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Bioware Points - Bovine Defecation Product


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#51
Chromie

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MrKrisSatan wrote...

the points system is only gonna work if you can go to a store and buy them, no one would buy wow game time cards if you first had to buy them online with a credit card.


I buy WoW time cards...controls my game time since I wont be on it 24/7 so I dont worry about my credit card being charged when im not playing without the hassle of logging and changing my info.

I hate the bioware points I would gladly play online for a $ amount not points. There are always points left over its so annoying

#52
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Ringo12 wrote...

MrKrisSatan wrote...

the points system is only gonna work if you can go to a store and buy them, no one would buy wow game time cards if you first had to buy them online with a credit card.


I buy WoW time cards...controls my game time since I wont be on it 24/7 so I dont worry about my credit card being charged when im not playing without the hassle of logging and changing my info.

I hate the bioware points I would gladly play online for a $ amount not points. There are always points left over its so annoying


It is your own fault there are points left over.  You should have bought the exact amount of points needed.

#53
Seifz

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Ringo12 wrote...

MrKrisSatan wrote...

the points system is only gonna work if you can go to a store and buy them, no one would buy wow game time cards if you first had to buy them online with a credit card.


I buy WoW time cards...controls my game time since I wont be on it 24/7 so I dont worry about my credit card being charged when im not playing without the hassle of logging and changing my info.

I hate the bioware points I would gladly play online for a $ amount not points. There are always points left over its so annoying


There are no left over points unless you do it wrong.  This isn't Microsoft.

#54
daem3an

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Ringo12 wrote...
I hate the bioware points I would gladly play online for a $ amount not points. There are always points left over its so annoying

I haven't run into this (yet) with Bioware. Other companies, like Microsoft, use the point system precisely for this reason. With 20 million registered Xbox Live users, those unspent points add up to a huge amount of money for virtually nothing in return.

Modifié par daem3an, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:28 .


#55
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Quiz time people:



Ok, lets say you were going to buy all the current DLC, minus Stone Prisoner since it is free, and Return to Ostagar.'

Wardens Keep = 560 Points

Return to Ostagar = 400 Points



The choice of packages are:

400= $5 USD

560= $7USD

800= $10USD

1600=$20USD



Now if you were going to buy points for these 2 DLCs, which package(s) would you buy?


#56
daem3an

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eisberg77 wrote...
Now if you were going to buy points for these 2 DLCs, which package(s) would you buy?

Is this a trick question or a forum aptitude test?

#57
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daem3an wrote...

eisberg77 wrote...
Now if you were going to buy points for these 2 DLCs, which package(s) would you buy?

Is this a trick question or a forum aptitude test?


Well, considering the number of people who are saying they now have extra points left over anf feel ripped off

#58
LSDS

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Outside of NA does the DLC cost a different amount of points or is it the points themselves that cost more money?

#59
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LSDS wrote...

Outside of NA does the DLC cost a different amount of points or is it the points themselves that cost more money?


Same amount of points.

#60
Eurypterid

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drjones wrote...

For NWN dlc was available as a cash purchase. Only reason to go with the points model is greed. I certainly don't mind Bioware making a living but this feels slimy and manipulative.


How is it greed when you're not forced to buy more points than tyhe DLC costs? They're making no extra money whether you pay for it with points or with cash. I'm not seeing your line of reasoning here.



JSkaven wrote...

I have a real problem with this points
system.  First off, allow me to say, I have no problem with any company
seeking profits.  That's exactly what a company, any company, is
supposed to do.  What I have a problem with is a company selling its
own currency, so to speak.  And not to mention the fact that they limit
our Bioware currency exchanges into certain amounts, guaranteeing an
excess of points left over, money out of our pocket, and into theirs.
(unless this has changed since the time I bought Warden's Keep and
Shale.  I have 240 points left over that are worth exactly nothing
right now.)


As noted, you don't have to pay for Shale unless you've bought a used copy of the game.

Bioware
has produced some top quality entertainment products.  And I'm rather
dissapointed they decided to go with this whole points fiasco.  I want
the option to pay real money for real products.  It's bad enough
tracking the US dollar against the Euro and Yen (unless you're the sort
of person who enjoys watching train wrecks, lately), do I need to check
Bioware and Microsoft exchange rates as well?  Perhaps at my next job I
can receive as part of my salary some Bioware points.


If you have a good product, sell it to me.  Don't sell me a middleman.


How is it a fiasco? You don't have to pay for more points than you need for the DLC.


F-C wrote...

i dont like the point system, it makes me feel like you are stuck with 2 options.

1) jump through hoops buying points to get your DLC.

2) buy more than you need so you have them just sitting there to remove the annoyance.

it
feels like the system is purposely made annoying in order to get you to
buy more than you need, which leaves me with a bad impression.


1) Explain
how it's jumping through hoops. You buy the points with your credit
card (or whatever other method they accept).l In-game, you just grab
the DLC., If you've bought the points, you don't even have to leave the
game.

2) You don't have to buy more than you need. The pricing is exactly what the points bundle costs.


purplesunset wrote...

For some reason, the other thread disappeared, so I'll repost this here:

This
is why Bioware should have found some way to incorporate the old forum.
This discussion also came up on the old forums, and the same points are
being made. (did I say the word "point" enough in this post?[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie])

The points system is very much like the credit/debit card system.


Businesses know that consumers spend less if they can physically see
their money going away. You are more likely to see the value of your
money and hold on to it if it is sitting as cash inside your hand.
Retail stores, e.g, therefore made using debit cards much quicker and
more convenient than using cash. Debit cards are for the business's
benefit, not for the consumer's convenience.

The points system
is just another way like a debit card to mask the value of money from
the consumer.  The consumer feels more confident spending points than
spending cash. There is a lot of psychology involved in economics, and
businesses have wisened up to it over the years.


A
good point, which is why it's incumbent upon consumers to educate
themselves and research before jumping to buy anything. Consumers need
to wisen up as well. ;)

#61
Eurypterid

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eisberg77 wrote...

Quiz time people:

Ok, lets say you were going to buy all the current DLC, minus Stone Prisoner since it is free, and Return to Ostagar.'
Wardens Keep = 560 Points
Return to Ostagar = 400 Points

The choice of packages are:
400= $5 USD
560= $7USD
800= $10USD
1600=$20USD

Now if you were going to buy points for these 2 DLCs, which package(s) would you buy?


So you buy package 1 (400 points) and package 2 (560 points). Same price as if you paid for it in hard currency (12 bucks total), and you have no points left over. Where's the problem?

*edit* Apologies. I thought you were implying there would be points left over.

Modifié par Eurypterid, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:48 .


#62
purplesunset

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eisberg77 wrote...

Quiz time people:

Ok, lets say you were going to buy all the current DLC, minus Stone Prisoner since it is free, and Return to Ostagar.'
Wardens Keep = 560 Points
Return to Ostagar = 400 Points

The choice of packages are:
400= $5 USD
560= $7USD
800= $10USD
1600=$20USD

Now if you were going to buy points for these 2 DLCs, which package(s) would you buy?


Eisberg: I hope you know that my post at the bottom of page 2, was originally a direct response to you.

One other reason why the points system exist is because companies expect consumers to choose option 4 given that scenario.

But can we blame the company for consumer stupidity?   Hm...that could be debated in an ethics class, and both sides would have good arguements. I'll leave it at that.

#63
F-C

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the issue to me is that its making me jump through hoops instead of just letting me buy it directly.

it gives me the impression its made to be annoying on purpose so that people who are stupid spend more money than they need to, or people who dont want to deal with the annoyance just go ahead and buy a lot so they have them sitting there.

the system leaves me with a bad impression, like its designed to take advantage of people who just want things to be convenient or dont spend the time to calculate the exact number they need.

selling them for a direct cash price would remove that impression.




a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.

can you imagine going to a store and them being like "you have to buy these points to pay" and you sitting there and having to calculate what you are buying, then converting that to points, then purchasing the points... thats just ridiculous.

Modifié par F-C, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:52 .


#64
purplesunset

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Euryterid, I just noticed that you were Cinnabar Din. I was wondering who this mod was that came out of nowhere and started posting sense.

#65
Eurypterid

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purplesunset wrote...

Euryterid, I just noticed that you were Cinnabar Din. I was wondering who this mod was that came out of nowhere and started posting sense.


LOL. Cheers. :D

#66
marshalleck

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F-C wrote...

a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.


Actually, yes. Yes they should. All consumers should make informed decisions. If people would make a little effort, we wouldn't have retarded threads like this one.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:54 .


#67
daem3an

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Yeah, as long as they give you the option, I don't see I how it's Bioware's fault if you buy more points than you need.

#68
F-C

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marshalleck wrote...

F-C wrote...

a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.


Actually, yes. Yes they should. All consumers should make informed decisions. If people would make a little effort, we wouldn't have retarded threads like this one.


it shouldnt be the customers responsability. they are the ones buying the products.

this system is the same thing as say Wal-Mart charging points instead of cash for products, and selling you points. you would have to sit there with a calculator and figure out exactly how many points you need, then break that down into the point bundles and calculate what is the proper bundles to purchase...

that is ridiculous and would not work in the real world, at all.

yet people want to say its ok for online purchases, yeah ok there.

Modifié par F-C, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:57 .


#69
Eurypterid

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F-C wrote...

the issue to me is that its making me jump through hoops instead of just letting me buy it directly.

it gives me the impression its made to be annoying on purpose so that people who are stupid spend more money than they need to, or people who dont want to deal with the annoyance just go ahead and buy a lot so they have them sitting there.

the system leaves me with a bad impression, like its designed to take advantage of people who just want things to be convenient or dont spend the time to calculate the exact number they need.

selling them for a direct cash price would remove that impression.

I think you're attributing sinister motives where none are really present. My feeling (and I'm just guessing here as well, admittedly) is it's the easiest system for them to use in order to implement buying within the game itself.




a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.

can you imagine going to a store and them being like "you have to buy these points to pay" and you sitting there and having to calculate what you are buying, then converting that to points, then purchasing the points... thats just ridiculous.


It's not a tough calculation. If the products are costing a different value than the actual points bundles you can purchase (such as costing 780 points, for example, when you can only buy bundles of 560 or 800 points), that's a different story. But where they're costing exactly what the bundles cost (i.e. 400 points costs 5 bucks, and the DLC costs 400 points), how is this a difficult calculation?

And I disagree that the customer shouldn't have to do some thinking to decide whether or not they're being ripped off. To the contrary, teh smart consumer should always consider their purchases and decide whether or not it's a ripoff.

#70
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F-C wrote...

the issue to me is that its making me jump through hoops instead of just letting me buy it directly.

it gives me the impression its made to be annoying on purpose so that people who are stupid spend more money than they need to, or people who dont want to deal with the annoyance just go ahead and buy a lot so they have them sitting there.

the system leaves me with a bad impression, like its designed to take advantage of people who just want things to be convenient or dont spend the time to calculate the exact number they need.

selling them for a direct cash price would remove that impression.




a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.

can you imagine going to a store and them being like "you have to buy these points to pay" and you sitting there and having to calculate what you are buying, then converting that to points, then purchasing the points... thats just ridiculous.


Really?  How hard is it to see that Wardens Keep is 560 points and then seeing the available packages and seeing one can by 560 points?  Then there is Return to Ostagar, which is 400 points, but I guess according to you it is difficult to see the 400 point package.

#71
marshalleck

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F-C wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

F-C wrote...

a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.


Actually, yes. Yes they should. All consumers should make informed decisions. If people would make a little effort, we wouldn't have retarded threads like this one.


it shouldnt be the customers responsability. they are the ones buying the products.

this system is the same thing as say Wal-Mart charging points instead of cash for products, and selling you points. you would have to sit there with a calculator and figure out exactly how many points you need, then break that down into the point bundles and calculate what is the proper bundles to purchase...

that is ridiculous and would not work in the real world, at all.

yet people want to say its ok for online purchases, yeah ok there.


Because it's so hard to say "okay, this DLC is 400 points, the other is 560, together that's 960 points. Oh look, I can get points in allotments of 400 and 560! How convenient!"

Additionally, the points allows one to purchase an allotment in anticipation for future purchases if one so desires.

Also, the system works just fine in real life. Ever been to a festival or any sort that uses tickets for purchases, or perhaps an arcade where you can buy tokens and then play any game or combination of games that you prefer?

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 10:06 .


#72
F-C

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Eurypterid wrote...

F-C wrote...

the issue to me is that its making me jump through hoops instead of just letting me buy it directly.

it gives me the impression its made to be annoying on purpose so that people who are stupid spend more money than they need to, or people who dont want to deal with the annoyance just go ahead and buy a lot so they have them sitting there.

the system leaves me with a bad impression, like its designed to take advantage of people who just want things to be convenient or dont spend the time to calculate the exact number they need.

selling them for a direct cash price would remove that impression.

I think you're attributing sinister motives where none are really present. My feeling (and I'm just guessing here as well, admittedly) is it's the easiest system for them to use in order to implement buying within the game itself.




a customer should not have to sit there and make calculations on points to make sure they arnt getting ripped off, its annoying and ridiculous really. they should be able to just buy what they want, period. they are the customers, the ones paying, they shouldnt be required to do extra work to make sure they get their money worth.

can you imagine going to a store and them being like "you have to buy these points to pay" and you sitting there and having to calculate what you are buying, then converting that to points, then purchasing the points... thats just ridiculous.


It's not a tough calculation. If the products are costing a different value than the actual points bundles you can purchase (such as costing 780 points, for example, when you can only buy bundles of 560 or 800 points), that's a different story. But where they're costing exactly what the bundles cost (i.e. 400 points costs 5 bucks, and the DLC costs 400 points), how is this a difficult calculation?

And I disagree that the customer shouldn't have to do some thinking to decide whether or not they're being ripped off. To the contrary, teh smart consumer should always consider their purchases and decide whether or not it's a ripoff.


i guess we will just disagree then.

some things a customer should be responsable for on their own, such as is this product a better buy than this other product.

when you go to make the purchase and spend your money on it though, you shouldnt at that point be required to make calculations on you not paying too much.

it would be like if you want to a cash register to check out, and they said well you can pay 20$ for taxes which is more than it will be, or you can figure it out for yourself and give me the exact value. you are selling me the product, i shouldnt have to make sure im not paying you too much.

there is a difference between that and comparing one product to another. if it was the choice between buying a bioware product, or a blizzard product, yes thats on me to decide which is a better purchase.

when i decide to buy the bioware product, i shouldnt need to make additional calculations to make sure im not paying too much, i should just be able to buy it for stated value period.


there is no reason for this system to be here. i have to go to a website and buy these points, then go back in the game to buy the DLC. you could just sell it to me directly. you already have the money conversion set up to buy the points for different currencies. the system is made to be annoying on purpose so that stupid people pay too much, or you have to jump through hoops to get your exact value worth. then jump through hoops again when the next one is released. or if you want things to be simple, go ahead and pay you a big chunk and just have points sitting there.

it gives me a bad impression, i will never agree with these point systems.

i dont see any store in the real world selling me items where i need to purchase points in order to buy my products, they are quite happy with my cash.

Modifié par F-C, 28 novembre 2009 - 10:09 .


#73
Seifz

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Eurypterid wrote...

F-C wrote...

the issue to me is that its making me jump through hoops instead of just letting me buy it directly.

it gives me the impression its made to be annoying on purpose so that people who are stupid spend more money than they need to, or people who dont want to deal with the annoyance just go ahead and buy a lot so they have them sitting there.

the system leaves me with a bad impression, like its designed to take advantage of people who just want things to be convenient or dont spend the time to calculate the exact number they need.

selling them for a direct cash price would remove that impression.

I think you're attributing sinister motives where none are really present. My feeling (and I'm just guessing here as well, admittedly) is it's the easiest system for them to use in order to implement buying within the game itself.


Nah.  The PS3 method is my favorite.  I can associate a credit card (or my bank card) with my PS3 account and then put money on it whenever I want to.  In games, I can just use that money to buy stuff.  The benefit of this method is that I don't have to remember how many points a dollar is worth, and I know exactly what the item I'm purchasing costs me.

Again, I'm willing to tolerate BioWare's little point system so long as they don't rip me off.  As soon as I see DLC that costs 300 points and no 300 point package, I'm done.

#74
marshalleck

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Seems to me that F-C's argument can be distilled to "I don't want to have to use my brain."

#75
F-C

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marshalleck wrote...

Seems to me that F-C's argument can be distilled to "I don't want to have to use my brain."


seems your post can be distilled to "im just trolling and have nothing worthwhile to say so ill make a random flame."

Modifié par F-C, 28 novembre 2009 - 10:12 .