731 réponses à ce sujet

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Karlone123 wrote...

"Mages sculpting dreams" I keep thinking I have heard that line in Dragon Age before. Does that line ring a a bell to anyone.

It does sound familiar. It also sounds terrifying and kind of cool at the same time!

[MisterJB]

Freddy Krueger is a somniari mage.
Semi-confirmed rumor

[Goneaviking]

Genshie wrote...
Influenced by demons/spirits or not this is just sets off so many warning bells in my head it is not even funny. Having influence to do whatever they want, influencing the world, and people around them without any consent or choice just screams bad to me. 

That's always been the position as stated by the Templars, and in both games we've encountered mages that were as bad as the mage in that page. That you haven't reacted to them in the same way may be just because we haven't been treated to them laying out their agenda in so clearly and casually without the cackling lunacy.

[Plaintiff]

If this is all it takes, your convictions can't have been that strong to begin with.

We always knew that mages had the capability to do very dangerous things.

[Genshie]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Um...The comics are not canon to the game. Why assume all mages are evil when that is NOT the case?

The comics reflect decisions made in a playthrough writer David Gaider did. Some things are certainly not canon, however some elements could be considered hard canon (e.g. Sten becomes Arishok). As Gaider is the head writer, I would say it's safe to say that the books and comics certainly reflect his ideas and vision for the series.

Thank you that is what I have been constantly repeating over and over to people saying the "COMICS/BOOKS/MOVIES ARE NOT CANON SO BLABLABA I DON'T CARE" when they should since the main guy doing all of this is the lead writer for the game. In short all of this will have some influence or share some common ground when it comes to the story.

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 12:23 .

[Genshie]

Plaintiff wrote...

If this is all it takes, your convictions can't have been that strong to begin with.

We always knew that mages had the capability to do very dangerous things.

Yes, but so far all those mages who have done dangerous things have been either A. Influenced by demons B. Influenced by spirits or C. Just plain crazy. We have had a very little interaction with Tevintar (sp?) mages and so far it tends to be the worst type of mages since they are all most definitaly not insane or being influenced.

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 12:28 .

[Genshie]

Goneaviking wrote...

Genshie wrote...
Influenced by demons/spirits or not this is just sets off so many warning bells in my head it is not even funny. Having influence to do whatever they want, influencing the world, and people around them without any consent or choice just screams bad to me. 

That's always been the position as stated by the Templars, and in both games we've encountered mages that were as bad as the mage in that page. That you haven't reacted to them in the same way may be just because we haven't been treated to them laying out their agenda in so clearly and casually without the cackling lunacy.

Yes, I do believe we need more evil moustache curling monologue.

[dragonflight288]

Genshie wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Genshie wrote...
Influenced by demons/spirits or not this is just sets off so many warning bells in my head it is not even funny. Having influence to do whatever they want, influencing the world, and people around them without any consent or choice just screams bad to me. 

That's always been the position as stated by the Templars, and in both games we've encountered mages that were as bad as the mage in that page. That you haven't reacted to them in the same way may be just because we haven't been treated to them laying out their agenda in so clearly and casually without the cackling lunacy.

Yes, I do believe we need more evil moustache curling monologue.

Don't forget mad cackling and a cape/robe that swirls in a cool manner when making a dramatic exit!

[Genshie]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Genshie wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Genshie wrote...
Influenced by demons/spirits or not this is just sets off so many warning bells in my head it is not even funny. Having influence to do whatever they want, influencing the world, and people around them without any consent or choice just screams bad to me. 

That's always been the position as stated by the Templars, and in both games we've encountered mages that were as bad as the mage in that page. That you haven't reacted to them in the same way may be just because we haven't been treated to them laying out their agenda in so clearly and casually without the cackling lunacy.

Yes, I do believe we need more evil moustache curling monologue.

Don't forget mad cackling and a cape/robe that swirls in a cool manner when making a dramatic exit!

Why not just throw in black top hat just for good measure too!

[OdanUrr]

Genshie wrote...

I know its not cannon I just said if we have to face someone like this particular mage in DA3. Just because it is not cannon doesn't mean it won't have some influence. Same goes for Dawn of the Seekers movie. I haven't read the novels myself but I have read alot of spoilers here and there from others. It just seems like a lot of other mediums for the Dragon Age series have been painting a lot of the mages in a bad light lately.

You'll find deranged people everywhere, not just within the mage community.

[Genshie]

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I know its not cannon I just said if we have to face someone like this particular mage in DA3. Just because it is not cannon doesn't mean it won't have some influence. Same goes for Dawn of the Seekers movie. I haven't read the novels myself but I have read alot of spoilers here and there from others. It just seems like a lot of other mediums for the Dragon Age series have been painting a lot of the mages in a bad light lately.

You'll find deranged people everywhere, not just within the mage community.

That wasn't my point. The baddies tend to always eventually fall in a line that leads to mages being the core reason behind the problem(s).

[OdanUrr]

Genshie wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I know its not cannon I just said if we have to face someone like this particular mage in DA3. Just because it is not cannon doesn't mean it won't have some influence. Same goes for Dawn of the Seekers movie. I haven't read the novels myself but I have read alot of spoilers here and there from others. It just seems like a lot of other mediums for the Dragon Age series have been painting a lot of the mages in a bad light lately.

You'll find deranged people everywhere, not just within the mage community.

That wasn't my point. The baddies tend to always eventually fall in a line that leads to mages being the core reason behind the problem(s).

Um, could you elaborate?

[Genshie]

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I know its not cannon I just said if we have to face someone like this particular mage in DA3. Just because it is not cannon doesn't mean it won't have some influence. Same goes for Dawn of the Seekers movie. I haven't read the novels myself but I have read alot of spoilers here and there from others. It just seems like a lot of other mediums for the Dragon Age series have been painting a lot of the mages in a bad light lately.

You'll find deranged people everywhere, not just within the mage community.

That wasn't my point. The baddies tend to always eventually fall in a line that leads to mages being the core reason behind the problem(s).

Um, could you elaborate?

Blight started because of mages, this new Mage templar war caused by Anders who is also a mage, Legacy all those possesed being influenced by one of those mages who had connections to the invasion on the Golden city, and list goes on and on. Dawn of the Seeker events main antagonist...Oh look more mages. The curse that turned the elves in to Werewolves DAO also caused by a mage. Murderer in DA2 that attack all those women for their parts to assemble a likeness of his former wife also a mage.

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 01:48 .

[azarhal]

Howe was totally an evil mage, so was Vaughan. Abusing others, stealing, murdering, conquering, seeing everyone like pets to be enslaved and used is something only mages do in Thedas. /sarcasm

Titus is a crazy power-hungry megalomaniac who think he can get away with it. The only difference is that he doesn't need an army (wait, no, he have one) or money (wait, no, he's rich) to achieve his goal. Just his natural magic talent (wait, no, his powers come from a magical orb powered up by a non-mage's 'dragon' blood).  Titus isn't even special, Meredith had superpowers from a magical relic too and she wasn't even a mage.

[Genshie]

azarhal wrote...

Howe was totally an evil mage, so was Vaughan. Abusing others, stealing, murdering, conquering, seeing everyone like pets to be enslaved and used is something only mages do in Thedas. /sarcasm

Titus is a crazy power-hungry megalomaniac who think he can get away with it. The only difference is that he doesn't need an army (wait, no, he have one) or money (wait, no, he's rich) to achieve his goal. Just his natural magic talent (wait, no, his powers come from a magical orb powered up by a non-mage's 'dragon' blood).  Titus isn't even special, Meredith had superpowers from a magical relic too and she wasn't even a mage.

We are talking about major events those guys were minor foot notes besides Titus maybe. Meredith granted went over the edge but I would easily say that Anders was that final kick that she needed. I don't consider Howe that big and his role wasn't really that of major one at all his son has been doing more than he ever did especially if you played Awakening and did the quest in DA2 where he makes a camoe and spills the beans on a new odd ally with the Wardens.

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 02:25 .

[OdanUrr]

Genshie wrote...

Blight started because of mages, this new Mage templar war caused by Anders who is also a mage, Legacy all those possesed being influenced by one of those mages who had connections to the invasion on the Golden city, and list goes on and on. Dawn of the Seeker events main antagonist...Oh look more mages. The curse that turned the elves in to Werewolves DAO also caused by a mage. Murderer in DA2 that attack all those women for their parts to assemble a likeness of his former wife also a mage.

I'd like to point out a few things. First, and unless I'm mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me), the only source of information about the Blight's origins is the Chantry, and I wouldn't categorize it as an objective one. I'm not saying mages weren't involved, just that the Chantry is not an unbiased source of information, particularly where mages are involved.

This new Mage-Templar war wasn't caused by Anders, he was simply the latest to pour fuel into the fire, as it were. The war was caused by abuses of power on both sides over a long period of time. On the one hand, you have mages using blood magic or becoming abominations to free themselves from their templar overlords, and on the other you have templars using excessive, and sometimes misplaced, force because of this. It's a neverending cycle of mistrust and violence. You could argue, certainly, that Anders' actions sped up events to its shatterpoint, thus acting as a sort of catalyst.

Yes, magic can be turned to evil purposes but that doesn't mean all mages are evil. Loghain left his king to die alongside his troops and Grey Wardens. Arl Howe murdered a family and who knows how many more people in his lust for power. Templars have been prone to abuses of authority from time to time. None of these characters have magic, yet they too commit atrocious acts. Naturally, the more power a character has, the more damage s/he can cause.

That's probably why DA2 irked me so much. It went to such great lengths to depict mages as psychos that it was beyond silly at times. That scene where a mage uses your mother as a template to re-create his dead spouse? It wasn't disturbing, it didn't make me angry or sad, it just made me roll my eyes in exasperation at how heavy-handed the delivery was.

And therein lies the problem. The more you focus on trying to get your point across that all mages are evil, power-hungry psychos, the less believable your world becomes and the less interested I am. Constantly re-telling the story of "the evil wizard" is just not original anymore and loses its appeal when you make him a unidimensional character with an even more unidimensional line of reasoning.

But that's just my opinion.

[Genshie]

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

Blight started because of mages, this new Mage templar war caused by Anders who is also a mage, Legacy all those possesed being influenced by one of those mages who had connections to the invasion on the Golden city, and list goes on and on. Dawn of the Seeker events main antagonist...Oh look more mages. The curse that turned the elves in to Werewolves DAO also caused by a mage. Murderer in DA2 that attack all those women for their parts to assemble a likeness of his former wife also a mage.

And therein lies the problem. The more you focus on trying to get your point across that all mages are evil, power-hungry psychos, the less believable your world becomes and the less interested I am. Constantly re-telling the story of "the evil wizard" is just not original anymore and loses its appeal when you make him a unidimensional character with an even more unidimensional line of reasoning.

But that's just my opinion.

And you just brought up the point and reason why I made this thread. The mage depicted in this strip is not by any means look or sound crazy. He does sound evil that is one thing we can agree on. It is just that we haven't had hardly any situations where in game that we had to deal with a sane evil mage and one that knows what he is doing and what he wants. Other mages that we have dealt with up to this point have normally always been influenced by something, someone, and or been pushed into a corner. (Which is why I have been pro-mage for the longest time since most mages have been doing things that they were forced to or influenced by others to do and have had no say in the matter)

Modifié par Genshie, 01 mai 2013 - 03:06 .

[garrusfan1]

well some mages are evil but most are good. it is the same as anyone but mages can do more damage

[Boost32]

OdanUrr wrote...

I'd like to point out a few things. First, and unless I'm mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me), the only source of information about the Blight's origins is the Chantry, and I wouldn't categorize it as an objective one. I'm not saying mages weren't involved, just that the Chantry is not an unbiased source of information, particularly where mages are involved.

have you heard about Corypheus?

[azarhal]

Genshie wrote...

azarhal wrote...

Howe was totally an evil mage, so was Vaughan. Abusing others, stealing, murdering, conquering, seeing everyone like pets to be enslaved and used is something only mages do in Thedas. /sarcasm

Titus is a crazy power-hungry megalomaniac who think he can get away with it. The only difference is that he doesn't need an army (wait, no, he have one) or money (wait, no, he's rich) to achieve his goal. Just his natural magic talent (wait, no, his powers come from a magical orb powered up by a non-mage's 'dragon' blood).  Titus isn't even special, Meredith had superpowers from a magical relic too and she wasn't even a mage.

We are talking about major events those guys were minor foot notes besides Titus maybe. Meredith granted went over the edge but I would easily say that Anders was that final kick that she needed. I don't consider Howe that big and his role wasn't really that of major one at all his son has been doing more than he ever did especially if you played Awakening and did the quest in DA2 where he makes a camoe and spills the beans on a new odd ally with the Wardens.

Howe and Loghain have both killed more people and conquered more land than Titus have so far. Screentime doesn't equal achievements. The only thing Titus have done is the standard megalomaniac's speech and display cool powers. Hell, Varric shooting the orb have more to do with them being in the Fade seeing their own desires and nigthmares than Titus's power do.

Meredith final kick was Elthina being dead, which allowed to call the Right of Annullement on the circle. She already asked Elthina (and the Divine) to be granted that right before Act 3. In other word, she always wanted to kill all the mages. Going by her action, Meredith was probably planning to "remove" Elthina from office. Kirkwall's events would have happened without Anders...with probably more deads, Meredith's Templars were already killing "mage sympathizers" in Act 3.

OdanUrr wrote...

Genshie wrote...

Blight started because of mages,

I'd
like to point out a few things. First, and unless I'm mistaken (in
which case, feel free to correct me), the only source of information
about the Blight's origins is the Chantry, and I wouldn't categorize it
as an objective one. I'm not saying mages weren't involved, just that
the Chantry is not an unbiased source of information, particularly where
mages are involved.

World of Thedas confirmed that the "Blight started by mages" was propaganda started by the Orlesian Chantry after the 3rd-Blight to increase anti-mage and anti-Tevinter opinions in all controlled Orlesian Chantry land.

Also, DA2 have 2 serial killers. One is a mages, but the other one wasn't, both were crazy.

Modifié par azarhal, 01 mai 2013 - 03:34 .

[OdanUrr]

Boost32 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

I'd like to point out a few things. First, and unless I'm mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me), the only source of information about the Blight's origins is the Chantry, and I wouldn't categorize it as an objective one. I'm not saying mages weren't involved, just that the Chantry is not an unbiased source of information, particularly where mages are involved.

have you heard about Corypheus?

That guy from Legacy, right? What about him?

[Sir JK]

azarhal wrote...

World of Thedas confirmed that the "Blight started by mages" was propaganda started by the Orlesian Chantry after the 3rd-Blight to increase anti-mage and anti-Tevinter opinions in all controlled Orlesian Chantry land.

Not quite correct. They certainly promoted that story after the third exalted march (which is when the true divide between the imperium and Orlais rears it's head) but the story on how the Blight was started by mages is neatly written in the Canticle of Threonides (verse 8 to be precise) which is as old as the Chant of Light itself.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The whole thing about the mages going after the golden city and causing the blight was largely confirmed by the Legacy DLC. However this doesn't mean I'm going to jump aboard the Templar support bandwagon. Magic is power and power will always tempt people that's nothing new and doesn't mean stripping away the rights of everyone who might pose a threat is the answer. If Kirkwall thought us anything is that oppressing all mages as suspects tends to make them seek power as means of escape, leading a perpetual cycle.

The Templar's aren't entirely wrong but their methods are far from effective, and giving mages free reign is risky, a compromise is needed between the groups. Maybe having the mages largely police themselves, while Templar back them up in investigating suspect mages. When a corrupt mage is discovered both mages and templars take action against him or her, it really needs to stop being an us vs them mentality if you want results that people can live with. /personal view

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 01 mai 2013 - 04:22 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

OdanUrr wrote...

Boost32 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

I'd like to point out a few things. First, and unless I'm mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me), the only source of information about the Blight's origins is the Chantry, and I wouldn't categorize it as an objective one. I'm not saying mages weren't involved, just that the Chantry is not an unbiased source of information, particularly where mages are involved.

have you heard about Corypheus?

That guy from Legacy, right? What about him?

He was one of the Original Darkspawn, and a magister of Tevinter.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

People come in all shapes and sizes - some are down right evil, some are good, some are crazy, some are mischievous, etc. That means some mages have to be evil as well. To have not believed mages could be evil is naive. However, that doesn't mean all mages are evil.

By the way, many mages agree that there needs to be some sort of mechanism in place to protect against situations like this. (In Legend of the Seeker, it was a mage who helped Cassandra stop the plot.) The problem is that the current mechanism isn't working. Imagine a slightly different templar/mage relationship. Can you see a place where mage children are taught that they are not evil, families are welcome to join the children (with stipends) and templars are taught to see that mages are humans as well?