143 réponses à ce sujet

[RPGmom28]

I think it's the whole Sims 3 Store and EA thing. It doesn't surprise me that it would be carried over into another game.

[Jolly Teaparty]

eisberg77 wrote...

Jolly Teaparty wrote...
What is weird about them is that the packages are kind of pointless.

Umm what?  As far as I can tell, all the packages have points in them.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Jolly Teaparty wrote...



400pts for £3.40 = 1.2p per point

1600pts for £13.60 = 1.2p per point

Also...

eisberg77 wrote...

Also, if there was a discount for buying a higher package, people would feel they would need to buy those packages, and then might end up having left over points that they may not need.

This practice would surprise you? Sounds a lot like good business to me.

Modifié par Jolly Teaparty, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[marshalleck]

SwashbucklerXX wrote...

The complaint here isn't that there is buyable DLC.  It's a complaint against "point" systems, which from the consumer's point of view serve no purpose but to obscure how much you're actually paying for things, and/or to force customers to buy more "points" than they actually need for transactions.

Except that hasn't happened yet with the Bioware points. Warden's Keep costs 560 points, and you can buy 560 points.

[AbueloShika]

I always assumed the primary reason behind points was to cover up fluctuations in the exchange rate. By using a virtual curreny to charge you for DLCs they avoid the negative response that Steam has in charging you £10 for something that costs $10

[daem3an]

I'm ok with it as long as I can buy 'only' the points I want to spend. If the system works like Microsoft points, where I can only buy specific amounts and so always end up spending more than the item I'm buying, forget it. That's a scam.

[nicethugbert]

The only point system I use is the American Dollar System: centi-dollar, half deci-dollar, deci-dolar, quarter dollar, half dollar, dollar, 5 dollar, ........

[Grevier]

Well, there's a positive part in this, if you buy more points in one shot, then when youve done buying all the dlcs you'll find out that you had a discount when others used to buy some points time by time for the dlcs, cuze more points costs at the end less money

Modifié par Grevier, 28 novembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[marshalleck]

I'd like to know where you people were when the points/DLC model started emerging years ago, when this debate and moral indignation could have actually influenced the course of events?

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 06:17 .

[MerinTB]

marshalleck wrote...

I'd like to know where you people were when the points/DLC model started emerging years ago, when this debate and moral indignation could have actually influenced the course of events?

Part of this may be that many of the people who bought Dragon Age are not the kind of gamers who were exposed to the whole DLC / points system before.

I hadn't run into it until probably several months after I got my 360 (which I bought for Mass Effect only) and if I had known Mass Effect was coming out for the PC I would never have bought a 360 and then wouldn't have encountered the buying points thing until Fallout 3 came out. *shrug*

That said, this is the same sad arguments that happened when everything started needing a credit card, or internet access, or an HDTV, or a new game system, or an e-book reader.

Things change.   You can hold onto your "cash only" purchasing, your LP records, and your print newspapers tightly and long for the good ol' days - and you will still be crushed by digital purchases, MP3 handhelds, and Kindles.

Things change.

[marshalleck]

MerinTB wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I'd like to know where you people were when the points/DLC model started emerging years ago, when this debate and moral indignation could have actually influenced the course of events?

Part of this may be that many of the people who bought Dragon Age are not the kind of gamers who were exposed to the whole DLC / points system before.

I hadn't run into it until probably several months after I got my 360 (which I bought for Mass Effect only) and if I had known Mass Effect was coming out for the PC I would never have bought a 360 and then wouldn't have encountered the buying points thing until Fallout 3 came out. *shrug*

That said, this is the same sad arguments that happened when everything started needing a credit card, or internet access, or an HDTV, or a new game system, or an e-book reader.

Things change.   You can hold onto your "cash only" purchasing, your LP records, and your print newspapers tightly and long for the good ol' days - and you will still be crushed by digital purchases, MP3 handhelds, and Kindles.

Things change.

Indeed they do. I'm surprised that someone could look at this debate back when it was still broiling amongst console gamers, and say "well I play on PC, that will never affect me." But perhaps they weren't paying any attention at all.

Live and learn I guess.

[MerinTB]

marshalleck wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I'd like to know where you people were when the points/DLC model started emerging years ago, when this debate and moral indignation could have actually influenced the course of events?

Part of this may be that many of the people who bought Dragon Age are not the kind of gamers who were exposed to the whole DLC / points system before.

I hadn't run into it until probably several months after I got my 360 (which I bought for Mass Effect only) and if I had known Mass Effect was coming out for the PC I would never have bought a 360 and then wouldn't have encountered the buying points thing until Fallout 3 came out. *shrug*

That said, this is the same sad arguments that happened when everything started needing a credit card, or internet access, or an HDTV, or a new game system, or an e-book reader.

Things change.   You can hold onto your "cash only" purchasing, your LP records, and your print newspapers tightly and long for the good ol' days - and you will still be crushed by digital purchases, MP3 handhelds, and Kindles.

Things change.

Indeed they do. I'm surprised that someone could look at this debate back when it was still broiling amongst console gamers, and say "well I play on PC, that will never affect me." But perhaps they weren't paying any attention at all.

Live and learn I guess.

While DLC may seem a natural for PC gamers (ease of distribution via the internet) the games that often were easy to create DLC for also had modding communities (even for games that didn't offer modding tools!) and as such the company created, pay-to-play content had to compete with the free, user-created content.  There would be bad user-created stuff, but always far more of it and all of it free, so it wasn't a very viable option (unless the company created stuff was TOP NOTCH and maybe introduced new mechanics to the game.)

Consoles were the obvious place to go the DLC route, simply because they were effectively a captive audience.  While you can mod a console system and might, from there, mod the games, it is a much-more involved process that many console owners would never go through and the console manufacturers "strictly forbid" anyway.  With no other recourse, Console gamers will buy horse armor while PC gamers will have virtually unlimited free content for every game from BG 2 to Freedom Force to Quake to Morrowind (you get the idea.)

Modifié par MerinTB, 28 novembre 2009 - 06:41 .

[marshalleck]

Yes, I'm quite aware of how it played out. I've been an avid gamer since the Apple II / NES days. Missed the atari and commodore 64 by a hair.

What I 'm saying is the general apathy of PC gamers toward console gamers when publishers started charging for DLC is now biting them on the behind.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 06:45 .

[JSkaven]

I have a real problem with this points system.  First off, allow me to say, I have no problem with any company seeking profits.  That's exactly what a company, any company, is supposed to do.  What I have a problem with is a company selling its own currency, so to speak.  And not to mention the fact that they limit our Bioware currency exchanges into certain amounts, guaranteeing an excess of points left over, money out of our pocket, and into theirs. (unless this has changed since the time I bought Warden's Keep and Shale.  I have 240 points left over that are worth exactly nothing right now.)

Bioware has produced some top quality entertainment products.  And I'm rather dissapointed they decided to go with this whole points fiasco.  I want the option to pay real money for real products.  It's bad enough tracking the US dollar against the Euro and Yen (unless you're the sort of person who enjoys watching train wrecks, lately), do I need to check Bioware and Microsoft exchange rates as well?  Perhaps at my next job I can receive as part of my salary some Bioware points.

The dollar (or whatever currency your own nation may use) is a symbol of the worth of a man's labor.  I made a mistake once, but now, I'll be damned if I let any company tell me that my dollar isn't worth anything to them, but, oh, look!  They're nice enough to exchange it for their own currency!

If you have a good product, sell it to me.  Don't sell me a middleman.

[MerinTB]

I'm not defending points, personally. I'm not sure how they help anyone in anyway, save parents being able to buy their kids cards of money from a store for them to use instead of giving their kids their credit cards.

There is the whole "buy 600 points minimum, for that item that is 250 points that you want - now you are stuck with 350 points to blow or save in the hopes that something else you wanted comes out" - maybe they like taking more cash from you then you need to spend - but the infrastructure and maintenance that goes into maintaining the points system seems too much for just that.



Its something I don't completely understand - but to be fair I've never really dug into the "whys" of it.

[MassFrost]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

I don't think these point systems are bad. At least I get to support my favorite developers with more money. /shrug

I'm a little torn in that regard. On the one hand I don't mind giving money to BioWare because they develop incredible games that I have enjoyed for many years. On the other hand, I absolutely hate the idea of giving even a single cent to EA.

[F-C]

i dont like the point system, it makes me feel like you are stuck with 2 options.



1) jump through hoops buying points to get your DLC.



2) buy more than you need so you have them just sitting there to remove the annoyance.



it feels like the system is purposely made annoying in order to get you to buy more than you need, which leaves me with a bad impression.

[Seifz]

As long as I'm never forced to buy extra points, I'm fine with using BioWare Points. The second that changes, I'll no longer buy DLC from them. Period.

[th3warr1or]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Wardens Keep is only 7 bucks, which is a pretty even price IMO.

Nah, Warden's Keep is worth like 3bucks. Shouldn't have cost more than 240 points.

[LSDS]

The only point system I've experienced that I like is the one used by PSN. All prices are listed in dollars and instead of buying points I'm placing a dollar amount into my virtual wallet. With the Xbox I was always buying slightly more points than needed just so that I had enough to purchase the content that I wanted. I can understand why a point system would be used on consoles but it makes little sense to use such a system on the PC platform. From a consumer's P.O.V. anyway. As a business model I'm sure they're blinded by the extra $ the points can generate.



I haven't dealt with these Bioware points yet as I still haven't purchased a copy of the PC version of DA:O. But I think I'm just going to get all the DLCs that I want for the PS3 version and take a pass on the DLC for the PC version. I'd mainly be getting the PC version to play around with the toolset and mods anyway.

[Must have name]

The points system is annoying, but fine if you can buy specific amounts of points. It only becomes a problem when you're forced to buy excess points, but as of yet, I don't believe this is happening.



Ofcourse, I still think it'd be far easier just to pay money directly.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Well I would liek to get in with somethign as well in this... I would say that teh DLCs are too expensive as it is.



Wardens Keep seemed overpriced as hell compared to how much content you get out of it, you can complete wardens keep in like 30 minutes compared to the entire game that takes up to 75 hours depending on how hardcore you are.



I don't mind the point system really but I demand more value for what I buy with points, even Bioware/EA must be able to see that as a fact, if they are gonna charge us 1200 points which is around 12 dollars for something that takes 30 minutes to complete compared to what the full game cost to mention one thing that is then why have they with alot of expansions to other games like NwN and NwN 2 actually added in several hours of of gameplay and new features for a way more reasonable cost as it is.



Why should we pay the amount of credits for something that could actually be made by one self or other players, it owuld be very nice if we could have actual Quality content from the Pros and alot of it for reasonable price.



Would highly suggest multiplayer options in the future the game could really shine this way, just for a future, it would motivate players to get more involved as well as it would motivate just everyone to complain less about things.



As it is now I hardly recognize bioware anymore in all this mess, been playing most of the Bioware games as well all the way back to the first Baldurs gate, Icewind Dale and so on and so forth.

[purplesunset]

For some reason, the other thread disappeared, so I'll repost this here:

This is why Bioware should have found some way to incorporate the old forum. This discussion also came up on the old forums, and the same points are being made. (did I say the word "point" enough in this post?)

The points system is very much like the credit/debit card system.

Businesses know that consumers spend less if they can physically see their money going away. You are more likely to see the value of your money and hold on to it if it is sitting as cash inside your hand. Retail stores, e.g, therefore made using debit cards much quicker and more convenient than using cash. Debit cards are for the business's benefit, not for the consumer's convenience.

The points system is just another way like a debit card to mask the value of money from the consumer.  The consumer feels more confident spending points than spending cash. There is a lot of psychology involved in economics, and businesses have wisened up to it over the years.