessarily violent sociopaths (though they are the vast majority), but all are sociopath.

Merrill and Jowan weren't sociopaths. If you consider Finn a blood mage, he wasn't either. Malcolm Hawke was technically a blood mage, and he wasn't a sociopath.
And I think that not every evil blood mage, or (blood mage who did terrible things) are sociopaths. Zathrian wasn't a sociopaths. Orsino became completely mad during the last part of the game, but he wasn't a sociopath.

I like Merril, I do; Jowan, not so much. Neither are the picture of mental health. "Gregoir wants to turn me into a tranquil because he thinks I'm a blood mage! Which I'm not! Oh wait, I am..."

No, I don't consider Finn a blood mage.

*spoilers*

Malcolm Hawke was forced to use blood magic by the wardens, who threatened to kill his pregnant wife if he didn't. There's no evidence of him using it before or since.

Zathrian? I ROFL when I read this. He created a lycantropy curse to infect every human in the brecilian forest, in revenge of his children; I guess it's understandable though excessive. Many centuries later, after every single person that could be even remotely tied to what happened to his children has long since died, he still didn't bother removing the curse, insisting that this people be punished anyway; that's way beyond reasonable even for a grief stricken, blinded by revenge, father. And then there's the fact that he annualy dragged his clan back to a forest infested by werewolves, that he created; that's beyond negligent. He allowed his clan to almost be wiped out, and was willing to let them die, when he could remove the curse at any moment; and you got yourself a sociopath.

" Orsino became completely mad... but he wasn't a sociopath". What?

What's sad is that this are your poster boys for "non-evil" BM's...

Modifié par Solmanian, 08 mai 2013 - 05:27 .

[CrystaJ]

Power corrupts easily, and magic is no different. There will be mages who will do horrible things, always, and they will have access to power far beyond the scope of the average man at their disposal. It is reasonable to fear this: a crazed man with a knife is dangerous, but a crazed man with the ability to rain gigantic fireballs upon you -- or bend your mind against it's will -- is even more frightening and much more difficult to contain. The existence of mages who can control their powers does not diminish this fear, for as Sten and Fenris liked to always point out: it only takes one crazy mage to cause a massive amount of destruction.

Yet I still haven't brought myself to ever support the templars in DA II's ending, since although magic is indeed dangerous and I support the templars in principle (though my militant mage Hawke certainly didn't lol), I know I'm/Hawke is going to be responsible for the deaths of quite a few innocent people and I'd be killing them because of what someone else did. The mere potential of what a person may do with magic doesn't frighten me enough to condone an outright massacre. It doesn't help when you have a sister who is a mage or you're a mage yourself, from an in-character standpoint.

Now if it was Cullen, who probably wouldn't have been for killing EVERY mage in the circle (ironically), but found out that Orsino knew enough about blood magic to turn into a ****ing demon and his dealings with Quentin and wanted to just pwn him, I would have gladly supported the Templars. He's an ****, but he's not THAT crazy.

To be honest I kind of like these complicated moral dilemmas lol. I think finding a way to nullify magic altogether, without turning all mages tranquil, would probably be the easiest solution. Never gonna happen cuz that'd make the mage class pointless (which is by far the most fun imo), but yeah.

[The Elder King]

Solmanian wrote...



Zathrian? I ROFL when I read this. He created a lycantropy curse to infect every human in the brecilian forest, in revenge of his children; I guess it's understandable though excessive. Many centuries later, after every single person that could be even remotely tied to what happened to his children has long since died, he still didn't bother removing the curse, insisting that this people be punished anyway; that's way beyond reasonable even for a grief stricken, blinded by revenge, father. And then there's the fact that he annualy dragged his clan back to a forest infested by werewolves, that he created; that's beyond negligent. He allowed his clan to almost be wiped out, and was willing to let them die, when he could remove the curse at any moment; and you got yourself a sociopath.

" Orsino became completely mad... but he wasn't a sociopath". What?

What's sad is that this are your poster boys for "non-evil" BM's...

Because I'm not saying that this blood mages are good people. I'm saying that those blood mages aren't sociopaths/have mental issues, which is what you were claiming.
Zathrian wasn't a sociopath. He was obsessesed with punishing humans for what some did to his family. This doesn't mean he's a sociopath.
Orsino became mad during the last part of the game, due to his mages's friend dying. He wasn't mad. during the rest of the game, and he wasn't a sociopath.
If in your post you have said "100% of blood mages were evi/did horrible things" I wouldn't have named Zathrian or Orsino. You'd have still be wrong, since blood mages who aren't evil exist.

[The Elder King]

Solmanian wrote...


I like Merril, I do; Jowan, not so much. Neither are the picture of mental health. "Gregoir wants to turn me into a tranquil because he thinks I'm a blood mage! Which I'm not! Oh wait, I am..."

No, I don't consider Finn a blood mage.

*spoilers*

Malcolm Hawke was forced to use blood magic by the wardens, who threatened to kill his pregnant wife if he didn't. There's no evidence of him using it before or since.

Jowan was lying to you. He's an idiot, but that doesn't mean he has mental issues.
Fair enough about Finn.
And I don't think Merrill has mental issues. She's naive, she could be considered an idiot by somoene, but she's doesn't have mental issues.
And besides, you said sociopaths, not having any mental issues.

SPOILER




I doubt that Malcolm learnt blood magic the moment the Wardens threatened him. He should've learnt it before.

Modifié par hhh89, 08 mai 2013 - 11:46 .

[LobselVith8]

Solmanian wrote...

I like Merril, I do; Jowan, not so much. Neither are the picture of mental health. "Gregoir wants to turn me into a tranquil because he thinks I'm a blood mage! Which I'm not! Oh wait, I am..."

Jowan lied; that's the point. He wanted to run away and have a life with Lily, who he was deeply in love with. He felt inferior to the mage protagonist, who was a prodigy and Irving's "star pupil", which is why he learned blood magic to become a better mage. He was jealous, but blood magic didn't turn him evil. Nor did blood magic make Merrill evil, as she never abused her abilities.

Solmanian wrote...

No, I don't consider Finn a blood mage.

Finn is still a mage who uses blood magic to locate the Eluvian, and doesn't become evil as a consequence of using it.

Solmanian wrote...

*spoilers*

Malcolm Hawke was forced to use blood magic by the wardens, who threatened to kill his pregnant wife if he didn't. There's no evidence of him using it before or since.

The point is that this ntion of a mage using blood magic and becoming evil as a result isn't true when we know there are mages who use blood magic, and don't turn evil or become corrupted simply because they used blood magic.

Solmanian wrote...

Zathrian? I ROFL when I read this. He created a lycantropy curse to infect every human in the brecilian forest, in revenge of his children; I guess it's understandable though excessive. Many centuries later, after every single person that could be even remotely tied to what happened to his children has long since died, he still didn't bother removing the curse, insisting that this people be punished anyway; that's way beyond reasonable even for a grief stricken, blinded by revenge, father. And then there's the fact that he annualy dragged his clan back to a forest infested by werewolves, that he created; that's beyond negligent. He allowed his clan to almost be wiped out, and was willing to let them die, when he could remove the curse at any moment; and you got yourself a sociopath.

Zathrian specifically cursed the humans who murdered his son and raped his daughter. He also hasn't had the best experience with humans, since the other encounter we hear about is Zathrian killing a group of humans who had made a child Lanaya their sex slave. I think you're also missing the point that Zathrian's use of the curse didn't make him evil; he wanted revenge because of what happened to his children, but it's not as though his use of blood magic made him inherently evil or anything like that. And Zathrian can come to let go of his hatred, and give up his life so that the curse is broken for everyone.

Solmanian wrote...

" Orsino became completely mad... but he wasn't a sociopath". What?

I think the point is that Orsino used blood magic once (because he seemed to miraculously remember a complex ritual he read about years ago that can clearly ony be performed once), but it wasn't the reason he lost his sanity.

Solmanian wrote...

What's sad is that this are your poster boys for "non-evil" BM's... 

We have Grey Warden mages, apostates who simply want to live without being killed by the templars, Jowan becoming Master Levyn and protecting refugees during the Fifth Blight, Merrill, and even the protagonists: The Warden and the Champion (if they are mages). This idea that blood mages are evil or automatically become evil through the use of blood magic simply isn't true.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Finn's ritual is not blood magic.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

My understanding is that it's enough of a grey area that he asks you not to make it public that he can do it.

[LPPrince]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

My understanding is that it's enough of a grey area that he asks you not to make it public that he can do it.

Just like the Grey Warden Ritual must remain hushy hushy

[Senya]

@Lobsel

I think the fact that Zathrian was able use blood magic to bring untold suffering upon generations and generations of humans shows that blood magic is open for abuse in a way that other magic simply is not.

Even Merrill admits to being aware that she is in more danger because of her blood magic after she succumbs to the Pride Demon in Feynriel's Nightmare.

Blood magic may not turn people evil, but it certainly presents powerful temptation and risk. No other magic directly feeds upon death and suffering. It is a weapon in the same way biological weapons are in real life. Sure, mustard gas can conceivably be used for good if it's against a guy who wants to kill you, but there's a reason why it was banned by treaty after World War I.

Heck, even Anders is against it.

[LPPrince]

And Anders is a an ist of terror

[Xilizhra]

Heck, even Anders is against it.

To be precise, this is a consequence of Justice's possession. He's not all that against it in Awakening.

[Medhia Nox]

@hhh89: Pathological narcissism is the belief that the person is "special" and has a special purpose.

- Jowan believes that his love is above the rules. He believes that, no matter how inferior he truly is (and he is), that he deserves the right to be considered an equal by using an illegal method of magic. Then he goes on an atonement quest he designs for himself to absolve himself of what he perceives as his "crimes" ((which is really just failing Lily - not doing anything illegal)).

Only when confronted by the Warden does he admit that everything he's done so far is utterly self-serving. But even then - he goes one to play a martyr as some sort of mystical physician.

- Anders is the absolute worst. He believes that he alone can save the world from the terrible oppression of "his people". He uses a clinic as a mask for a terrorist cell which he then uses to obliterate a good part of Kirkwall (I won't argue the point - watch the video. The streets are on fire after the blast.)

And then, unlike Jowan, he embraces his martyr complex and welcomes the coming destruction in his little demented speech at the end of the game.

- Merrill's narcissism is in her messiah complex for "her people".  (again - a narcissist only has empathy with people he/she believes are "theirs" ) She doesn't care who she hurts in her cause to advance the elven situation. Even twisting it so far as to put an entire group of Dalish in danger.

At her best - she's a singularly minded fanatical cause head who believes in her own messiah complex.

- Zathrian, Uldred, Avernus and Orsino are all variations of the same principle.

====

The best mages are dullards in Thedas.

- First Enchanter Irving never says a single intelligent thing about magic (though I suppose he "tries to" at the beginning.)

- Wynne is "wise" but still an imbecile when it comes to magic. When you meet her in Ostagar and talk about the most basic concepts of magic... she basically says: "F--k if I know, but it's something to think about."

- Don't get my started on Senior Enchanter's Leorah and Sweeny.

- Flemeth's too busy being boorishly obtuse and using her magic for sexy gilf makeovers.

- And Morrigan is close to Wynne's opposite. She's got some magical theory to actually talk about - but she's just a craven beast who's main concern is survival.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 09 mai 2013 - 12:52 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

CrystaJ wrote...

To be honest I kind of like these complicated moral dilemmas lol. I think finding a way to nullify magic altogether, without turning all mages tranquil, would probably be the easiest solution. Never gonna happen cuz that'd make the mage class pointless (which is by far the most fun imo), but yeah.

If you did do this, Thedas would not be able to resist the Qunari. The only reason Thedas was able to hold out against cannons was magic. Without that, basically their only hope would be trying to steal gunpowder, which they're already trying to do with no success.

[Genshie]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

To be honest I kind of like these complicated moral dilemmas lol. I think finding a way to nullify magic altogether, without turning all mages tranquil, would probably be the easiest solution. Never gonna happen cuz that'd make the mage class pointless (which is by far the most fun imo), but yeah.

If you did do this, Thedas would not be able to resist the Qunari. The only reason Thedas was able to hold out against cannons was magic. Without that, basically their only hope would be trying to steal gunpowder, which they're already trying to do with no success.

(I have returneth!!)

(On Topic now): I don't think it will be long until we start seeing guns/rifles/or some sort of early form of a fire arm being used. If you played Awakening there is a section if you are defending the Keep where you can use a type of early cannon fire made by a dwarf who is now being hunted by the Qunari. Due to the recent attack on Kirkwall by the Qunari I wouldn't be surprised if people start just going after them for their "explosive powder" secrets now that they have a reason behind it.

Modifié par Genshie, 09 mai 2013 - 02:07 .

[Hazegurl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@hhh89: Pathological narcissism is the belief that the person is "special" and has a special purpose.

- Jowan believes that his love is above the rules. He believes that, no matter how inferior he truly is (and he is), that he deserves the right to be considered an equal by using an illegal method of magic. Then he goes on an atonement quest he designs for himself to absolve himself of what he perceives as his "crimes" ((which is really just failing Lily - not doing anything illegal)).

Only when confronted by the Warden does he admit that everything he's done so far is utterly self-serving. But even then - he goes one to play a martyr as some sort of mystical physician.

- Anders is the absolute worst. He believes that he alone can save the world from the terrible oppression of "his people". He uses a clinic as a mask for a terrorist cell which he then uses to obliterate a good part of Kirkwall (I won't argue the point - watch the video. The streets are on fire after the blast.)

And then, unlike Jowan, he embraces his martyr complex and welcomes the coming destruction in his little demented speech at the end of the game.

- Merrill's narcissism is in her messiah complex for "her people".  (again - a narcissist only has empathy with people he/she believes are "theirs" ) She doesn't care who she hurts in her cause to advance the elven situation. Even twisting it so far as to put an entire group of Dalish in danger.

At her best - she's a singularly minded fanatical cause head who believes in her own messiah complex.

- Zathrian, Uldred, Avernus and Orsino are all variations of the same principle.

====

The best mages are dullards in Thedas.

- First Enchanter Irving never says a single intelligent thing about magic (though I suppose he "tries to" at the beginning.)

- Wynne is "wise" but still an imbecile when it comes to magic. When you meet her in Ostagar and talk about the most basic concepts of magic... she basically says: "F--k if I know, but it's something to think about."

- Don't get my started on Senior Enchanter's Leorah and Sweeny.

- Flemeth's too busy being boorishly obtuse and using her magic for sexy gilf makeovers.

- And Morrigan is close to Wynne's opposite. She's got some magical theory to actually talk about - but she's just a craven beast who's main concern is survival.

[LobselVith8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

@Lobsel

I think the fact that Zathrian was able use blood magic to bring untold suffering upon generations and generations of humans shows that blood magic is open for abuse in a way that other magic simply is not.

Blood magic is certainly open to abuse, but so is political power and the misuse of deadly weapons. We see how Arl Howe abused his power to massacre humans and elves, to torture people for his own amusement, and to rob from the treasury while the nation was nearly broke, in the middle of a civil war, and dealing with the threat of the Fifth Blight. There's no reason to single out blood magic. Even religious authority can be abused by malevolent people, and it can bring suffering to countless people over the centuries.

almostinsane99 wrote...

Even Merrill admits to being aware that she is in more danger because of her blood magic after she succumbs to the Pride Demon in Feynriel's Nightmare.

Being a blood mage had nothing to do with the sheer stupidity of everyone (but Anders) betraying Hawke in a matter of seconds in "Night Terrors". Asinine writing did. We can clearly see that Merrill uses blood magic for nearly a decade, but doesn't abuse her powers, even against those who have been cruel to her for years (like Fenris and Anders).

almostinsane99 wrote...

Blood magic may not turn people evil, but it certainly presents powerful temptation and risk. No other magic directly feeds upon death and suffering. It is a weapon in the same way biological weapons are in real life. Sure, mustard gas can conceivably be used for good if it's against a guy who wants to kill you, but there's a reason why it was banned by treaty after World War I.

Blood magic doesn't turn people evil. Period. Even the plethora of insane and stupid mages in Dragon Age II couldn't contest this fact. And there's a reason mages in Thedas use it - from the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to give them an edge against the greatest threat to all life on the planet, to the apostates who use blood magic because templars can nullify their powers otherwise.

almostinsane99 wrote...

Heck, even Anders is against it.

Anders also argues with Merrill over her religious views, because she sees spirits as spirits instead of Spirits and Demons, i.e. Spirits being the "First Maker of the Children" and Demons being Spirits who turned their backs on the Maker in jealousy over humanity. Anders is far from infallible.

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

@Lobsel

I think the fact that Zathrian was able use blood magic to bring untold suffering upon generations and generations of humans shows that blood magic is open for abuse in a way that other magic simply is not.

Blood magic is certainly open to abuse, but so is political power and the misuse of deadly weapons. We see how Arl Howe abused his power to massacre humans and elves, to torture people for his own amusement, and to rob from the treasury while the nation was nearly broke, in the middle of a civil war, and dealing with the threat of the Fifth Blight. There's no reason to single out blood magic. Even religious authority can be abused by malevolent people, and it can bring suffering to countless people over the centuries.

You're ignoring scope in that comparison.  For religious authority to be abused, it takes an enormous amount of conversion, in addition to no reform or reinterpretation occuring during that time, in addition to the setting being appropriate for religious leaders to hold such power.   Hundreds of years of werewolf problems takes one pissed off mage, and can only be fixed by getting that mage to remove it.  Heck, the slaughtering and undead resurrection of a village takes one mistake from a mage kid, where it would require an armed force if ordered by a Lord.

So :
Blood Magic = Bomb
Religious Authority, Political Power = Gun
Weapons = Knife

All of them can be misused, but one of them stands to cause significant more damage than others with less precision.

[LobselVith8]

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

@hhh89: Pathological narcissism is the belief that the person is "special" and has a special purpose. [/quote]



[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Jowan believes that his love is above the rules. He believes that, no matter how inferior he truly is (and he is), that he deserves the right to be considered an equal by using an illegal method of magic. Then he goes on an atonement quest he designs for himself to absolve himself of what he perceives as his "crimes" ((which is really just failing Lily - not doing anything illegal)). [/quote]

Jowan is an apprentice who is jealous of his friend, the mage protagonist - who is a prodigy and Irving's "star puppil". He came from a home where his parents rejected him as a thing, rather than a person, because they discovered he was a mage. He fell in love with an initiate, and wanted to have a life with Lily outside the Circle, where he could be free and keep his humanity - which he would lose if he was made tranquil in the Rite of Tranquility that Greagoir wanted performed on him.

He's simply a flawed person who can become a better man, if given the chance.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

Only when confronted by the Warden does he admit that everything he's done so far is utterly self-serving. But even then - he goes one to play a martyr as some sort of mystical physician. [/quote]

Jowan is a flawed person who makes many mistakes, but he can dedicate himself to protecting refugees from the darkspawn. I don't see any reason to vilify him.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Anders is the absolute worst. He believes that he alone can save the world from the terrible oppression of "his people". He uses a clinic as a mask for a terrorist cell which he then uses to obliterate a good part of Kirkwall (I won't argue the point - watch the video. The streets are on fire after the blast.) [/quote]

You realize Anders works for the mage underground, right? Which means he isn't working alone, but with other people. And if Hawke is an apostate, Anders encourages the protagonist to become the leader of the mages, to the point of actually saying that the Champion is the person who the mages have waited centuries for.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

And then, unlike Jowan, he embraces his martyr complex and welcomes the coming destruction in his little demented speech at the end of the game. [/quote]

According to Anders' writer, Jennifer Brandes Hepler, "Personally, my view of it is that Anders wants to blow up the Chantry AND wants to die for it -- that way he gets the revolution he/Justice believes is necessary, but still gives justice to those who died in the Chantry."

As for Anders' actions in Act III, it comes down to the fact that Anders wanted to free his people from slavery, which is why he kills Grand Cleric Elthina and the members of the Kirkwall Chantry and the Templar Order in the blast that obliterated the Kirkwall Chantry.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Merrill's narcissism is in her messiah complex for "her people".  (again - a narcissist only has empathy with people he/she believes are "theirs" ) She doesn't care who she hurts in her cause to advance the elven situation. Even twisting it so far as to put an entire group of Dalish in danger. [/quote]

Aside from the fact that Merrill demonstrates her empathy for the Alienage elves, Feynriel, the runaway mages from Starkhaven, Fenris, Anders, the mages from the Circle of Kirkwall, and others, these facts disprove this factually inaccurate commentary of yours.

Furthermore, you're vilifying Merrill because she cares about her people, even though her clan hates her because Marethari poisoned them against her in an attempt to coerce her to give up her search and return to them, and Merrill is actively trying to find a way to stop the decline of the People through revolutionary technology that could irrevocably change their lives for the better.

I wish Hawke was as proactive as Merrill, instead of being terribly passive.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

At her best - she's a singularly minded fanatical cause head who believes in her own messiah complex. [/quote]

Your hatred of mages is going a bit far, because this makes absolutely no sense.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Zathrian, Uldred, Avernus and Orsino are all variations of the same principle. [/quote]

No, they're not.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

The best mages are dullards in Thedas.

- First Enchanter Irving never says a single intelligent thing about magic (though I suppose he "tries to" at the beginning.) [/quote]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with Irving's condemnation of the Chantry or the templars, or his support for mage autonomy via the Magi Boon.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Wynne is "wise" but still an imbecile when it comes to magic. When you meet her in Ostagar and talk about the most basic concepts of magic... she basically says: "F--k if I know, but it's something to think about." [/quote]

Wynne says that about the fable of the Golden City, if The Warden condescendingly points out that the Chantry claims many things.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Don't get my started on Senior Enchanter's Leorah and Sweeny. [/quote]

More flawed characters.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- Flemeth's too busy being boorishly obtuse and using her magic for sexy gilf makeovers. [/quote]

Flemeth also used her magic to kill templars.

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...

- And Morrigan is close to Wynne's opposite. She's got some magical theory to actually talk about - but she's just a craven beast who's main concern is survival. [/quote]

Which is contradicted by her reason to help The Warden live if the two are in a romance, or if she is good friends with the protagonist.