889 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

Whybother wrote...

Which fleeing enemy were the Quarians killing? The Geth were not fleeing, they were "sitting ducks" due to the Reaper signal being disabled. Yes, Han'gerrel ordered the shot taken against an immobile enemy, just like Hackett ordered the fleet to take on the immobile Sovereign in ME1.

Clearly you did not read my other post to you which addressed this point.  Here it is again.  I have bolded, italicized, and underlined the relevant part of the vid where Gherel says, "They are trying to flee, stay on them."

remydat wrote...
As Phatose points out that is when they are still RC.



You see in the above vid where non Reaper controlled Quarians comply with Gherel's order to kill fleeing Geth?  So we have concluded that the Quarians are no better than Reaper controlled Geth in killing a fleeing enemy.  Glad we agree.

Let's just sit back and listen as Gherel almost has an orgasm as he says, "They are trying to flee, stay on them."


At least my boy Legion doesn't take this sh*t lying down.  He went out as a true G.  Doesn't jump off a cliff but tries and choke Shep out for allowing Gherel to kill the Geth as they try and flee.  RIP Bro, lol.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 02:47 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

You folks do realize that you're putting far more thought into all this than the writers ever did right?

[remydat]

Of course. That is the beauty of fiction.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

remydat wrote...

Of course. That is the beauty of fiction.

It's just...the whole situation has both sides going full retard.

The Quarians decide to launch a dumb war and the Geth decide that slavery is preferable to extinction which goes against everything they are supposed to stand for.



Not to mention how they ruined Legion's character.

ME2: "We're different and that's okay because we want to fight the evil ancient robots too!"

ME3: "Lolz brah we need the reaper code so we can be individuals like you!"

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 05 mai 2013 - 03:08 .

[David7204]

That is just dumb.

Two years ago, the geth helped Sovereign attack the Citadel.

The quarians see the geth building fleets and preparing for war. They see the Reapers attacking. They know for a fact the Reapers have used the geth as effective tools in the past. They have a weapon to take them out without any casualties. They have a very bitter history that has only been made worse by recent geth attacks. And they have an opportunity to take back the homeworld they've wanted for 300 years.

That's not stupid at all. Just unfortunate. It makes more sense to attack the geth as the Reapers are approaching. Not less. It makes more sense to deny the Reapers what they have every reason to believe is a powerful asset.

If the geth had actually turned out to be 'evil,' (and the quarians had nothing but Tali's word as evidence they weren't, weighed against all the other facts and history) everyone would be shrieking about how stupid the quarians are if they had not taken the perfect opportunity to remove one of the Reapers' allies. Everyone would be shrieking at them for doing exactly what they claim is the most obvious thing ever now.

You've whined to me a few times that I'm too hostile in my arguments. Is this how you make yours? By making childish insults and using terms like 'full retard, ''brah' and 'lolz'?

Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 03:41 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

You've whined to me a few times that I'm too hostile in my arguments. Is this how you make yours? By making childish insults and using terms like 'brah' and 'lolz'?

I'm making light of the situation because I find both sides to be lacking in wits.

But since you are as usual determined to be an absolute jackass I'm sure that won't matter in the slightest.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 05 mai 2013 - 03:15 .

[David7204]

Why you don't actually address my points so we can see how well your 'wits' hold up?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

Why you don't actually address my points so we can see how well your 'wits' hold up?

Not going to bother.

However if someone other than you were to make those points I'd be happy to discuss them.

Remy perhaps, I don't agree with anything he says but at least he isn't an ass about it.

[remydat]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

It's just...the whole situation has both sides going full retard.

The Quarians decide to launch a dumb war and the Geth decide that slavery is preferable to extinction which goes against everything they are supposed to stand for.

Not to mention how they ruined Legion's character.

ME2: "We're different and that's okay because we want to fight the evil ancient robots too!"

ME3: "Lolz brah we need the reaper code so we can be individuals like you!"

Opinions change when circumstances change.  It's called being pragmatic.  Extinction has a way of doing that to a species. Case in point, without the RC, the Quarians will not stop their attack even when the Geth flee as the vid I posted earlier shows.  So it is RC or death.  It's cool if you would choose death because you said something back when your death was not eminent but I am honest enough to admit that when my death is emiment a lot of the sh*t I said before may no longer apply.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 03:27 .

[David7204]

That's just delightfully convenient for you, isn't it? I like how you say "I'm not going to bother," rather than "I can't."

I'm sure if you had actually had something worthwhile to say you'd be overjoyed to stick it in my face.

Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 03:25 .

[Whybother]

[Using a Paragon interrupt to make David7204 and Grand Admiral Cheesecake get along]

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Whybother wrote...

[Using a Paragon interrupt to make David7204 and Grand Admiral Cheesecake get along]

Don't be silly old chap there is no "getting along" with David.


Anyway to actually address the point of the thread, No the Morning War wasn't justified, but the Quarians actions and the Geths reactions are understandable.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K

1. Yes but that is a hard sell until Shep.  He changes the dynamic.

2. But they didn't refuse to talk.  Post Shep, they were not only talking they were living with organics on Shep's ship.  So your statement is misleading.  Prior to Shep, there was no avenue available for them to talk to each other because neither side trusted each other.  Shep changes that.  You can either sit there and cry about 300 years or you can recognize that Shep and Tali's relationship as squad mates with Legion changed things.

3.  Again, you are confused.  I accepted they have no reason to trust organics prior to Shep.  Legion makes clear the Geth view Shep as different so much so they specifically send Legion to find him.  So your assertion they would shoot the Normandy down (let's ignore it is a stealth ship) is based on outdated information ie the previous 300 years prior to Shep.  Since Shep is on the Normandy and Legion knows this since he lived with Shep on the Normandy for several months, it is absurd to suggest the Geth will shoot down the one organic they recognize is different and the one organic they respect due to his taking down the Heretics and Old Machines so much so that Legion was sent as the first True Geth outside of the PV to find him.  But sure let's ignore that crucial difference from the previous 300 years, lol.

So there seems to be a fundamental confusion.  Apparently you are ignoring all the events in ME2 that make it perfectly clear that Legion and the Geth view Shep as different from the other flawed organics which was the whole point they sent Legion to find him.  There is your avenue for peace that previously did not exist.  The previous 300 years are irrelevant because Shep renders them irrelevant the minute he takes down the Heretics and the Old Machines earning the Geth's respect and trust in the process.  This is stated clearly in ME2.

1. Yes, then don't try to deny that. I am saying Geth should have just allowed talking and it can't hurt them.

2. Then again the Quarians were not planning a war back then. When the time came, Legion as cut comms. Also give me one reason to think Geth were open for peace other than what Legion said casually.

3. Not every Geth is Legion now are they. Last time we saw the, the rest of the Geth have hooked Legion to that Reaper thing. They tend to shoot first and ask Questions later anyway. Tell me one ship Geth haven't shot on sight to show me what you are saying is a sane idea.

Everything you are saying is resting on that one Geth. What if Legion died on the suicide mission or Shepard sold it to Cerberus. At the point there is no reason to trust Legion more than any other Geth. Legion was there to deal with the Heretics and nothing says otherwise.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

It's just...the whole situation has both sides going full retard.

The Quarians decide to launch a dumb war and the Geth decide that slavery is preferable to extinction which goes against everything they are supposed to stand for.

Not to mention how they ruined Legion's character.

ME2: "We're different and that's okay because we want to fight the evil ancient robots too!"

ME3: "Lolz brah we need the reaper code so we can be individuals like you!"

Opinions change when circumstances change.  It's called being pragmatic.  Extinction has a way of doing that to a species. Case in point, without the RC, the Quarians will not stop their attack even when the Geth flee as the vid I posted earlier shows.  So it is RC or death.  It's cool if you would choose death because you said something back when your death was not eminent but I am honest enough to admit that when my death is emiment a lot of the sh*t I said before may no longer apply.

So the circumstances can make Legion into a Heretic? Now I have even more trouble trusting that thing. Btw, don't forget Legion tries to kill Shepard when he disagrees.

[remydat]

S.A.K

1. It can hurt them if organics are not there to talk but there to gather intel while pretending they want to talk.  And after Shep, they do talk.

2. This is incorrect.  During ME2, Gherel notes the Quarians recently voted on War and that they just barely lost the vote.  They have been thinking of war the whole time hence Rael's experiments and Xen taking over Rael's experiments.  The Quarians had months to do something before Legion cut comms.

3.  It is absurd to pretend that prior to the war with the Quarians, the Geth would shoot down the ship of the organic the consensus sent Legion to find.  Furthermore, this is largely irrelevant.  You and I both know that Shep would have gone on the mission regardless. Legion stated he does not have a natural fear of synthetics like the rest of the organics so trying to pretend like Shep would not take that chance ignores the Shep the game protrayed.  You are trying to take the Quarian mistrust of the Geth and apply it to Shep when he has no such mistrust.

4.  Legion was sent to find Shepard so you are confused.  This is stated in the game and I already posted the vids to prove it.  Also, if Legion dies in the sucide mission then a Legion hologram with his memories replace him and not the Geth VI.  So it changes very little.  If Legion is sold to Cerberus, it does not change the fact he was sent to find Shep and that the Geth recognize Shep as different from the others although I will agree that Shep would have no direct knowledge of that which is why I never said it.  I said Legion and Shep's relationships changes things so obviously if that relationship never existed because you sold him to Cerberus it would not change things.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 04:42 .

[Argolas]

Whybother wrote...

[Using a Paragon interrupt to make David7204 and Grand Admiral Cheesecake get along]

Ask for a few discounts on the Citadel, I'm sure you'll make it next time!

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

So the circumstances can make Legion into a Heretic? Now I have even more trouble trusting that thing. Btw, don't forget Legion tries to kill Shepard when he disagrees.

Legion does not worship or follow the Old Machines so he can't be a Heretic.  Furthermore, if I willingly kill someone it is murder.  If someone puts a gun in my hand and says kill this person or I will kill your wife and then you and they have the power to do so, my killing is not the same as it was UNDER DURESS.  The Quarians attack meant the Geth were forced to make a decision under duress which legally changes the nature of their alleged crime.

Gherel gives the order to kill fleeing Geth.  What would you do if your entire race is trying to flee and the only thing that can save them is being denied to you?  I think you are confused by Tali and Raan just sitting there and watching Shep allow their race to be exterminated before offing themselves.  That is not normal.  That is pretty abnormal actually.  The normal thing for someone to do is to try and stop Shep which is what Legion does.  

I respect Legion for trying to kill me rather than watching his people die when they are trying to flee more than I respect Tali or Raan for just sitting their doing nothing and then committing suicide.  And I say that with Tali being my love interest.  I love that chic but my Shep has been trying to put some backbone into her forever.  It is his greatest failure that he couldn't. 

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 04:58 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Argolas wrote...

Whybother wrote...

[Using a Paragon interrupt to make David7204 and Grand Admiral Cheesecake get along]

Ask for a few discounts on the Citadel, I'm sure you'll make it next time!

Nothing can stop the cycle.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Argolas wrote...

Whybother wrote...

[Using a Paragon interrupt to make David7204 and Grand Admiral Cheesecake get along]

Ask for a few discounts on the Citadel, I'm sure you'll make it next time!

This store discriminates against the poor!

[S.A.K]

But the rest of the Geth pretty much did that.
Also the rest is not the situation. Shepard had to make a choice. Save Quarians or save Geth. And Legion knows damn well Shepard is critial to defeat the Reapers and it's more important than Geth or the Quarians. Btw, if Tali or Raan shot Legion there, you can't save your Geth at all.

[RaenImrahl]

If this topic is to continue, it must do so in a respectful manner. Calling other users "whiners" and so forth is not productive. Nor is using an inflammatory word like "retard". If such behavior continues, users will be temp banned. Please continue the conversation in a respectful manner. If you find it impossible to do so, then let your silence speak for you....

[Whybother]

Shepard sides against Tali/Quarians: Tali cries and then commits suicide
Shepard sides against Legion/Geth: Legion tries to kill Shepard

[Phatose]

So, Tali is useless, and Legion isn't going down without a fight.

Did we not already know that?

[Whybother]

Phatose wrote...

So, Tali is useless, and Legion isn't going down without a fight.

Did we not already know that?

Tali saves your ass if Legion tries to kill Shepard.  She's also been there for you for three games.

Legion is all "yo dawg, I showed up for the final few missions of ME2 so you totally gotta side with me."

[Argolas]

Phatose wrote...

So, Tali is useless, and Legion isn't going down without a fight.

Did we not already know that?

In ME1, the Geth (including Legion of course) were perfectly aware of what Saren was doing. Tali was lucky enough to retrieve a scrap of evidence of what was going on. Remind me: Which of both proved "useless" again?

"The difference is that you helped when it mattered."