Historically speaking, yes. The winner gets to decide whether they're terrorists or freedom fighters (I consider Anders the latter).Did you just say terrorists are heroes when they win wars?
*scratches head*
A creed whose spirit is lived up to... exactly zero times in our own world, and it's no better in Thedas.Do you have that in writing?
As I understand it, the Templars as an order are dedicated to protecting mages from themselves.
EntropicAngel wrote...
Rassler wrote...
Well a good mage victory concept would mean total defeat of templars and chantry and if that happens a person who blew up a chantry is NOT a terrorist but a hero.
Did you just say terrorists are heroes when they win wars?
*scratches head*
Modifié par KainD, 01 mai 2013 - 10:13 .
While true, I think you're confusing your franchises.KainD wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
Rassler wrote...
Well a good mage victory concept would mean total defeat of templars and chantry and if that happens a person who blew up a chantry is NOT a terrorist but a hero.
Did you just say terrorists are heroes when they win wars?
*scratches head*
Anderson is not a terrorist.
EntropicAngel wrote...
As I understand it, the Templars as an order are dedicated to protecting mages from themselves.
Xilizhra wrote...
While true, I think you're confusing your franchises.
Historically speaking, yes. In civil wars between two competing governments, the winners will typically make it known that they were their countries one true legitimate government all along and that their defeated rivals were terrorists.EntropicAngel wrote...
Did you just say terrorists are heroes when they win wars?Rassler wrote...
Well a good mage victory concept would mean total defeat of templars and chantry and if that happens a person who blew up a chantry is NOT a terrorist but a hero.
*scratches head*
Nice attempted revisionism. The dissenters were the Loyalists, who are under a third of the mage population, along with the tiny Lucrosian and Isolationist factions. The Aequitarians, who are a definite plurality of the mage population and maybe even a slim majority all on their own, voted for war along with the second-largest faction, the Libertarians.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Actually a large part of the mages wanted to stay in the Circles. 49% practically. Yet, some dick of a mage, decided to make the decission for them, and force them into a war, they wanted no part of to begin with.
EntropicAngel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
The templars are dedicated, as an order, to nothing but the oppression and/or extermination of mages. There never could be any peace and never was; the numerous Annulments were only the times when the cold war was hot.
Do you have that in writing?
As I understand it, the Templars as an order are dedicated to protecting mages from themselves.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
Historically speaking, yes. The winner gets to decide whether they're terrorists or freedom fighters (I consider Anders the latter).
A creed whose spirit is lived up to... exactly zero times in our own world, and it's no better in Thedas.
Where there are two sides there's usually also something connecting them. There is always a middle path and only ignorants doesn't recognize it in favor of one side. Black and white always have shades of grey between them, etc.Xilizhra wrote...
The templars are dedicated, as an order, to nothing but the oppression and/or extermination of mages. There never could be any peace and never was; the numerous Annulments were only the times when the cold war was hot.Knight of Dane wrote...
Of course there can.Xilizhra wrote...
There can be no coexistence, unless the templars were literally reprogrammed into benevolent guardians.Knight of Dane wrote...
No a good mage victory would mean acceptance by templars and the chantry
I do not consider Anders a terrorist.I questioned his/her statement because it looked like they were advocating it, not merely stating the way the waorld works.
When the creed is only ever used as a tool of abuse, it is a tainted creed that fails to operate properly with human nature.I disagree regarding Ferelden, but regardless: the fact that the creed is not exemplified condemns those who follow it, not the creed itself.
Yes, and the gray consists of giving templars a chance to surrender. I know the temptation to just kill them all regardless, but I'm more merciful than that.Where there are two sides there's usually also something connecting
them. There is always a middle path and only ignorants doesn't recognize
it in favor of one side. Black and white always have shades of grey
between them, etc.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 mai 2013 - 10:20 .
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
KainD wrote...
Anders is not a terrorist.
Specifically to inspire fear in the civilian populace, something Anders was not about.EntropicAngel wrote...
KainD wrote...
Anders is not a terrorist.
I think he kind of is. He didn't blow up the chantry because he disliked the Grand Cleric. He blew it up to force a political scenario. That's exactly what terrorists do in real life.
That's why it all came down to a single vote... Obviously a large part of the Aequitarians didn't want the war either.Xilizhra wrote...
Nice attempted revisionism. The dissenters were the Loyalists, who are under a third of the mage population, along with the tiny Lucrosian and Isolationist factions. The Aequitarians, who are a definite plurality of the mage population and maybe even a slim majority all on their own, voted for war along with the second-largest faction, the Libertarians.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Actually a large part of the mages wanted to stay in the Circles. 49% practically. Yet, some dick of a mage, decided to make the decission for them, and force them into a war, they wanted no part of to begin with.
Guest_Puddi III_*
Or do its repeated failures show it to be an unrealistic, impractical creed? Say, communism.EntropicAngel wrote...
I disagree regarding Ferelden, but regardless: the fact that the creed is not exemplified condemns those who follow it, not the creed itself.
THe purpose of terrorism is not neccesarily to inspire fear. It is however to use the fear and action inspires to push a political agenda. So the objective of a terror action is not to merely cause fear, it is to use the fear caused to bring attention to an agenda. SOmething Anders was very much about. Anders was a terrorist.Xilizhra wrote...
Specifically to inspire fear in the civilian populace, something Anders was not about.EntropicAngel wrote...
KainD wrote...
Anders is not a terrorist.
I think he kind of is. He didn't blow up the chantry because he disliked the Grand Cleric. He blew it up to force a political scenario. That's exactly what terrorists do in real life.
It came down to a single vote because none of the Aequitarians had voted yet. Probably for dramatic reasons, as whichever side the Aequitarians went for was going to win the vote.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
That's why it all came down to a single vote... Obviously a large part of the Aequitarians didn't want the war either.Xilizhra wrote...
Nice attempted revisionism. The dissenters were the Loyalists, who are under a third of the mage population, along with the tiny Lucrosian and Isolationist factions. The Aequitarians, who are a definite plurality of the mage population and maybe even a slim majority all on their own, voted for war along with the second-largest faction, the Libertarians.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Actually a large part of the mages wanted to stay in the Circles. 49% practically. Yet, some dick of a mage, decided to make the decission for them, and force them into a war, they wanted no part of to begin with.
Doesn't terrorism require a legal definition that's not present in Thedas anyway? Though even if you do consider him such, I believe his cause is far more just than that of any IRL terrorists I know of.THe purpose of terrorism is not neccesarily to inspire fear. It is
however to use the fear and action inspires to push a political agenda.
So the objective of a terror action is not to merely cause fear, it is
to use the fear caused to bring attention to an agenda. SOmething Anders
was very much about. Anders was a terrorist.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 mai 2013 - 10:25 .
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
I do not consider Anders a terrorist.
When the creed is only ever used as a tool of abuse, it is a tainted creed that fails to operate properly with human nature.
Modifié par EntropicAngel, 01 mai 2013 - 10:24 .
There's an idea that's not necessarily bad... but the religious aspects of the templars have to be destroyed, among other things, and the original creed crushed.Not so. What's wrong with the creed itself? Can you name any one thing? No, the complaints are about the way the Templars enforce the creed. Again, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater--poor implementation doesn't mean the idea itself is bad.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
Specifically to inspire fear in the civilian populace, something Anders was not about.
Miriam Webster says...
terrorism:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Filament wrote...
Or do its repeated failures show it to be an unrealistic, impractical creed? Say, communism.
High explosives were Anders' method. And the emotion induced was primarily rage.Terror is not the goal. It never is. Terror is the method. Terror was the method Anders used.
And this system creates a system of biologically-based prisoners and guards who are trained in a religion that fears and hates the prisoners, and expects it not to be abusive... or, more accurately, doesn't care.Communism is an unrealistic, unpractical creed for very definite
reasons, not simply because it hasn't worked so far. Communism fails
because it relies on human goodwill, on humans not being inherently lazy
and/or greedy. These assumptions are untrue, thus communism fails.
Nothing to do with history itself.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 mai 2013 - 10:32 .
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
There's an idea that's not necessarily bad... but the religious aspects of the templars have to be destroyed, among other things, and the original creed crushed.
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