731 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

MisterJB wrote...

KainD wrote...
Yes but the thing is I have no good arguments to reason with a guy like that until templars are out of the way. 
There is no real reason for a mage to have any compassion or understanding or care for a society that would gladly see him/her dead or tranquil or locked somewhere in a tower. 

I usually try to be understanding and nice to people, though I tend to get really pissed when they don't want to be nice in return. I want people of Thedas to accept mages and I want mages to act nice and not abuse their power. 
This will never happen as long as templars exist so I can't support them. 

First of all, any possible persecution does not justify world domination especially considering Titus is a Tevinter Magister which means he never suffered persecution his entire life.
Second, even if we were yo accept your logic, it can be turned around against you. Why should the templars care for the mages when they would gadly see them destroyed or enslaved? Peace can never exist so long as the Magisters do. There were Magisters long before there were Templars so, clearly, they started it.

Just because he's gunning for world domination doesn't mean he'll get it. So he has goals, he can still be killed while trying to get them. Sure, he's a scumbag, he'll get his comupperance.

Dude, what? They are extremeists- it just breeds more and more. You can't make a massive generalization like that. Some mages are dicks, so lets lock them all up? Some templars are okay, so lets leave them all in charge despite them all being hooked on addictive drugs? Some people are greedy and stupid, so lets convert them all?

[KainD]

MisterJB wrote...
First of all, any possible persecution does not justify world domination especially considering Titus is a Tevinter Magister which means he never suffered persecution his entire life.

I know. What I am saying is as a protagonist who is most likely going to be from Thedas, this protagonist doesn't have the right to judge a person like Titus or tell him that he is doing something wrong while Thedas has templars and is trying to keep mages in the circles, which is almost like a reverse slavery, even if with more luxury, dosn't matter. 
So first I have to fix Thedas and THEN come up to Titus and tell him that he is an as$hole, otherwise I would just be hipocritical. 

MisterJB wrote...
Second, even if we were yo accept your logic, it can be turned around against you. Why should the templars care for the mages when they would gadly see them destroyed or enslaved? Peace can never exist so long as the Magisters do. There were Magisters long before there were Templars so, clearly, they started it.

You can't turn an argument around like that because I don't actually support Tevinter ways. I am not saying Tevinter should inslave whole Thedas, I am just saying that it is totally rational for Tevinter to behave in this way while the Templars exist. 
But the main problems with the Templars is they lock up all the mages, when it should only be the ones that have missused their magic in some way. The fact that they don't care and lock up people that haven't done anything wrong in their whole life makes them an antagonist for me. 
I would support the templars if instead of locking up innocent mages they would organized a crusade for Tevitner to stop all the slavery or something. 

Modifié par KainD, 01 mai 2013 - 10:09 .

[MisterJB]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Just because he's gunning for world domination doesn't mean he'll get it. So he has goals, he can still be killed while trying to get them. Sure, he's a scumbag, he'll get his comupperance.

And hopefully it will be a non-mage who kills him.

Dude, what? They are extremeists- it just breeds more and more. You can't make a massive generalization like that. Some mages are dicks, so lets lock them all up? Some templars are okay, so lets leave them all in charge despite them all being hooked on addictive drugs? Some people are greedy and stupid, so lets convert them all?

I did not make generalizations. KaiD did by saying that because the templars exist, mages like Titus are completely justified. I merely used his logic to show how it can be turned against him.

While I am supportive of the Templars and the Circle System, it's not because I believe that all templars are saints or all mages evil.

[KiwiQuiche]

MisterJB wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Just because he's gunning for world domination doesn't mean he'll get it. So he has goals, he can still be killed while trying to get them. Sure, he's a scumbag, he'll get his comupperance.

And hopefully it will be a non-mage who kills him.

Dude, what? They are extremeists- it just breeds more and more. You can't make a massive generalization like that. Some mages are dicks, so lets lock them all up? Some templars are okay, so lets leave them all in charge despite them all being hooked on addictive drugs? Some people are greedy and stupid, so lets convert them all?

I did not make generalizations. KaiD did by saying that because the templars exist, mages like Titus are completely justified. I merely used his logic to show how it can be turned against him.

While I am supportive of the Templars and the Circle System, it's not because I believe that all templars are saints or all mages evil.

So someone who is a mage won't kill someone who's obviously an egoistic manic 'cause reasons? Or do you want a non-mage to kill him to prove some point?

[KainD]

MisterJB wrote...

KaiD did by saying that because the templars exist, mages like Titus are completely justified.

I totally did. I think the templar order should be wiped out and rebuilt in a completely different direction. What the order currently stands for, their goals and life, makes anyone who joins the the order a scumbag in my eyes. So yeah the CURRENT templar order shouldn't exist. 

[MisterJB]

KainD wrote...
I know. What I am saying is as a protagonist who is most likely going to be from Thedas, this protagonist doesn't have the right to judge a person like Titus or tell him that he is doing something wrong while Thedas has templars and is trying to keep mages in the circles, which is almost like a reverse slavery, even if with more luxury, dosn't matter. 
So first I have to fix Thedas and THEN come up to Titus and tell him that he is an as$hole, otherwise I would just be hipocritical. 

Not at all. One wrongdoing does not justify the other. The existance of injustices in Southern Thedas does not mean that injustices commited in Northern Thedas are any less repugnant especially considering the fact there are differente degrees of evil.
So, I feel totally conformtable with saying that Titus' plan to enslave the very souls of all non-mages in Thedas so he can rule in whichever manner he pleases and be thanked for it is the most evil thing in the history of everything.
You might dislike the Templars and the Chantry but they did back off when someone suggested all mages should be made Tranquil.

You can't turn an argument around like that because I don't actually support Tevinter ways. I am not saying Tevinter should inslave whole Thedas, I am just saying that it is totally rational for Tevinter to behave in this way while the Templars exist. 
But the main problems with the Templars is they lock up all the mages, when it should only be the ones that have missused their magic in some way. The fact that they don't care and lock up people that haven't done anything wrong in their whole life makes them an antagonist for me. 
I would support the templars if instead of locking up innocent mages they would organized a crusade for Tevitner to stop all the slavery or something. 

Yes I can because if it's totally rational for Tevinter to behave in this way while the Templars exist then it's totally rational for the Templars to behave in that way while Tevinter exists.
More rational even considering Tevinter came first.
And Tevinter enslaves everyone who can't defend himself while teaching all non-mages how very inferior they are.

[M Hedonist]

Who is that guy? I'd love to meet him in DA3.

[MisterJB]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
So someone who is a mage won't kill someone who's obviously an egoistic manic 'cause reasons? Or do you want a non-mage to kill him to prove some point?

Titus believes mages are inherently superior to non-mages which gives them the right to rule as they see fit.
I'd thus like for a non-mage to defeat him.
I'm sure there are mages who would have some issue with Titus' plan. Mae, for instance, is fighting against him even if she seems to be more interested in revenge than protecting the world.

[KainD]

@MisterJB

I guess I worded myself out poorly. I mean I would of course try to stop Titus from enslaving every soul..
I 'm just not even sure who has to take the first step in the conflict, I feel like currently Templar order and Tevinter were just made for each other and they should be the ones at war, not at war with the poor mages from the circles..

I guess what I more meant was Templars are not justified to behave the way they do towards circle mages and circle mages would be justified to join the Tevinter, because they haven't done anything wrong.

[fchopin]

I have no interest what happens in comic books or TV video, what is not in the game has no significance for me.

[Genshie]

fchopin wrote...

I have no interest what happens in comic books or TV video, what is not in the game has no significance for me.

It may influence what kinds of characters we may see and who is to say he won't be in game? Just because he isn't cannon doesn't mean he won't pop up or characters just like him.

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 10:38 .

[LilyasAvalon]

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

[Genshie]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

If it is coming back and if the few remaining mages who have this abilitiy are popping up and taking action it doesn't sound like it will be for a good reason.

[KainD]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

Nothing happened, Dreamers are just rare. 

[Genshie]

KainD wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

Nothing happened, Dreamers are just rare. 

If they do have some influence in DA3 like I hope and think they are then it would be a very interesting experience. Just as long as said previously we are not spending too much time in the fade. XD

[KiwiQuiche]

MisterJB wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
So someone who is a mage won't kill someone who's obviously an egoistic manic 'cause reasons? Or do you want a non-mage to kill him to prove some point?

Titus believes mages are inherently superior to non-mages which gives them the right to rule as they see fit.
I'd thus like for a non-mage to defeat him.
I'm sure there are mages who would have some issue with Titus' plan. Mae, for instance, is fighting against him even if she seems to be more interested in revenge than protecting the world.

Personally I would like for a mage to kill him to more so prove, yes mages are incredibly powerful and could rule as they see fit, but they don't want to enslave and frightening everyone else; they just want to be treated as people, not dangerous animals.

Is that Mae in the page? Something is telling me it's Isabela, but she doesn't have tattoos.

[KainD]

Genshie wrote...
If they do have some influence in DA3 like I hope and think they are then it would be a very interesting experience. Just as long as said previously we are not spending too much time in the fade. XD

It would be cool if mage PC could be one of them. 

[Genshie]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
So someone who is a mage won't kill someone who's obviously an egoistic manic 'cause reasons? Or do you want a non-mage to kill him to prove some point?

Titus believes mages are inherently superior to non-mages which gives them the right to rule as they see fit.
I'd thus like for a non-mage to defeat him.
I'm sure there are mages who would have some issue with Titus' plan. Mae, for instance, is fighting against him even if she seems to be more interested in revenge than protecting the world.

Personally I would like for a mage to kill him to more so prove, yes mages are incredibly powerful and could rule as they see fit, but they don't want to enslave and frightening everyone else; they just want to be treated as people, not dangerous animals.

Is that Mae in the page? Something is telling me it's Isabela, but she doesn't have tattoos.

If you go to David's tumbler he posted more pages of the comic and from what I can tell the mage basically put Isabela in her own personal hell hence her new look.

[KiwiQuiche]

Genshie wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
So someone who is a mage won't kill someone who's obviously an egoistic manic 'cause reasons? Or do you want a non-mage to kill him to prove some point?

Titus believes mages are inherently superior to non-mages which gives them the right to rule as they see fit.
I'd thus like for a non-mage to defeat him.
I'm sure there are mages who would have some issue with Titus' plan. Mae, for instance, is fighting against him even if she seems to be more interested in revenge than protecting the world.

Personally I would like for a mage to kill him to more so prove, yes mages are incredibly powerful and could rule as they see fit, but they don't want to enslave and frightening everyone else; they just want to be treated as people, not dangerous animals.

Is that Mae in the page? Something is telling me it's Isabela, but she doesn't have tattoos.

If you go to David's tumbler he posted more pages of the comic and from what I can tell the mage basically put Isabela in her own personal hell hence her new look.

...I suppose it's one of those "It makes sense in context" things

[EmperorSahlertz]

They are in the Fade, in each of their own dreams, Varric dreamt of being back with Bianca, Mae dreamt of being back with her husband in her mansion, and Isabela has a nightmare where she has joined the Qun. It is Isabela you see on the page.

[MisterJB]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

SPOILERS

When Tevinter converted to Andrastianism, most Dreamers were killed because they were the ones who had first extablished contact with the Old Gods. They were always rare, now they're nearly gone.
Titus is not a Dreamer. He is using a device invented by somniaris which is being powered by Maric's Dragon Blood to augment his powers.

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 mai 2013 - 11:05 .

[Genshie]

MisterJB wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm personally more curious as to what happened to this power. Remember Feynriel in DA2? He was a Dreamer as well, a type of Mage who's all but extinct by the sound of it. But apparently it was more common place back in 'the good old days'.

...So.... what happened? And is it coming back to ALL mages?

SPOILERS

When Tevinter converted to Andrastianism, most Dreamers were killed because they were the ones who had first extablished contact with the Old Gods. They were always rare, now they're nearly gone.
Titus is not a Dreamer. He is using a device invented by somniaris which is being powered by Maric's Dragon Blood to augment his powers.

So they have a tool that can mimic Dreamer like abilities?

[EmperorSahlertz]

They don't. Titus does.

[Karlone123]

"Mages sculpting dreams" I keep thinking I have heard that line in Dragon Age before. Does that line ring a a bell to anyone.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Melca36 wrote...

Um...The comics are not canon to the game. Why assume all mages are evil when that is NOT the case?

The comics reflect decisions made in a playthrough writer David Gaider did. Some things are certainly not canon, however some elements could be considered hard canon (e.g. Sten becomes Arishok). As Gaider is the head writer, I would say it's safe to say that the books and comics certainly reflect his ideas and vision for the series.

That said, I tend to be sympathetic to mages, or at least the ones who aren't crazy, evil, or megalomaniacal. I admire Anders' ideals even if his preaching and ultimately his actions at the end of DA2 are repellant. I would side with the Templars if a mage or group of mages were a significant threat (such as the one the evil mage presents in the comic book page OP has posted), but I would likely try to get the assistance of other mages in defeating such foes. It might prove difficult to convince mages or Templars to work together, given the current war between them, but I would at least try rather than just condemn all mages outright for the lunacy of a few.

I'm planning to do my first playthrough of DA3 as a mage, so should a scenario where I can side with one group or another or try to unite them against a common foe I would probably go for the latter. Heck, my first Hawke was a mage-sympathetic warrior who found the Templars too extreme. I guess what I'm saying is that sympathy for the mages most reflects my own values and beliefs in RL, while playing a highly religious, pro-Templar character is the kind of stretch one makes when roleplaying.