322 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

*LOL*

Why oh why do people ignore TEVINTER?

You do realize that people would ALREADY be wanting to kill mages because of Tevinter right?

[LobselVith8]

Bleachrude wrote...

*LOL*

Why oh why do people ignore TEVINTER?

You do realize that people would ALREADY be wanting to kill mages because of Tevinter right?

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter, and don't vilify magic or mages like the Andrastian Chantry has for almost a millennia?

[Dave of Canada]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter

Because they have different social structures which can't be emulated by larger socities and have their own problems which you're conviently ignoring.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 mai 2013 - 05:34 .

[Fallstar]

To answer the OP, depends on the context. I would give mages freedom and remove the Templars as an entity. Probably.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter

Because they have different social structures which can't be emulated by larger socities and have their own problems which you're conviently ignoring. 

You mean they don't vilify mages or magic, which is the point. Tevinter didn't cause these societies to hate mages or magic. Even the kingdom of the Dales had free mages, and they didn't emulate Tevinter, while the remanants of their society also have a respect for magic; also, their mages aren't controlled.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Actually all of the barbarians are terrified of magic, they respect it, but they fear it. And the Dales went on a war of conquest against Orlais.. seems to me they were trying to emulate Tevinter...

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter

Because they have different social structures which can't be emulated by larger socities and have their own problems which you're conviently ignoring.

yeah wich transforms them in desperate have nothing to lose guys who destroy everything on they way because they are thougt that tey are evil sure better than greedy ****.
First guy you must stop oh "tevinter bad because mages are evil!!!" see Orlais or your corrupted chantry its like saying oooo noo this is russian he will create communism.First that not mages are corrupted that Tevinter makes them corrupted like chantry makes them desperate and templars fanatics.Look on casteless they are criminal because their must be criminals becuse they country is constructed that way. 

Down: You talk about that mages can't be on high position because they are mages?You want say that guy who heal by touching will be not high-ranked medic?They not forcing them to be their leaders they are probably choosen to be them so i don't see problem.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 02 mai 2013 - 06:13 .

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter, and don't vilify magic or mages like the Andrastian Chantry has for almost a millennia?

Ah... I've been waiting for this argument again.

What does all these cultures (Chasind, Dalish, Rivain, Tevinter and Avvar (like Haven is)) have in common besides tolerating mages?

Mages are also in a ruling position. Rivain has their seers as honoured advisors and spiritual guides. Chasind and Avvar follow their shamans. Tevinter have their magisters and the Dalish their keepers.

But in the Orlesian (Ciriane), Fereldan (Alamarri), Antivan, Marcher (Planasene) and Ander cultures the warriors are in the ruling position. 

So while we could use the non-Tevinter pro-mage cultures, won't we hit the same barrier anyways? The same core issue sits there right in the square middle.
How do you get the Andrastian warrior cultures to accept mages as equals without it leading to mages ending up in the ruling position? I suspect that this is the true root of the mage-nonmage conflict that rocks Thedas.

And yes... I did not mention Nevarra. Mostly because I'm not too clear on just how much power the Mortalitisi hold. Lots of it, certainly. They seem to be sitting in the advisor/power behind the throne position. Question is if they have more power than that or not.

[Nightdragon8]

Sir JK wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why do some people ignore the societies with free mages that don't emulate Tevinter, and don't vilify magic or mages like the Andrastian Chantry has for almost a millennia?

Ah... I've been waiting for this argument again.

What does all these cultures (Chasind, Dalish, Rivain, Tevinter and Avvar (like Haven is)) have in common besides tolerating mages?

Mages are also in a ruling position. Rivain has their seers as honoured advisors and spiritual guides. Chasind and Avvar follow their shamans. Tevinter have their magisters and the Dalish their keepers.

But in the Orlesian (Ciriane), Fereldan (Alamarri), Antivan, Marcher (Planasene) and Ander cultures the warriors are in the ruling position. 

So while we could use the non-Tevinter pro-mage cultures, won't we hit the same barrier anyways? The same core issue sits there right in the square middle.
How do you get the Andrastian warrior cultures to accept mages as equals without it leading to mages ending up in the ruling position? I suspect that this is the true root of the mage-nonmage conflict that rocks Thedas.

And yes... I did not mention Nevarra. Mostly because I'm not too clear on just how much power the Mortalitisi hold. Lots of it, certainly. They seem to be sitting in the advisor/power behind the throne position. Question is if they have more power than that or not.

I'm half asleep and don't care about the conquininces of what I am going to say.

So basicly we need a system where non-warriors and non-mages have a chance... basicly we need a dimocary. But we need one with anti-magic booths to prevent bloodmagic from being used, (well mainly that book thing in DA:O mage tower thing.) So insted of a warrior or mage, we get soemthing much much worse.... the CON-MAN

[Jugo616]

 The outcome I want is a total victory of the mage rebels, that developes in to the compleate anahilation of the chantry system and procedes into a succesfull genocide of all non magic users. (Exept for dwarfs. Dwarfs are awesome).

[azarhal]

Sir JK wrote...

And yes... I did not mention Nevarra. Mostly because I'm not too clear on just how much power the Mortalitisi hold. Lots of it, certainly. They seem to be sitting in the advisor/power behind the throne position. Question is if they have more power than that or not.

Nevarra is at the limit of Chantry's law with those mages, there is even propaganda against them (outside of Nevarra). Nevarra probably try to avoid pissing off the Chantry, so the Order try to keep a low profile (doesn't stop them being everywhere in the Royal Palace). Also, the Starkhaven Ambassador's letter suggest they are blood related to the King too (if I read it properly).

Considering how often they are mentioned, I expect to see them in DA3. The extremist among the Templars will probably want to have them "removed" and I can seem them support the "circle mages" too.

[Sir JK]

azarhal wrote...

Nevarra is at the limit of Chantry's law with those mages, there is even propaganda against them (outside of Nevarra). Nevarra probably try to avoid pissing off the Chantry, so the Order try to keep a low profile (doesn't stop them being everywhere in the Royal Palace). Also, the Starkhaven Ambassador's letter suggest they are blood related to the King too (if I read it properly).

Considering how often they are mentioned, I expect to see them in DA3. The extremist among the Templars will probably want to have them "removed" and I can seem them support the "circle mages" too.

Oh, I agree that we'll probably see them and they'll be important (Nevarran succession related, perhaps?) Maybe even one of the inevitable mage companions (I'm kind of hoping for that actually)?

And yes, it's possible they'd support the rebellion. But also keep in mind that with a circle in place they have power, luxury, the freedom to act as they see fit without templar oversight and, most importantly, no competition.

With free mages they'd actually have to share power. Maybe they think that's worth it. Or maybe they don't... not everyone's an altruist after all.

[azarhal]

Sir JK wrote...

And yes, it's possible they'd support the rebellion. But also keep in mind that with a circle in place they have power, luxury, the freedom to act as they see fit without templar oversight and, most importantly, no competition.

With free mages they'd actually have to share power. Maybe they think that's worth it. Or maybe they don't... not everyone's an altruist after all.

Competition, for what? Their job is making mummies...

[Sir JK]

azarhal wrote...

Competition, for what? Their job is making mummies...

And through this becoming the advisors of high nobility and kings...

[MisterJB]

And given the fact this practice was extablished by a Tevinter and it makes the mummies especially subsceptible to corpse reanimation and it has been going on for generations, I predict an army of countless dead rising in DAI with Tevinter using it to crush Nevarra.
Maybe we will have to stop it and place Cassandra on the throne.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 mai 2013 - 08:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Jugo616 wrote...

 The outcome I want is a total victory of the mage rebels, that developes in to the compleate anahilation of the chantry system and procedes into a succesfull genocide of all non magic users. (Exept for dwarfs. Dwarfs are awesome).

I'm sure you make allies everywhere you go..

[MichaelStuart]

I was just planing to kill alot of people until they stop killing each other.

[azarhal]

MisterJB wrote...

And given the fact this practice was extablished by a Tevinter and it makes the mummies especially subsceptible to corpse reanimation and it has been going on for generations, I predict an army of countless dead rising in DAI with Tevinter using it to crush Nevarra.
Maybe we will have to stop it and place Cassandra on the throne.

I personally think that those mummies are more like the secret Nevarran's army. Their own Legion of the Dead...

[MisterJB]

azarhal wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

And given the fact this practice was extablished by a Tevinter and it makes the mummies especially subsceptible to corpse reanimation and it has been going on for generations, I predict an army of countless dead rising in DAI with Tevinter using it to crush Nevarra.
Maybe we will have to stop it and place Cassandra on the throne.

I personally think that those mummies are more like the secret Nevarran's army. Their own Legion of the Dead...

That might be more likely.
The alternative is that all nevarrans are simply too dumb to survive. In a continent where mages can create their own Walking Dead and with an agressive, expansionist empire ruled by mages as your neighbor, it would be unwise, to say the very least, to keep the corpses of your deceased in condition pristine enough to kill you.
It's a zombie apocalypse waiting to happen unless the zombies just so happen to be working for you.

[Senya]

I predict a schism in the Order where a faction of the Mortalitaxi, perhaps led by one who is related to the Royal Family and seeks the throne, attempts to take over with an army of the undead while the Nevarrans, loyal Mortlitaxi, and Templars (if they're convinced to work with Mages) fight them.

Or, some Mage did something stupid to attract attention from the Fade and a Pride Demon leads its bretheren in posessing a bunch of corpses with said Pride Demon possessing the Mage.

[andrew252]

Kill em all, short sweet and simple

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually all of the barbarians are terrified of magic, they respect it, but they fear it. And the Dales went on a war of conquest against Orlais.. seems to me they were trying to emulate Tevinter...

The Chasind are governed by shamans and revere the Witches of the Wild, who they believe taught the early shamans magic. They celebrate the story of Flemeth. It's noted that mages aren't controlled among the Chasind or the Dalish. The history of the Dalish reads that the Chantry invaded the kingdom of the Dales with templars because the elves wouldn't convert; the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for this reason as well. Retaliating against an empire with a history of conquest doesn't make the Dales like Tevinter.

[BlueMagitek]

The history of the Dalish? The one that falsely claims immortality and that humans are the scourge of theirs by just existing nearby?

Yeah, I'll take that with a few mines worth of salt.

Anyway, my ideal outcome for the Mage v Templar thing mostly involves the Fiora (or was it Fiona?) and her cronies dead, the mages back in Circles that strive to emulate the Circle Tower model.

[EdwinLi]

BlueMagitek wrote...

The history of the Dalish? The one that falsely claims immortality and that humans are the scourge of theirs by just existing nearby?

Yeah, I'll take that with a few mines worth of salt.

Anyway, my ideal outcome for the Mage v Templar thing mostly involves the Fiora (or was it Fiona?) and her cronies dead, the mages back in Circles that strive to emulate the Circle Tower model.

I still say we build a new circle that actually follow the philosophy of "Magic is to serve man and not rule them"

The old circle did not follow this which is why this whole thing happened. Magic became a tool for the Templars to use and allowed them to slowly rule through fear of magic. No one would question a templar becuase they are seen as the world protectors but as we have seen the Templars have falling even more deeper into greed and corruption because they have gain too much influence by using the fear of Magic to build up their power in the world.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 03 mai 2013 - 03:16 .

[BlueMagitek]

EdwinLi wrote...
I still say we build a new circle that actually follow the philosphy of "Magic is to serve man and not rule them"

The old circle did not follow this which is why this whole thing happened. Magic became a tool for the Templars to use and allowed them to slowly rule through fear of magic. No one would question a templar becuase they are seen as the world protectors but as we have seen the Templars have falling even more deeper into greed and corruption because they have gain too much influence by using the fear of Magic to build up their power in the world.

I often find that certain posters seem to be replacing what happens in game with their own personal warped headcanon.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.  Even in Act 1 of DA2, where Mages & Templar go crazy, people were shutting the door in the face of Templar rather than help them.  The wretched populace refused to help them root out Anders because of his clinic. 

In DA:O, you have examples like Bryant, Gregoire and Otto.  You have the addled but devoted Templar guarding the Chantry doors.  You even have two other Knight Commanders, one who is bribable and the other who is not, in Redcliffe & Denerim.  Please provide examples of these Templar using influence to harm Circle mages or the populace.