889 réponses à ce sujet

[Phatose]

What would you have them do, exactly?

Really. Send warnings, cause those are going to be believed? Send ambassadors, cause those wouldn't be attacked?


Oh, and LOL actively hunting Cerberus. Like Anderson actively hunted Cerberus when it showed up in his goddamn office.

[S.A.K]

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Those people are all dead. You saying I should give Geth the same treatment? Show one Geth that don't try to kill you at some point. All Geth are equally responsible for everything they ever did because of their consensus.

Also cerberus never joined Reapers. TIM got indoctrinated. Only once to ever join the Reapers is Geth.
I think you should play the game again but pay some attention this time. I don't even understand why you go to such lenghts to cover the Geth...

http://en.wikipedia....ion,_March_1933

Consensus.  Kill them all.  Right?

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

[Alien Number Six]

Argolas wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

Whybother wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...
....

^^ Ridiculous headcanon. No military could ever wipe out a significant part of the whole civilian population. Those soldiers have families.

Earth/Germany/1941

I'd say Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge would be a more apt example - they wiped out 1/4 of their population.

If a military considers it's own population a threat it will wipe them out. As a solider in the U.S Army I took an oath to defend my against enemies both overseas and at home. If the Quarian military found Civilians aiding the geth.....well you know the rest.

I'll repeat it again: We are talking about more than 99% of the population. Children. Old people. Sick people. Civilians who don't care about the Geth at all and just wanted to live their life.

ALL DEAD.

I admit that I'm not familiar with US regulations, but I cartainly hope that your oath does not include the butchering of children.

No it does not include kids or non combatants. However some Army's just don't care.
Just the other day on PBS during A show called Secrets of the Dead I heard transcripts recorded in 1943 about
The "liquidation" of 1563 Jews before lunch by three German officers armed with pistols and sub-machine guns. They had the men dig a mass grave then everyone took off their clothes and lined up. The officers shot them until the fell into the grave. It didn't matter if they where alive or not they would be buried soon enough. They saved the kids for last. They picked them up by the hair, shot them in the head and then threw them in the mass grave. The officer said the whole thing took two hours. In Iraq I was ordered to dig up a mass grave of over 500 Kurds. It is VERY DISTURBING to dig up a three year old's skeletion. The point is under a crazy enough leader a Military is capable of just about anything.

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 05 mai 2013 - 07:03 .

[Argolas]

Phatose wrote...

What would you have them do, exactly?

Really. Send warnings, cause those are going to be believed? Send ambassadors, cause those wouldn't be attacked?


Oh, and LOL actively hunting Cerberus. Like Anderson actively hunted Cerberus when it showed up in his goddamn office.

Organics are by no means innocent, but the Geth seriously messed up every time the Reapers were involved, and even before that they were always hostile, including Legion.

Yes, a warning would have helped. If the Geth that usually don't seek contact at all informed the council about Geth potentially planning to attack the Citadel along with some coordinates, the Council would investigate.

[S.A.K]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Argolas wrote...

I'll repeat it again: We are talking about more than 99% of the population. Children. Old people. Sick people. Civilians who don't care about the Geth at all and just wanted to live their life.

ALL DEAD.

I admit that I'm not familiar with US regulations, but I cartainly hope that your oath does not include the butchering of children.

No it does not include kids or non combatants. However some Army's just don't care.
Just the other day on PBS during A show called Secrets of the Dead I heard transcripts recorded in 1943 about
The "liquidation" of 1563 Jews before lunch by three German officers armed with pistols and sub-machine guns. They had the men dig a mass grave then everyone took off their clothes and lined up. The officers shot them until the fell into the grave. It didn't matter if they where alive or not they would be buried soon enough. They saved the kids for last. They picked them up by the hair, shot them in the head and then threw them in the mass grave. The officer said the whole thing took two hours. In Iraq I was ordered to dig up a mass grave of over 500 Kurds. It is VERY DISTURBING to dig up a three year old's skeletion. The point is under a crazy enough leader a Military is capable of just about anything.

Damn! You are saying Geth are like that. OMFG!!!

[AlexMBrennan]

I'll repeat it again: We are talking about more than 99% of the population. Children. Old people. Sick people. Civilians who don't care about the Geth at all and just wanted to live their life.

Again, give me a source that shows geth troopers going door to door executing quarians civilians. That probably never happened - what's more likely to have happened is that the quarians put weapons on civilian ships or civilians including children on warships which is a violation of the Geneva Convention.

4772 The implementation of such protection requires that precautions are taken both by the party launching the attack during the planning, decision and action stages of the attack, and by the party that is attacked. For example; military installations should not be intentionally placed in the midst of a concentration of civilians with a view to using the latter as a shield or for the purpose of making the adverse party abandon an attack

The quarians suffered 99.9% casualties including civilians and children because they violated the rules of war whilst being too stupid to quit a fight they knew they could not win - exactly what happens *again* if you side with the geth in ME3: The quarians fight to the last man/ship despite being able to safely escape at any point by jumping to FTL speed.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 05 mai 2013 - 07:29 .

[Alien Number Six]

I'm saying military is only as moral as those who are leading them. If a crazy Quarian general decides all Geth symphisers must be "liquidated" to ensure the surival of the race the military will carryout their orders. You can refuse of course but you will end up on the firing line. If as a soldier you are as indoctrinated as the SS was you beleve what you are doing is right. On the other side of the coin if the Geth decided that all Quarians must go they would go about it as methodicaly as the SS did. Attack, Secure, Dispose.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Those people are all dead. You saying I should give Geth the same treatment? Show one Geth that don't try to kill you at some point. All Geth are equally responsible for everything they ever did because of their consensus.

Also cerberus never joined Reapers. TIM got indoctrinated. Only once to ever join the Reapers is Geth.
I think you should play the game again but pay some attention this time. I don't even understand why you go to such lenghts to cover the Geth...

http://en.wikipedia....ion,_March_1933

Consensus.  Kill them all.  Right?

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

It sounds like you don't belive the Quarians have done terrible things. I think that's the problem here.

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

It sounds like you don't belive the Quarians have done terrible things. I think that's the problem here.

Of course, Quarians are guilty of many things. But not all Quarians are, just the leadership. And the Quarians didn't ally with Reapers like Geth or become terrorists like Batariens did. They just waited for thier chance to strike.
In short. Geth have killed billions, Quarians haven't.

[Phatose]

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Those people are all dead. You saying I should give Geth the same treatment? Show one Geth that don't try to kill you at some point. All Geth are equally responsible for everything they ever did because of their consensus.

Also cerberus never joined Reapers. TIM got indoctrinated. Only once to ever join the Reapers is Geth.
I think you should play the game again but pay some attention this time. I don't even understand why you go to such lenghts to cover the Geth...

http://en.wikipedia....ion,_March_1933

Consensus.  Kill them all.  Right?

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

Oh, so the geth use consensus on EVERYTHING do they?

So, every single Geth in the entire Galaxy - including the ones who were in cold storage - were asked about the precise angle and aim on that shot that just missed me?

Oh, and every single Geth was asked on every action Legion took, even though we know it wasn't.

So.....yeah.  No.  Wrong.  Just wrong.

And I "cover" for the Geth so much because at a racial level, "everyone" is like that.  Reality.  I'm simply unwilling to hold the Geth up to a standard we don't hold up ourselves.

[S.A.K]

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Those people are all dead. You saying I should give Geth the same treatment? Show one Geth that don't try to kill you at some point. All Geth are equally responsible for everything they ever did because of their consensus.

Also cerberus never joined Reapers. TIM got indoctrinated. Only once to ever join the Reapers is Geth.
I think you should play the game again but pay some attention this time. I don't even understand why you go to such lenghts to cover the Geth...

http://en.wikipedia....ion,_March_1933

Consensus.  Kill them all.  Right?

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

Oh, so the geth use consensus on EVERYTHING do they?

So, every single Geth in the entire Galaxy - including the ones who were in cold storage - were asked about the precise angle and aim on that shot that just missed me?

Oh, and every single Geth was asked on every action Legion took, even though we know it wasn't.

So.....yeah.  No.  Wrong.  Just wrong.

And I "cover" for the Geth so much because at a racial level, "everyone" is like that.  Reality.  I'm simply unwilling to hold the Geth up to a standard we don't hold up ourselves.

So you are saying the Geth consensus decided to side with Reapers? It didn't decide to isolate themselves and attack anyone trying to make contact? And it didn't decide to almost wipe out the Quarians?

[Indy_S]

S.A.K wrote...

So you are saying the Geth consensus decided to side with Reapers? It didn't decide to isolate themselves and attack anyone trying to make contact? And it didn't decide to almost wipe out the Quarians?

I think I read somewhere that their indecision prevented them from wiping out the quarians. The other points, though, I agree on.

[Phatose]

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

[S.A.K]

Indy_S wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

So you are saying the Geth consensus decided to side with Reapers? It didn't decide to isolate themselves and attack anyone trying to make contact? And it didn't decide to almost wipe out the Quarians?

I think I read somewhere that their indecision prevented them from wiping out the quarians. The other points, though, I agree on.

Yes, they let the last Quarians leave because they couldn't predict the result of wiping out an entire race.

[S.A.K]

Phatose wrote...

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

I am sorry. Wasn't all Geth allied with the Reapers at the end?

[Phatose]

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

I am sorry. Wasn't all Geth allied with the Reapers at the end?

I am sorry.  Wasn't all Germans allied with the ****s at the end?

Do you apply this to all democracies?  Are all Americans responsible for everything Bush did because they decided he should be in charge?

[S.A.K]

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

I am sorry. Wasn't all Geth allied with the Reapers at the end?

I am sorry.  Wasn't all Germans allied with the ****s at the end?

Do you apply this to all democracies?  Are all Americans responsible for everything Bush did because they decided he should be in charge?

The hell? Now you are saying geth are a democracy?
And you know damn well what I mean. All Germens didn't take up arms and go to war. But all Geth did. They have no civiliance. It's really hard to explain something to you.

[Phatose]

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

I am sorry. Wasn't all Geth allied with the Reapers at the end?

I am sorry.  Wasn't all Germans allied with the ****s at the end?

Do you apply this to all democracies?  Are all Americans responsible for everything Bush did because they decided he should be in charge?

The hell? Now you are saying geth are a democracy?
And you know damn well what I mean. All Germens didn't take up arms and go to war. But all Geth did. They have no civiliance. It's really hard to explain something to you.

Yes, the Geth are a democracy.  Did you even do Legion's loyalty mission in ME2?  He tells you exactly how it works. 

[S.A.K]

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

The hell? Now you are saying geth are a democracy?
And you know damn well what I mean. All Germens didn't take up arms and go to war. But all Geth did. They have no civiliance. It's really hard to explain something to you.

Yes, the Geth are a democracy.  Did you even do Legion's loyalty mission in ME2?  He tells you exactly how it works. 

Consensus democracy =/= Democracy

That is counter to what you are trying to say and it proves all Geth are responsible.

Edit : You completely ignored the important part of my post.

Modifié par S.A.K, 05 mai 2013 - 08:21 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Do you know what question is never answered?

Remy, you said that Legion said that the Geth see Shepard as different from other organics, yet the writers never bothered to mention why. This is a pure ass pull on the part of the writers.

* Shepard has done nothing different with any geth than other organics -- shot and killed every single one of them.

* Shepard captured Legion at the urging of (fill in the blank) squad mate on the derelict reaper.

* They only see Shepard as different IF Legion makes it back to the Consensus.

* But still why do they see Shepard as different? What about the rest of the crew?

___________________________________

The problem with the Rannoch situation is..

* Rannoch is the home world of the Quarians.
* Rannoch is the home world of the Geth, too.

You can't even divide the world. The land belongs to all of them. The all lived all over it. Both groups were wrong. The Quarians were wrong to try and deactivate all of them. The Geth were wrong in their systematic extermination. If you divide the world and say "This half belongs to the Geth. And this half belongs to the Quarians," it will end up like India and Pakistan fighting over Kashmir.

Damn, I hope we never create anything resembling the Geth here on Earth. We will end up in the same situation.

Actually, I replayed ME2, and learned that Legion actually does go and tell you right away why the geth are interested in Shepard.
You see, the reason they wanted Legion to find Shepard, is because the Commander killed Sovergein. Legion sais the fact that an organic conquered a "superior being" - a "God", is why they are interested in Shepard. The fact that one organic was able to bring about the death of a being that the Heretics worshiped as the future of the geth is what interests them. Shepard's actions single-handly re-kindled the geth's interest in organics after 300 of not caring about their fates. Although the exact thing that Legion stands to gain by finding and studying Shepard is unknown, although it can be speculated that the geth wanted Legion to "learn" the traits that Shepard used to overcome Sovergien, so that the geth could understand the aspect that allowed "lesser beings" to defeat a "God." Perhaps they, like the Catalyst, saw Shepard as the examplar of organics, and the perfect organic to learn from, since Shepard did what no other organic could do - kill a "God."

It's been a while.

Whoa. This shows the ME writing team was asleep at the wheel. That shows just a wee bit of an error right there. Shepard didn't kill Sovereign. Shepard enabled the Normandy and the other ships in the Allied fleet to take out Sovereign. And Saren Hopper was taken out by a team (Liara, Garrus and Shepard), not just Shepard.

[David7204]

Okay, that is just silly. Plenty of people throughout ME 2 mention that Shepard killed Sovereign. It's just shorthand.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Phatose wrote...

Oh, I'm sure they did.

But I'm also sure I've seen how it works in ME2. It's a democracy. Some vote for, some vote against.

You're going to kill them all without even asking how they voted.

On the vote to wipe them out on Rannoch? It was 100%

On the vote to pursue them into space? it was < 100%

This is the way the Consensus works. This is why when Legion had a simple majority of 2 votes in favor of rewriting the Heretics he said "We have not reached consensus."

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Phatose wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Those people are all dead. You saying I should give Geth the same treatment? Show one Geth that don't try to kill you at some point. All Geth are equally responsible for everything they ever did because of their consensus.

Also cerberus never joined Reapers. TIM got indoctrinated. Only once to ever join the Reapers is Geth.
I think you should play the game again but pay some attention this time. I don't even understand why you go to such lenghts to cover the Geth...

http://en.wikipedia....ion,_March_1933

Consensus.  Kill them all.  Right?

Buddy, people elect leaders. Then the leaders take all the decisions and the civiliance are out of the command loop. Geth use consensus on EVERYTHING they do and all Geth are a part of it. See the difference?

Those Geth must be thinking, "Those humans will believe anything we say. HAHAHA!"
Now tell me why do you cover the Geth so much? You seem to agree Geth have done horrible things and you are tring to show everyone is like that.

Oh, so the geth use consensus on EVERYTHING do they?

So, every single Geth in the entire Galaxy - including the ones who were in cold storage - were asked about the precise angle and aim on that shot that just missed me?

Oh, and every single Geth was asked on every action Legion took, even though we know it wasn't.

So.....yeah.  No.  Wrong.  Just wrong.

And I "cover" for the Geth so much because at a racial level, "everyone" is like that.  Reality.  I'm simply unwilling to hold the Geth up to a standard we don't hold up ourselves.

YES. The geth use consensis for EVERYTHING.  This is stated and CONFIRMED  by Legion, and the "Geth Culture" Codex Entry.

ONCE AGAIN, NONE of the geth are in ANY FORM OF STASIS. There are geth that do not have bodies, and geth that do. Just because a geth doesn't have a body DOES NOT MEAN they are in "cold stroage." That concept DOESN'T EXIST for them. They are ALWAYS ACTIVE - ALL OF THEM. On the Geth Dreadnought, EDI and Liara comment on how all geth are ALWAYS performing a task, be it manning a body, or amrature, or probe, or acting as a system aboard a ship, or processing communication or coordiating infrormation from a server in a station, ALL geth are active. The ME1 codex "Geth: Armatures" and "Geth: Hoppers" clearly and spicifically states this as well.
The notion that geth perform consensis for that shot is PRECICELY RIGHT. According to Legion, at least 100 geth programs must be interlinked to create a single "Unit." At least ten units must be cooperatively interlinked to develop any kind of battle stratagy that goes beyond "shoot enemy." Meaning that a geth fighter squadron is interlinked to form battle stratgies, like who and what to shoot, and when. Especally if there is an orginized combat effort being made by the geth. The only exceptions to this are Geth Primes, which are walking Geth Server hubs. Legion is the only geth outside of Prime units that are mobile servers. The ONLY type of geth outside of a Prime that can decide on how, who, and when to shoot without needing to be internetworked.
This only changes when the Reaper Code upgrades the geth to the point where they don't need to be internetworked to have the processing power to think independantly. But every time before that? they are internetworked with others. EVERY TIME a geth shot at you from cover, or fought your squad in orginized resistance, it did so with the help at least ten other units networking with it. The CODEX and LEGION both state this is how the geth operate. You are in direct violation of pre-established ME lore.
Also, do you remember EDI's statements about how "human misjudgements defy prediction," meaning that organics like Shepard can keep surviving incoming hits. And the many, many, MANY times your shileds drop or a squadmate get's K.O.d shows the geth's accuracy isn't all that flawed.

Legion is a "special" case, because he was SPICIFICALLY made to not be interlinked with the consensis on a constant basis, as doing so would limit the range Legion could travel outside geth space. In fact, one could say Legion is a black sheep among the geth. A mavrick, or rouge.
Also, Legion DID make reports to the geth, just like Miranda did to the Illusive Man. Not involving them in every choice, but keeping them apriaised of all the details after the fact with reports.

So... Sorry, but YOU end up being the one that's "wrong. Just wrong."
Your "covering" of the geth isn't really justified given that you lack even basic knowledge on how their culture and infrastructure works. And you are trying to hold them ABOVE other organics - THAT"S what S.A.K is pointing out. You are elivating them ABOVE the organics, NOT equating them.

[Alien Number Six]

I didn't vote for Bush jr. He was a very poor military commander in chief. Before invading Iraq in 2003 I was informed if all of the Iraqi Army chooses to fight us we will be outnumbered 10 to 1. With this information Bush had CNN post a clock on their channel and told Iraq we will invade when the clock strikes zero if they didn't produce the Weapons Of Mass Destruction they didn't have. So im outnumbered 10 to 1 and the enemy knows when im attacking..............................(facepalm)

[Alien Number Six]

Maybe Bush was the Quarian military commander during the morning war. Lol