David7204 wrote...
That's probably why they didn't put them in the game.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 05 mai 2013 - 08:35 .
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
And that's something I hate in ME3.
People who say "We had to deal with Cerberus in ME2, so stop whining about the alliance" have one thing we Cerberus fans don't.
In ME2, you could be defiant towards TIM and pro-alliance. You could turn over information to the alliance about Cerberus. You could attack TIM at every turn, and deny a lot of the claims from Miranda. There are a lot of people that wanted nothing better than to put a bullet in Miranda's head and scurry back to the alliance.
Not so in ME3. I had to be pro-alliance in ME3. Not even the ability to somewhat deviate. The best I can do is try to reason with TIM, and express a few opinions wondering where they went wrong. I wanted to flip Anderson and Hackett the bird so many times, to call out and do a very sharp dressing down on the alliance crew of the Normandy (my ship that the alliance stole) over some naive and racist opinions (especially the damn checkpoint guards), and to really just dig into Ashley about how I just don't give a damn about her opinion and how her own stupidity and blind devotion to the alliance nearly screwed the galaxy or how she's lucky I didn't put a bullet in her when it would have solved several problems or just left her on Mars to die, as my Shepard was very briefly tempted to do. I wanted to tell them how I found Cerberus to be infinitely better than the damned alliance anyday, and how they were willing to look at and face the threat. I wanted to tell them how TIM and Cerberus stood behind me, believed in me, when no one else would. I admit, a lot of this is unreasonable: I still would have loved the ability to call the alliance out on their inaction and display my disillusioned opinion to them. I wanted to throw my dogtags at Anderson and tell him and Hackett that they were going to get behind me. I'm the one in charge, I'm the one who's going to lead the fight. Hackett will build the Crucible with the resources I send him, while I get the galaxy all prepared for the coming fight.
I can understand not working with Cerberus in ME3: They're indoctrinated and no longer acting on humanity's behalf. The Reapers have changed them, perverted them, twisted their ideals to suit their own ends. I view TIM as a tragic villain. He tried to do the right thing and was corrupted by his uniform belief that the right thing justified his methods. As the methods became more extreme, there was an imbalance. Finally, he crossed the line of no return when he used Reaper tech. That forever made him a slave, a peon to the Reapers. I'm angry that he didn't use more caution, and angry that he had the arrogance to believe that he could control the Reapers. I'm angry because he should have known better, because he did know better. I'm angry that things couldn't have been different...
I dunno. It would work, but it might be a bit of a touchy subject that would ****** some people off.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
David7204 wrote...
That's probably why they didn't put them in the game.
A dialogue option for each LI describing what your plans are post-game doesn't sound too unreasonable to implement.
It's not going too in-depth, just varying responses with a sentence or two.
Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 08:40 .
David7204 wrote...
I dunno. It would work, but it might be a bit of a touchy subject that would ****** some people off.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
David7204 wrote...
That's probably why they didn't put them in the game.
A dialogue option for each LI describing what your plans are post-game doesn't sound too unreasonable to implement.
It's not going too in-depth, just varying responses with a sentence or two.
For example, consider Jack and the possibility of a marriage and white picket fence house and all that.
If you include the option, it could easily come off as out-of-character or even just silly.
If you don't include it, people will inevitably make comparisons to Liara and Garrus and say their romance is being screwed in favor of the supposed 'canon' romances.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 05 mai 2013 - 08:57 .
Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 09:02 .
David7204 wrote...
Having a completely separate Cerberus storyline just would not work. There's way too many problems.
Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 09:10 .
David7204 wrote...
In general, the impacts of choices need to be proportional to their level of foreshadowing. You really shouldn't have the Collector base be such a huge decision because it would overshadow every other decision.
Personally, I think what would have been ideal would be a 'Terminus Systems' arc that occurs after the Rannoch arc. Recruiting the mercs and criminals of the galaxy as a fighting force. It also could have re-introduced the Collectors as enemies and had content with the Omega-4 relay, which naturally would include variation depending on the player's collector base choice.
I think I'd also like to have Miranda involved...
Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 05 mai 2013 - 09:16 .
David7204 wrote...
I don't know about that. That seems to be boxing the player in quite a bit. I like Tali a lot, but I really don't much care for the idea of living on Rannoch.
As far I as know, the romance with Liara is the only one that mentions marriage. And Liara and Garrus' romance are the only that ones that talk about having kids. But you'll notice that every time kids or marriage are mentioned, it's half-joking. Neither the player or Shepard are seriously commiting to such things, although the implication is certainly there.
o Ventus wrote...
Bleachrude wrote...
Er..did you play ME1?
Seriously, people blame Walters for turning Cerberus into snidely whiplash but how come nobody takes issue with ME1's portrayal of Cerberus OR the fact that in ME2, the writers deliberately gave the council the idiot ball JUST so that you are forced to work with cerberus.
Yeah. I did. ME1's Cerberus is bad too, but for different reasons.
There was no motivation given for Cerberus' actions in ME1, thus giving them the appearance of supposedly pointless evil. You learn in ME2 that the ME1 experiments actually had a purpose and are given a justification for each one (that makes perfect sense).
David7204 wrote...
Having a completely separate Cerberus storyline just would not work. There's way too many problems.
In Exile wrote...
Their methods are idiotic. They're dealing with mind control technology that they don't understand and are trying to reverse engineer. The idea that you can create some kind of machine that can control the Reapers, in a few months/years during the middle of their genocidal war march, is completely insane.
Their methods involved forcibly converting humans into husks and trying to control them. Ignoring how completely morally bankrupt it is, it's beyond belief how stupid it is as an actual plan. There's no reason to believe that controlling a husk is anything like controlling a reaper, or that the kind of indoctrination signal used by reapers to capture organics is at all like what it would take to control a reaper - if that were even possible.
Argolas wrote...
Cerberus was definitely onto something on Sanctuary. A working way to control reaper ground troops- that's huge! Imagine what it means if we successfully deliver that weapon on every battlefield- the Reapers would be ultimately incapable of harvesting. Reapers are way too big and clumsy to do anything but killing and blowing stuff up.
without acutally having a reaper try and wrest control from you, there's no way to know if the idea actually ever works. And even if one reaper can be beat, what about 20 reapers working in unison?
Yeah, and in my opinion, instead of Lazarus DeM/forced to work for Cerberus, we blew them out of the water in ME 2 instead. By the end of ME 1, I had a clear picture of what Cerberus was, and ME 3 simply confirmed it. I wonder how many of the Cerberus apologists played Sole Survivor, and found out that the reason they got that origin is Cerberus? Don't take my word for it though, check out the Corporal Toombs quest arc in ME 1. I love the rogue cell arguments too. So just how much control did TIM not have over Cerberus, since all these experiments were run by rogue cells? I also love the "minor villain" thing, and then acting like they grew 100 times bigger in ME 3, completely ignoring the two space stations we were on that belonged to Cerberus in ME 2, the credits they spent with the Lazarus DeM, and the credits they spent building the SR 2. I wonder where all those credits came from? Did TIM win the galactic version of PowerBall?TheRealJayDee wrote...
David7204 wrote...
Having a completely separate Cerberus storyline just would not work. There's way too many problems.
I agree that a completely seperate Cerberus storyline would have been pretty impossible to realize, given the resources and time needed for such. That's just another point in the book of "maybe we should have really thought this through while planning our 'your choices matter' trilogy" for Bioware.
The least they should have done was, as others suggested, more varied chances to express Shepard's opinion in the dialogue. And they should have put more effort into the transition from ME2 to ME3. Going from "There's your base, TIM, let's show those Alliance and Council jerks how things are getting done - I'm off with my uber-loyal crew in my Cerberus spaceship" to "I turned myself in half a year ago, disbanded my crew and gave my ship away, and while I sat on my ass all time I rediscovered my overwhelming love for and loyalty to the Alliance" was... irritating, to say the least.
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