103 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Oh, you don't have to worry about the latter, according to fa/tg/uys half of the Sisters are raging lesbians (and the other half are bisexual), with an exception being made for the Emprah, of course. 

Still better than the possibility of any sort of romance with the tau or eldar.

[TheBlackBaron]

Since we're basically turning this into a 40K thread, you know what'd be frigging awesome? A Battlefleet Gothic game.

I've never played the tabletop version but it's incredible nobody has tried doing that before. You could even cross it with Aeronautica Imperialis.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

[jaza]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

Same here, though I've also got Soulstorm.

[Vortex13]

jaza wrote...

Legatus Arianus wrote...

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

Same here, though I've also got Soulstorm.

All are great games to play ( though the SoB in Soulstorm were gamebreakinly OP) but if you are looking for story I would say Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising and Space Marine are the better choices. I would recommend playing them all in order though, get the whole (for the most part coherent) storyline.

In order you have: Dawn of War, Dawn of War: Winter Assault, Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, Dawn of War: Soulstorm, Dawn of War 2, Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising, Dawn of War 2: Retribution, and Space Marine. Relic did a really good job of keeping their lore consistent (granted Soulstorm wasn't done by Relic), and Space Marine really pulls you into the universe. 

[Vortex13]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Since we're basically turning this into a 40K thread, you know what'd be frigging awesome? A Battlefleet Gothic game.

I've never played the tabletop version but it's incredible nobody has tried doing that before. You could even cross it with Aeronautica Imperialis.

I think there is a Battle Fleet Gothic mod for Sins of a Solar Empire on ModDB; only has Chaos and the Imperium of Man though, and I think it might be dead; but Im with you, I never understood why a video game for Battlefleet Gothic was ever made.

[jaza]

Vortex13 wrote...

jaza wrote...

Legatus Arianus wrote...

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

Same here, though I've also got Soulstorm.

All are great games to play ( though the SoB in Soulstorm were gamebreakinly OP) but if you are looking for story I would say Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising and Space Marine are the better choices. I would recommend playing them all in order though, get the whole (for the most part coherent) storyline.

Very true, though in my opinion Dark Crusade and Soulstorm were better at immersing you in the game world. The after action reports and the recon reports for each province (you know, those little archive buttons on the menu) and each little story they had really made the game for me.

And that narrator. Oh wow, it was so bad and yet so good.

[Urgon]

Actually, I would rather see Obsidian do such a game some day (a secret, wet dream of mine). It would be just the thing for Chris Avellone to really let go of himself, no holds barred. Every sick and twisted thing he ever wanted to do to a character, every dream he ever wanted to crush, every despair he ever wanted to inflict, every depravity etc. would be fair game and completely natural in such a setting.

[Vortex13]

jaza wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

jaza wrote...

Legatus Arianus wrote...

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

Same here, though I've also got Soulstorm. 

All are great games to play ( though the SoB in Soulstorm were gamebreakinly OP) but if you are looking for story I would say Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising and Space Marine are the better choices. I would recommend playing them all in order though, get the whole (for the most part coherent) storyline. 

Very true, though in my opinion Dark Crusade and Soulstorm were better at immersing you in the game world. The after action reports and the recon reports for each province (you know, those little archive buttons on the menu) and each little story they had really made the game for me.

And that narrator. Oh wow, it was so bad and yet so good.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those. Yeah the lore surrounding each battlefield was well done. I'm with you on the narrator as well, he had that "classy cheesy-ness" about him lol.

But I could not stand the whezzing Necron Lord in SoulStorm (sad because Necrons are my favorite faction, minus the annoying Ward stuff). I much prefered the silent, methodical Necrons of Dark Crusade, that spoke through a mouthpiece Pariah vs. the SoulStorm ones. Seriously, it took the Necron Lord five minutes to say one line of dialogue; and I think that Necron Lord may have been the acting coach for the "throat cancer" Tyranid announcer in Retribution :/

[jaza]

Vortex13 wrote...

jaza wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

jaza wrote...

Legatus Arianus wrote...

So which game in the franchise do you suggest to play?
I have Dawn of War 1 (plus Dark Crusade) & 2 and Space Marine.

Same here, though I've also got Soulstorm. 

All are great games to play ( though the SoB in Soulstorm were gamebreakinly OP) but if you are looking for story I would say Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising and Space Marine are the better choices. I would recommend playing them all in order though, get the whole (for the most part coherent) storyline. 

Very true, though in my opinion Dark Crusade and Soulstorm were better at immersing you in the game world. The after action reports and the recon reports for each province (you know, those little archive buttons on the menu) and each little story they had really made the game for me.

And that narrator. Oh wow, it was so bad and yet so good.

But I could not stand the whezzing Necron Lord in SoulStorm (sad because Necrons are my favorite faction, minus the annoying Ward stuff).

On the subject of Wards Necrons I'd like to ask you something: What is it exactly that turns you off the new Necrons? While I understand that some people dislike the fact that he more or less turned the C'tan into little Pokemons for the Necrons to spam at wil and robbed them of their  "soulless machines **** yeah" vibel, at the same time he did give the Necrons a bit more flavour and lore with the new "dynasty and rival overlords" thang.

Though it is true that the Necrons are now basically the Tomb Lords from Fantasy Warhammer but with flayer guns, they now have a bit more personality and the different dynasties opens up alot of interesting possibilities for Black Library authors and players that like to invent stories for their campaigns.

Modifié par jaza, 06 mai 2013 - 05:43 .

[Seboist]

[AresKeith]

Do we still get Orcs with british accents?

[Dave of Canada]

AresKeith wrote...

Do we still get Orcs with british accents?

They'll just re-hire their Dragon Age crew.

[TheBlackBaron]

jaza wrote...

On the subject of Wards Necrons I'd like to ask you something: What is it exactly that turns you off the new Necrons? While I understand that some people dislike the fact that he more or less turned the C'tan into little Pokemons for the Necrons to spam at wil and robbed them of their  "soulless machines **** yeah" vibel, at the same time he did give the Necrons a bit more flavour and lore with the new "dynasty and rival overlords" thang.

Though it is true that the Necrons are now basically the Tomb Lords from Fantasy Warhammer but with flayer guns, they now have a bit more personality and the different dynasties opens up alot of interesting possibilities for Black Library authors and players that like to invent stories for their campaigns.

I generally agree. As it is, what were the old Necrons bringing to to the table that the Nids weren't? They were just a re-run of the "mysterious omnicidal killers harvest populations for unknown (to the other races) reasons", only with robots instead of the lovechild of Xenomorphs and dinosaurs. 

Recycling the Tomb Lords wasn't the best thing ever but it does at least offer something new to the 40K universe. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 mai 2013 - 10:24 .

[Taleera]

All in all, I don't see the problem with this. Quite the contrary: the ME series was a very good shooter that easily stands up to the clunky thing that THQ has put out. However, where it stands or falls (at least for a sizable amount of people) is which approach the studio might choose with this IP. Arguably, BioWare's prime trademark is its storytelling and the way they immerse you into the setting with interaction between characters.

I believe that this would be curtailed by the way that certain types of characters such as Space Marines or Battle Sisters are indoctrinated, in that their lives essentially consist of nothing more than fighting wars and training for them. Exceptions are possible, yet these factions' lifestyle still prevents (or should prevent) such a character to act like a normal human being, barring them from many types of interaction which a player might prefer.

The solution is easy. Just don't make a game about such characters. Instead, give us Inquisitorial operatives or Necromundan gangers; Imperial Guard grunts or a Rogue Trader crew. The only risk involved is that it'd not involve the franchise's "poster boys" (at least not directly - though they could still be chaste companions such as Sten in DA or Samara in ME2), but ultimately it would preserve the setting's style and explore new ground. After about 20 years of Space Marines here, Space Marines there, it might just be about time to do so. The potential is there. All it takes is someone with the guts to use it.

Time will tell.

Morroian wrote...

bleetman wrote...
Bioware can't even keep track of their own lore. They can stay the balls away from Warhammer 40k.

Is the W40K lore consistent as it is?

Nope. It's surprising how few fans of that franchise actually know how it works. See a few collected quotes from people who actually work on it plus links to sources here.

As it stands, compared to the 40k franchise, anything BioWare has put out is a prime example of consistency.
In that at least they try.

[RedArmyShogun]

Seboist wrote...

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!! *Throws a cleaver into the wall*

[Silcron]

^ basically this.

We wanted a good 40k action game and tbh we got it. My main complain about the game were the connection problems in mp, but aside's that it had a decet-average story that worked really well to have us face orks and chaos.

I mean, I can see bioware doing it (let's be honest, they'd just take Space Marine's with new character models and work with that) but I can't see Bioware making a game that will please 40k fans, and those go way back.

[billy the squid]

Taleera wrote...

All in all, I don't see the problem with this. Quite the contrary: the ME series was a very good shooter that easily stands up to the clunky thing that THQ has put out. However, where it stands or falls (at least for a sizable amount of people) is which approach the studio might choose with this IP. Arguably, BioWare's prime trademark is its storytelling and the way they immerse you into the setting with interaction between characters.

I believe that this would be curtailed by the way that certain types of characters such as Space Marines or Battle Sisters are indoctrinated, in that their lives essentially consist of nothing more than fighting wars and training for them. Exceptions are possible, yet these factions' lifestyle still prevents (or should prevent) such a character to act like a normal human being, barring them from many types of interaction which a player might prefer.

The solution is easy. Just don't make a game about such characters. Instead, give us Inquisitorial operatives or Necromundan gangers; Imperial Guard grunts or a Rogue Trader crew. The only risk involved is that it'd not involve the franchise's "poster boys" (at least not directly - though they could still be chaste companions such as Sten in DA or Samara in ME2), but ultimately it would preserve the setting's style and explore new ground. After about 20 years of Space Marines here, Space Marines there, it might just be about time to do so. The potential is there. All it takes is someone with the guts to use it.

Time will tell.

Oh the pain!  And so it begins.

Interaction with Inquisitors... burn the heretic, purge the xeno, destroy the demon. 
Interaction of a Space Marine with gangers and Rouge traders... purge them
Interaction with imperial guard troops.... Commissar shoots them in the head. 

Space marines as chaste companions my arse. This is actually exactly what I meant by watching the ensuing train wreck and laughing at how cringe worthy it would be.

The setting is effectively open war on every front, or the political back stabbing and machiavelian politics of the various Imperial organisation. Happy companions holding hands ala Mass effect and Dragon Age it isn't. 

[Volus Warlord]

billy the squid wrote...

The setting is effectively open war on every front, or the political back stabbing and machiavelian politics of the various Imperial organisation. Happy companions holding hands ala Mass effect and Dragon Age it isn't. 

ME had that! Like Udina.. and Udina.. and there is also Udina. 

[Vortex13]

 

TheBlackBaron wrote...

jaza wrote...

On the subject of Wards Necrons I'd like to ask you something: What is it exactly that turns you off the new Necrons? While I understand that some people dislike the fact that he more or less turned the C'tan into little Pokemons for the Necrons to spam at wil and robbed them of their  "soulless machines **** yeah" vibel, at the same time he did give the Necrons a bit more flavour and lore with the new "dynasty and rival overlords" thang.

Though it is true that the Necrons are now basically the Tomb Lords from Fantasy Warhammer but with flayer guns, they now have a bit more personality and the different dynasties opens up alot of interesting possibilities for Black Library authors and players that like to invent stories for their campaigns.

I generally agree. As it is, what were the old Necrons bringing to to the table that the Nids weren't? They were just a re-run of the "mysterious omnicidal killers harvest populations for unknown (to the other races) reasons", only with robots instead of the lovechild of Xenomorphs and dinosaurs. 

Recycling the Tomb Lords wasn't the best thing ever but it does at least offer something new to the 40K universe. 

I don't hate the new Necrons; I thoughly enjoyed the WH40K novel: The Fall of Damnos (which is based off of the new Necron Codex), but there are some little things that I find annoying about the new lore. 

The biggest gripe I have with the new Necrons is how they are Tomb Kings in space; the dynasties and rivalrys of competing Lords offers an interesting dynamic, but really, did they have to make EVERYTHING Egyptian sounding, or Egyptian looking. I liked the Necrons of Dark Crusade, some may call them bland, but I prefer them to the Pharo wannabes most have turned into. Same thing with the Tomb Kings, I like the walking skeletons, I don't like how everything has an Egyptian filter over it. 


Also the CTan into Pokemon was disappointing, I know why they did it; the CTan in the old lore should have been able to OHK everything on the table if they ever entered a battle, but I miss how they were the physical counter part to the Immaterium based Chaos Gods. Also, in the original lore, the CTan gained control of the Necrontyr when they became the Necrons, now they come across as idiots for not installing some kind of failsafe on the Necron bodies. 

The Silent King's "We must stop the Tyranids!" reasoning was sub-par (IMO) as well, I realize that GW wanted a lore reason why Tryanids and Necrons would fight each other, but The Silent King more-or-less instigating a crusade against the Tyranids seemed out of place.
Tyranids gain no biomass from Necrons, and Tomb Worlds are (for the most part) devoid of life anyway, and with the Necrons no longer slaves to the CTan why would they care if the Hive Mind ate everything, or at the very least, why would they place such a high priority on stopping the Tyranids?

The Necrons' need to use the Webway was another thing I disliked about the new fluff; Necron technology outclasses everything else for the most part (their ships have inertia-less drives for example) so why would they need to use the Eldar Webway in the first place? The old lore had the Necrons' thechnology over all the other races, but that was offset with there being relitivly few Necrons awake, now with the different empires and dynasties, is seems they have had to been nerffed.

Speaking of technology, the Necrons' sudden tendicy to trade with other races is another gripe I have, especially that one Lord who gives the Orks Doomsday Cannons (I believe they were Doomsday Cannons) to get them to leave, just seems totally against what the Necrons are (they can revive on the battlefield, and their weapons phase out to prevent capture). And you also have the Blood Angels and Necrons 'teaming up' to fight the Tyranids (granted that happened in the old lore, but such occurances seem to be far more commonplace in the new fluff); essentially it feels like the Necrons are being hominizied (to me), their just like everyone else now.

Those are the big things I have an issue with, I still enjoy the Necrons and the new fluff is pretty good for the most part.

[Taleera]

billy the squid wrote...
Oh the pain!  And so it begins.

Interaction with Inquisitors... burn the heretic, purge the xeno, destroy the demon. 
Interaction of a Space Marine with gangers and Rouge traders... purge them
Interaction with imperial guard troops.... Commissar shoots them in the head. 

Space marines as chaste companions my arse. This is actually exactly what I meant by watching the ensuing train wreck and laughing at how cringe worthy it would be.

The setting is effectively open war on every front, or the political back stabbing and machiavelian politics of the various Imperial organisation. Happy companions holding hands ala Mass effect and Dragon Age it isn't. 

Who said anything about "happy" companions or "holding hands"? Please refrain from twisting other people's message. I chose Sten and Samara as comparisons for a reason, you know. You sound as if BioWare would be incapable of writing any characters other than happy-go-merry goody-doers. If that's what you believe, then I'm sorry that your trust in this studio has apparently evaporated to a point where it affects your judgment.

Your perception of the 40k setting seems even more narrowminded than mine, and I don't say that lightly! Just going by GW studio fluff, we have the following aspects to consider:

#1 Not all Inquisitors actually kill anything and everyone they encounter. Some prefer more subtle methods, and some even become corrupted in their own quest for knowledge and salvation. Remember the Illusive Man from Mass Effect? Perfect example for a Radical Inquisitor.

#2 Studio fluff mentions Space Marines travelling onboard Rogue Trader ships in an effort to push the Imperial borders. Perfect example for interaction between these two groups.
And why would Space Marines "purge" some random ganger as if they'd have nothing better to do? I hope you know that a number of Chapters even recruit from amongst them.

#3 The Imperial Guard actually does a little more than getting executed by their Commissars every day. I hope you realize that summary execution requires the soldier to have messed up and isn't something that Commissars do because they're bored. You don't even have a Commissar in every single squad!

Far be it from me to point towards the ton of novels that the Black Library keeps churning out, as I find that most of them take considerable artistic licence and at times deviate from studio fluff on critical issues, but surely you have to see that there's quite some potential for storytelling in the setting.

Here, just to shock you: http://www.games-wor...book_part_1.pdf
A Games Workshop RPG where people play a mixed party of Inquisitors, Space Marines, Guardsmen and Gangers. Here is a selection of characters.

But apparently this is impossible to turn into a videogame? Please. Have some vision. 

Modifié par Taleera, 07 mai 2013 - 03:03 .

[Cultist]

[billy the squid]

Taleera wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
Oh the pain!  And so it begins.

Interaction with Inquisitors... burn the heretic, purge the xeno, destroy the demon. 
Interaction of a Space Marine with gangers and Rouge traders... purge them
Interaction with imperial guard troops.... Commissar shoots them in the head. 

Space marines as chaste companions my arse. This is actually exactly what I meant by watching the ensuing train wreck and laughing at how cringe worthy it would be.

The setting is effectively open war on every front, or the political back stabbing and machiavelian politics of the various Imperial organisation. Happy companions holding hands ala Mass effect and Dragon Age it isn't. 

Who said anything about "happy" companions or "holding hands"? Please refrain from twisting other people's message. I chose Sten and Samara as comparisons for a reason, you know. You sound as if BioWare would be incapable of writing any characters other than happy-go-merry goody-doers. If that's what you believe, then I'm sorry that your trust in this studio has apparently evaporated to a point where it affects your judgment.

Your perception of the 40k setting seems even more narrowminded than mine, and I don't say that lightly! Just going by GW studio fluff, we have the following aspects to consider:

#1 Not all Inquisitors actually kill anything and everyone they encounter. Some prefer more subtle methods, and some even become corrupted in their own quest for knowledge and salvation. Remember the Illusive Man from Mass Effect? Perfect example for a Radical Inquisitor.

#2 Studio fluff mentions Space Marines travelling onboard Rogue Trader ships in an effort to push the Imperial borders. Perfect example for interaction between these two groups.
And why would Space Marines "purge" some random ganger as if they'd have nothing better to do? I hope you know that a number of Chapters even recruit from amongst them.

#3 The Imperial Guard actually does a little more than getting executed by their Commissars every day. I hope you realize that summary execution requires the soldier to have messed up and isn't something that Commissars do because they're bored. You don't even have a Commissar in every single squad!

Far be it from me to point towards the ton of novels that the Black Library keeps churning out, as I find that most of them take considerable artistic licence and at times deviate from studio fluff on critical issues, but surely you have to see that there's quite some potential for storytelling in the setting.

Here, just to shock you: http://www.games-wor...book_part_1.pdf
A Games Workshop RPG where people play a mixed party of Inquisitors, Space Marines, Guardsmen and Gangers. Here is a selection of characters.

But apparently this is impossible to turn into a videogame? Please. Have some vision. 

1) Who is then purged by his athoritarian, purist counterpart in the Ordo Heriticus for delving into cesured technology and being tainted, so how does that lend itself to a companion inquisitors aren't exactly going to toe the line for your character unless your charcter is an Inquisitor. And the Illusivman while didn't have a lot of exposition and involvement in ME2, but the character was sound, while in ME3 he devoloved into just plain dumb.

2) Why would a marine ever encounter a random ganger outside of a recruitment mission, Ordo Xeno/ Hereticus Death squad where he'd be purged or in a warzone. I can't imagine a conversation between those two, "the injustices of the Imperium" *Thunder Hammer to the face*

3) Imperial guard, are grunts, they're told where to fight and die, in their millions. 

There's potential for story telling certainly. But the kind of story telling that we see in a Bioware game  and the Universe of 40k is worlds apart, your major charcters are brook no question from their subordinates and those which stray from the imperial truth are likely to be executed. I don't see inquisitorial Storm Troops questioning an Inquisitor in anyway that would resemble the party interaction in ME2 do you? Or is Bioware going to re invent the wheel and stray from their established formula, which they've used for every single party based game for years?

Please, don't be stupid. 

Edit:

And I'm full aware of the Inquisitor game, I'm also ware of the pen and paper RPG versions. And I'd love to see the ensuing "we want to romance..." train wreck  As I said, Bioware's way of making a party based game with the typical social commentary blah, blah, blah. goes off in an entirely different way to both of these.

Modifié par billy the squid, 07 mai 2013 - 08:35 .