731 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
It doesn't make sense by what we know now, which is, relatively speaking, incredibly little. A great many things have been lost in the past that we know nothing of, such as the Primeval Thaig. And I've come up with several theories for it, such as humans being unknowing factors to spread some kind of spiritual contagion that only affects elves.

This is not a matter of us knowing little; the problem with the elven legends is that everything else we know about the world tells us otherwise. It's like me claiming the world is being carried in the back of a giant turtle when scientific studies shows a planet is an astronomical object with its own gravity and etc.

And that is also not a theory. A theory is, for example, me saying the Primeval Thaig is Arlathan because we can find a ring named "The Carved Ring of Vhenadalh" which is an elven god and since Tevinter records state Arlathan was sunk into the stone, it fits.
But there is nothing that even suggests there is "some kind of spiritual contagion that only affects elves."

[Asdrubael Vect]

A theory is, for example, me saying the Primeval Thaig is Arlathan because we can find a ring named "The Carved Ring of Vhenadalh" which is an elven god and since Tevinter records state Arlathan was sunk into the stone, it fits.
But there is nothing that even suggests there is "some kind of spiritual contagion that only affects elves."

Ancient Elves have relationship wth dwarfs even before humans in Thedas

Arlathan(what's left of it) is in Arlathan forest

"This is not a matter of us knowing little; the problem with the elven legends is that everything else we know about the world tells us otherwise."

Tevinter and Orlais actions causes us to believe that most of what Dalish said was true

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 12 mai 2013 - 04:28 .

[Xilizhra]

This is not a matter of us knowing little; the problem with the elven legends is that everything else we know about the world tells us otherwise. It's like me claiming the world is being carried in the back of a giant turtle when scientific studies shows a planet is an astronomical object with its own gravity and etc.

That might be relevant if any scientific studies had been made of conditions in Arlathan, but none at all have. It's like looking at pure lead and using it to study the radioactive materials that decayed into it.

And that is also not a theory. A theory is, for example, me saying the Primeval Thaig is Arlathan because we can find a ring named "The Carved Ring of Vhenadalh" which is an elven god and since Tevinter records state Arlathan was sunk into the stone, it fits.
But there is nothing that even suggests there is "some kind of spiritual contagion that only affects elves."

Dalish history suggests that there was something. That's just one hypothesis. There are others, such as the immortality being granted by something in Arlathan that was lost when the city was destroyed, or the immortality being an indirect loss of the universal magic the elves once had.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

StreetMagic wrote...

My theory is that the Dalish are simply butthurt, and feel a need to play the victim at all times.

I can't even compare that sick Halla in DAO to a Horse, without the elf getting insulted. Like saying that brings them down to a lower level or something. No, the Halla is a magical special creature that can't possibly be compared, and you're a stupid Shem for even thinking it.

Basically, the Dalish have severe psychological issues. That's the real story.

That's a little unfair. To a large extent they are victims. Maybe they're playing this up a little, but they've still gotten the short end.

[BlueMagitek]

Let's be fair, there are a handful of decent Dalish in Origins. There's that one guy who wants to try and find his wife, there's his wife who begs to be killed...

um....

Actually that's about it. I guess you could consider Zath's First as decent? She's not that bad.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
That might be relevant if any scientific studies had been made of conditions in Arlathan, but none at all have. It's like looking at pure lead and using it to study the radioactive materials that decayed into it.

Arlathan was in Thedas, it was destroyed by tevinter and inhabited by elves.
Thedas is still around, Tevinter is still around and the same goes for the elves. And after studying all three, we can conclude that there is nothing in physical Thedas gifted with eternal life nor that humans cause magical disease in other races.
Therefore, there is nothing supporting the elven legends.

Dalish history suggests that there was something. That's just one hypothesis. There are others, such as the immortality being granted by something in Arlathan that was lost when the city was destroyed, or the immortality being an indirect loss of the universal magic the elves once had.

"The elves said it so, it must have been something."
You lack evidence. Evidence is what distinguishes theories from fanfiction. Do you actually have any evidence that humans carry some plague, that there was "something" In Arlathan, that universal magic actually existed?
No, because there is none. If you don't find evidence that supports a claim and do, in fact, find evidence that goes against it, you conclude the claim is wrong.

[ofarrell]

Maybe there will be more than one faction of mages. There will be those who want domination and those who simply want freedom.

[BlueMagitek]

ofarrell wrote...

Maybe there will be more than one faction of mages. There will be those who want domination and those who simply want freedom.

I would prefer factions based on Fraternity lines, actually.

[Asdrubael Vect]

StreetMagic wrote...

My theory is that the Dalish are simply butthurt, and feel a need to play the victim at all times.

I can't even compare that sick Halla in DAO to a Horse, without the elf getting insulted. Like saying that brings their culture down to a lower level or something. "No, the Halla is a magical special creature that can't possibly be compared, and you're a stupid Shem for even thinking it."

1)you right they need a good and sweat revenge, a good crusade & masacre to conquer Orlais

2) they use Halla(they are sacred and rare intelligent animalls) to pull Aravels(venichle-house) and their horns(which are expensive) and before fall of the Dales they actually use stags as horses for their knights 

[MisterJB]

StreetMagic wrote...

My theory is that the Dalish are simply butthurt, and feel a need to play the victim at all times.

I can't even compare that sick Halla in DAO to a Horse, without the elf getting insulted. Like saying that brings their culture down to a lower level or something. "No, the Halla is a magical special creature that can't possibly be compared, and you're a stupid Shem for even thinking it."

Hear, Hear. I think i'm going to puke rainbows.
I bet you a sovereign mabaris are smarter than hallas, anyway.

BlueMagitek wrote...

Let's be fair, there are a handful of
decent Dalish in Origins. There's that one guy who wants to try and
find his wife, there's his wife who begs to be killed...

um....

Actually that's about it. I guess you could consider Zath's First as decent? She's not that bad.

Clearly, she is a traitor to the elven race for even considering the outrageous possibility that armed conflicts are caused by both sides.
Because, as we all know, it was all about the big bad humans not wanting the elves to have any fun. I'm sure the sacking of half of Orlais had nothing do with it.
Oh wait, no elven "historian"; the guy who tells stories from memory around a campfire; has actually acknowledged it.
Never mind, scratch that.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 mai 2013 - 04:49 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

StreetMagic wrote...

Or they can shut up and make more friends. That's easier.

Not really. That seems to result in Alienages.

[BlueMagitek]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Or they can shut up and make more friends. That's easier.

Not really. That seems to result in Alienages.

It initially resulted in the Dales, actually.  Then it resulted in lands in / south of Ferelden (but the Dalish be all "f that noise, taking care of land be whack, going to Kirkwall lol").

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
It was a gradual process, and one that was harder to stay away from as humans expanded (good or bad being irrelevant on that front).

What's even more feasiable is this account is entirely bull****, and elves were never immortal. 

For a medieval-esque society, that's actually pretty high.

It's not anything special for one person to live a long-time. Proving that the elves were immortal is like proving God is real - everyone is literally making the same arguments, using the same standard of proof.

Xilizhra wrote...
Why are those contradictory? Elves seem to be a more inherently magical race than humans.

That's not proof that they were ever immortal. The dwarves are often immune to magic, but that doesn't mean that their "differenetly" mortal than the humans or qunari. This is "if aliens, then jesus" type of logic. 

And I've come up with several theories for it, such as humans being unknowing factors to spread some kind of spiritual contagion that only affects elves.

How about the theory that this is a bunch of BS like the Chantry account of history? The same kinds of evidence that you're willing to accept for this account is the kind of evidence that you (rightly and justifiably) dismiss when it comes to the Chantry's ideology. 

I just don't understand how you can be quite skeptical and pragmatic about that, and then turn around and use the same evidence to further a theory just because you happen to like it and it aligns with your sympathies. 

Modifié par In Exile, 12 mai 2013 - 05:14 .

[BouncyFrag]

I would be more inclined to help the Dalish if Bioware was to make an effort to make them more likable. Their song and dance gets old after a while.

[LobselVith8]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

And of course, he says "the longer they seem to live".  This could be related to the lifestyle, diet, anything.  It appears that you are assuming that Dalish victim fantasies are true.  Again. 

The fact that the Dalish live longer than the Alienage elves already contradicts what Kirby said, which was likely a mistake. 

Not really. The conditions in the Denerim Alienage seem to be bad for one's life, and it's stated to be one of the better ones.

The Dalish living longer than the Alienage elves is what contradicts what Kirby stated.

[The Hierophant]

Zathrian & Marethari are the only confirmed Dalish that are over 100 years old. Those two don't equal the whole of the Dalish.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 12 mai 2013 - 06:50 .

[Heimdall]

The Hierophant wrote...

Zathrian & Marethari are the only confirmed Dalish that are over 100 years old. Those two don't equal the whole of the Dalish.

Well, apparently Ilen said his father fought the Clayne tribes after the fall of the Dales... 600 years ago as I understand it.  That sounds like a writing oversight to me but some people disagree.

[LobselVith8]

StreetMagic wrote...

My theory is that the Dalish are simply butthurt, and feel a need to play the victim at all times.

I don't blame some Dalish for being untrustworthy of humans. The humans of Tevinter enslaved them and destroyed Arlthan, their history says templars invaded their kingdom of the Dales because they refused to convert, and the clans have to be nomadic because the templars hunt them down. The Andrastian kingdoms outlawed their religion and view them as heathens. Even the new ruler of Ferelden acknowledges that humans have greatly wronged the Dalish.

StreetMagic wrote...

I can't even compare that sick Halla in DAO to a Horse, without the elf getting insulted. Like saying that brings their culture down to a lower level or something. "No, the Halla is a magical special creature that can't possibly be compared, and you're a stupid Shem for even thinking it."

The Halla hold a special place for the Dalish.