345 réponses à ce sujet

[Khelish]

tickle267 wrote...

I know that.

I don't see "month" as Shodiswe is saying. Am I missing it?

[TheWerdna]

shodiswe wrote...

That's what this thread is all about conspriacy theories with Zero evidence.

So says the person spouting some of the most painfully baseless consperecy idiocy I have ever read.

Modifié par TheWerdna, 06 mai 2013 - 04:29 .

[Khelish]

tickle267 wrote...

my apologies, i didn't read that the timeline was the issue.
uhh... i don't know where the 'months' timeline comes from, i guess shodiswe made it up using logical reasoning (a few months for mining seems reasonable)

Depends. Shepard can mine a planet in mere seconds.

I can see his point, though Tali and her squad could have made it to Freedom's Progress quickly. They lost contact with Veetor (A quarian that has a type of special needs), so it makes sense to keep a close eye on him.

[shodiswe]

There is no evidence the Bunker was made for the Reaper specificly, it might have made some modifications to the base however, just as modifications could have been made for imprisoning Legion.

How long would it take to put on a few manacles on legion, conect a few network Cables and putin AI shackles programming to stop him from escaping?

With the omnitool fabrication capabilites and all the material and Manpower available it should have been easy unless Legion put up an Epic fight. But one Geth platform agaisnt billions doens't seem liek much of a fight to me, they probably caught him by surprise aswell.
Once they made up their decision I doubt Legion had much time before they came to drag him off to his crusifiction. Soemhow it almost looks like they crusified Legion.... Maybe the writers/designers were trying to make Legion look like Jesus who in the end had to die for the salvation of his people.
Almost seems like a religious reference.. I kind of dislike such, but there seems to be a few in the game.

There is nothing to suggest anything, the reaper destroyer sneaked past the rigorous sensor grids aroudn the Krogan homeworld meant to prevent the Krogans from building a space force that coudl threaten the galaxy.
I'm pretty sure the councils DEM people woudl have had an easiier time detecting a Reaper destroyer than the quarian flotilla in the mods of engaging thousands of Geth warships.
When you talk to Raan they are even failing to get a clear Reading on the Quarian distress signa in their own fleet... a ship callign for help in their own fleet and they were having trouble to pick it up due to the energy discharges, static and possibly Geth jamming and Quarian flashbangs.

Considerign they fail to notice their own Captains who are sending distress signals, how are they supposed to notice a small Reaper lonely destroyer ship that flies by at a distance without engaging anyone.

[Argolas]

Khelish wrote...


I can see his point, though Tali and her squad could have made it to Freedom's Progress quickly. They lost contact with Veetor (A quarian that has a type of special needs), so it makes sense to keep a close eye on him.

As I said, Tali knew Veetor personally and for quite a while it appears. She knows that he always was nervous around people, where he went for his pilgrimage and why (he liked the idea of helping a small settlement). All in all, it appears there have been quite a few private conversations between Veetor and Tali in the past. Given her character, Tali would definately look into the matter when she loses contact, especially knowing that other human colonies have been attacked in the past, she may even have kept an eye on the communications with Freedom's Progress the whole time.

[shodiswe]

I don't know how long it takes the Quarians to construct or deploy stripmining stations and make the planet pitted and scared, and they are now moving on after depleting an incredibly rich planet leaving it scared and ugly. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a lifebearing planet.

I doubt Shepard is stripmining planets with his one frigate and deploying stripmining stations

I have to assume they have spent quite a lot of time there, it's not like they just arrived and began their work, they have just left and are preparing to move on.

Modifié par shodiswe, 06 mai 2013 - 04:50 .

[Khelish]

shodiswe wrote...

I don't know how long it takes the Quarians to construct or deploy stripmining stations and make the planet pitted and scared, and they are now moving on after depleting an incredibly rich planet leaving it scared and ugly. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a lifebearing planet.

Because a planet that looks like a rock is so pretty... right? <_<

I doubt Shepard is stripmining planets with his one frigate and deploying stripmining stations

What I posted, was a joke. /EDI

I have to assume they have spent quite a lot of time there, it's not like they just arrived and began their work.

Again, as I said, Tali was able to make it to Freedom's Progress regardless of the Flotilla's location. She personally knew Veetor (Someone with a sort of special needs). Quarians wouldn't just send out a quarian like Veetor and not watch out for them.

---

I am done now, please Shodiswe, if you ever come across a writer that verifies the quarians are working with the reapers, let me know.

Modifié par Khelish, 06 mai 2013 - 05:18 .

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

There is no evidence the Bunker was made for the Reaper specificly, it might have made some modifications to the base however, just as modifications could have been made for imprisoning Legion.

How long would it take to put on a few manacles on legion, conect a few network Cables and putin AI shackles programming to stop him from escaping?

With the omnitool fabrication capabilites and all the material and Manpower available it should have been easy unless Legion put up an Epic fight. But one Geth platform agaisnt billions doens't seem liek much of a fight to me, they probably caught him by surprise aswell.
Once they made up their decision I doubt Legion had much time before they came to drag him off to his crusifiction. Soemhow it almost looks like they crusified Legion.... Maybe the writers/designers were trying to make Legion look like Jesus who in the end had to die for the salvation of his people.
Almost seems like a religious reference.. I kind of dislike such, but there seems to be a few in the game.

The thing that Legion was connected to (which Shepard says "that's definitely Reaper tech") had to be constructed, the Reaper had to be called on to the planet surface and the missle silo(as some suggested) had to be prepared for the Reaper and the Reaper had to provide Geth with the required harware and software which Geth took and install on their ship. They also had to capture and bring Legion there and connect it to the hardware shackles before the signal could be transmitted. So it must have take atleast a couple of days.

There is nothing to suggest anything, the reaper destroyer sneaked past the rigorous sensor grids aroudn the Krogan homeworld meant to prevent the Krogans from building a space force that coudl threaten the galaxy.
I'm pretty sure the councils DEM people woudl have had an easiier time detecting a Reaper destroyer than the quarian flotilla in the mods of engaging thousands of Geth warships.
When you talk to Raan they are even failing to get a clear Reading on the Quarian distress signa in their own fleet... a ship callign for help in their own fleet and they were having trouble to pick it up due to the energy discharges, static and possibly Geth jamming and Quarian flashbangs.

Considerign they fail to notice their own Captains who are sending distress signals, how are they supposed to notice a small Reaper lonely destroyer ship that flies by at a distance without engaging anyone.

Everyone knew there was a Geth on Tuchanka, Legion did not know about a Reaper on Rannoch. Geth sensors seems to be very advance. They even picks up Shepards stealth Kodiak shuttle. Are you suggesting none of the Geth or those sensors saw a 160m a Reaper sneak into their base/missle silo/whatever?

I am saying Legion lied about Geth allying with Reaper when Quarian destroyed the Dyson Sphere. Is there anything to say that they didn't ally with Reapers earlier, other than Legions words?

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

There is no evidence the Bunker was made for the Reaper specificly, it might have made some modifications to the base however, just as modifications could have been made for imprisoning Legion.

How long would it take to put on a few manacles on legion, conect a few network Cables and putin AI shackles programming to stop him from escaping?

With the omnitool fabrication capabilites and all the material and Manpower available it should have been easy unless Legion put up an Epic fight. But one Geth platform agaisnt billions doens't seem liek much of a fight to me, they probably caught him by surprise aswell.
Once they made up their decision I doubt Legion had much time before they came to drag him off to his crusifiction. Soemhow it almost looks like they crusified Legion.... Maybe the writers/designers were trying to make Legion look like Jesus who in the end had to die for the salvation of his people.
Almost seems like a religious reference.. I kind of dislike such, but there seems to be a few in the game.

The thing that Legion was connected to (which Shepard says "that's definitely Reaper tech") had to be constructed, the Reaper had to be called on to the planet surface and the missle silo(as some suggested) had to be prepared for the Reaper and the Reaper had to provide Geth with the required harware and software which Geth took and install on their ship. They also had to capture and bring Legion there and connect it to the hardware shackles before the signal could be transmitted. So it must have take atleast a couple of days.

There is nothing to suggest anything, the reaper destroyer sneaked past the rigorous sensor grids aroudn the Krogan homeworld meant to prevent the Krogans from building a space force that coudl threaten the galaxy.
I'm pretty sure the councils DEM people woudl have had an easiier time detecting a Reaper destroyer than the quarian flotilla in the mods of engaging thousands of Geth warships.
When you talk to Raan they are even failing to get a clear Reading on the Quarian distress signa in their own fleet... a ship callign for help in their own fleet and they were having trouble to pick it up due to the energy discharges, static and possibly Geth jamming and Quarian flashbangs.

Considerign they fail to notice their own Captains who are sending distress signals, how are they supposed to notice a small Reaper lonely destroyer ship that flies by at a distance without engaging anyone.

Everyone knew there was a Geth on Tuchanka, Legion did not know about a Reaper on Rannoch. Geth sensors seems to be very advance. They even picks up Shepards stealth Kodiak shuttle. Are you suggesting none of the Geth or those sensors saw a 160m a Reaper sneak into their base/missle silo/whatever?

I am saying Legion lied about Geth allying with Reaper when Quarian destroyed the Dyson Sphere. Is there anything to say that they didn't ally with Reapers earlier, other than Legions words?

Just because some Geth knew or might have known a Reaper was there doesn't mean Legion knew about it.

[shodiswe]

Geth don't share all data or information, they share that which they deem important or which they "Think" they should share. It's also possible they choose not to tell Legion about Everything due to his constant communication and chatting with a Quarian "Admiral", who was taking part of systematic ethnic cleasing in several Geth systems.
It's surprising that we're told that the Geth allowed it to go on after the initial Quarian attack.

The Reapers if not the Geth however put a stop to it and chackled Legion at some Point, likely while the Quarians were busy destroying massive swarms of satelites that have been constructed over a period of centuries.... Probably took them at least a few hours to cause that damage to the Dysonbubble.

Modifié par shodiswe, 06 mai 2013 - 05:39 .

[S.A.K]

@shodiswe, Legion returned to the Geth consensus. So yes Legion knew about it if any Geth did. But maybe other Geth hid it from Legion like you said.
But I am saying Legion lied about the time they allied with Reapers. I am not talking about Legion's knowledge about the Reaper on Rannoch. I am asking you is there any proof that Geth only allied when Quarians hit the Sphere other than believing Legion's words at face value?

Modifié par S.A.K, 06 mai 2013 - 05:46 .

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

It was 17 days when Shepard arrived on the scene. And they say they started attacking 4 Geth systems 17 days ago. They can't traval from planet to planet instatantly and they can't retake a planet that fast. And the destruction of the Geth was pretty fast according to the codex.

Why wouldn't Legion know that? Legion even knew about the Base on Rannoch and the about the Reaper signal. And Legion can't expect to get Shepards support without telling anything.

As I said, if Legion would have to expain how a single Reaper with limited transmittion capability managed to control all Geth. I am sorry but it's hard to think Legion wasn't lying at this point. Do you think if the Geth did ally with Reapers before Quarians attacked, Legion would let Shepard know about it?

But why would they.  If it is just so easy to kill them then why attack 4 systems.  Just go to the Far Rim, attack go through the relay to Tikkun and finish them off.  This makes no sense.  It does not take minutes to break the Geth line.

Why don't organics know how indoctrination works? Why does TIM not know he is indoctrinated? 

Legion - I don't know how they are controlling us except they are using me as some kind of signal booster.  I just know that before I was disconnected from the consensus, a Reaper base was being set up on Rannoch.  We should probably go check it out.  

Now based on information in the game at the point Shep meets Legion, explain how anyone can prove he is lying? The canon in the game at that point is the Reapers do a lot of sh*t that people don't understand and the Reapers are fully capable of controlling people over vast distances.  You don't know the Reaper has limited transmission capability because Legion doesn't tell you that.  So how do you know this?

[remydat]

People are basically saying that because Legion lied before, it must mean he could lie about this. When you look at the facts, I don't see evidence of this alliance so it is just speculation.

Further, the two confirmed times he lied, it was ultimately to help Geth but also ended up helping organics. If he told Shep about his other reason for wanting to go into the Servers, the Quarians might refuse and nix the mission. In that case, not only do the Geth die but the Quarians being attacked by the Geth in that server who are controlling Geth fighters would die as well.

In the second instance, if he told Shep about the RC and Shep told him to remove it, then Priority Rannoch would possibly fail because he needs the RC to hack the security and secure the escape vehicle. So sure he lied but you are ignoring those lies did not just benefit the Geth. They benefited organics. So trying to use those lies when ultimately they were lies that benefited everyone is problematic in the context of claiming he lied about this.

And finally, if you believe Legion to be this grand scheme, he has no reason to exit the vehicle and tell Shep about uploading the Reaper Code once the Reaper is dead. He is free to upload the code from just about anywhere. While Shep and Tali are basking in the afterglow of killing a Reaper he could stay in the vehicle and quietly upload the code in secret for the 1 or 2 minutes it takes.  Even if they caught wind of it, he could basically drive off.

So Legion has only been confirmed as lying when it ended up benefited both the Geth and organics. He tells the truth about the Geth allying with Reapers even when Shep thinks they were forced, and he gets out of the car and asks Shep to allow the upload when he could have do so quietly. It doesn't add up guys.

Modifié par remydat, 06 mai 2013 - 06:03 .

[shodiswe]

The Geth consensus isn't one mind, it isn't a conciousness. It's more like an Electronic forum where Geth statebussiness is processed, evaluated and different geth can share their ideas and thoughts.
There they reach a Consensus on major decisions by evaluating every view until they agree.
Most decisions are easy others take more time.
A lot of people seems to misstake the Consensus as a counsiousness.
Consensus commes form reachign a Consensus after evaluating several different Points of view.
Like Tali told us back in ME1, they arn't a hive mind, they don't share their thoguhts with others they don't even share their sensory output with other Geth, that would requier an extra update transmitted to other Geth within Communication range.
The Point of the Sphere they are building si to conect everyone, sicne they anr't currently connected and are forced to share ideas through updates through the Consensus that works more like a forum or meetign Place for different Geth. They are not of one mind, but contacting Another geth in the consensus while connected is fairly instantaneous.
After saying a hundred tiems on this forum peopel are still saying the Geth know everying that other geth knows and that they are one mind one individual. Which they arn't. Which is why Legion could die, or why the geth VI is considered Dead by that Gethprime.

Modifié par shodiswe, 06 mai 2013 - 06:28 .

[shodiswe]

One could say that the Geth Consensus is a Little bit like the switzerland direct democrazy where people can arrange a vote on every law or legislative change.
The Geth just takes it to a new extreme.

Like Legion said, the Geth are building the Sphere to end their "separation" from each other.

If they had completed the Sphere then they might have become one huge hivemind in one singular platform. (when every last Geth is transfered to it)

Modifié par shodiswe, 06 mai 2013 - 06:33 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

But why would they.  If it is just so easy to kill them then why attack 4 systems.  Just go to the Far Rim, attack go through the relay to Tikkun and finish them off.  This makes no sense.  It does not take minutes to break the Geth line.

Why don't organics know how indoctrination works? Why does TIM not know he is indoctrinated? 

Legion - I don't know how they are controlling us except they are using me as some kind of signal booster.  I just know that before I was disconnected from the consensus, a Reaper base was being set up on Rannoch.  We should probably go check it out.  

Now based on information in the game at the point Shep meets Legion, explain how anyone can prove he is lying? The canon in the game at that point is the Reapers do a lot of sh*t that people don't understand and the Reapers are fully capable of controlling people over vast distances.  You don't know the Reaper has limited transmission capability because Legion doesn't tell you that.  So how do you know this?

1. That is actually a good question. I don't know what the Quarians were planning or why they hit 4 systems before heading to Tikkun. If you have a theory I'd like to hear it.

2. Legion was being used as the signal transmitter (why not some other geth like a Geth prime?) and Legion was in control of itself. So Legion can't act like it doesn't know anything. Organics know that indoctrination works by changing brain patterns using a subliminal signal.

If Legion said that anyone would suspect Geth volunteered to work with Reapers like Heretics did (if Shepard didn't, the Quarians surely will) specially since the signal was being transmitted by a Geth ship and Legion was there with free will.

3. I am not looking to proove 100% that Legion lied and I pointed out why I think this in the OP and in responses to you. You people have been using "Quarians made the Geth ally with the Reapers" line a lot. Which is based on completely on what Legion said. I am showing how that is questionable and that Legion COULD have lied. Now is there anything to show "Geth allied with Reapers because Quarians attacked" other than Legion said so?

[shodiswe]

Also, after the geth are taken over by the Reaeprs I doubt their "democracy" is intact, or that information flows freely.

[remydat]

S.A.K

1. I suspect they had no real proof that the weapon would work on large numbers of Geth.  It has only been tested in a controlled environment not in an actual war.

2. Legion is being held against his will as he has to be freed by Shep.  If someone kidnaps you, is it a requirement that they tell you why?  So Legion says the Reaper is controlling them by hacking into them and using a signal to control them?  How does that tell anyone anything that would prove he knows more than he is telling them?

3.  I am not sure of the point.  People are relying on what Legion said.  You are relying on nothing but your own speculation.  What is said in game trumps speculation.  You are free to speculate of course but you are acting like the people relying on what the game says are somehow have less proof than you when you are the one speculating.

Modifié par remydat, 07 mai 2013 - 01:56 .

[S.A.K]

@remydat

1. That is a good theory.

2. That is exactly where I wanted you to think. If Legion was vague about the thing, it makes people think like I said before. If Legion didn't tell Shepard what it told Shepard, people would think Reapers hacked the Geth but would be suspicious why the signal for control was transmitted from a Geth ship. Then they would consider Geth allied with Reapers willingly because some Geth(Heretics) already did that. And nobody (not even you) will think the Quarian attack made them do it. Legion was being smart.

3. This is where I wanted this thread to prove. I am not looking to 100% prove Geth allied with Reapers before. I am looking to disprove Geth supports claim that "Quarians made Geth ally with Reapers" which is solely based on Legions words without any proof. I just made it clear how Legion could have lied. So until someone can prove Legion didn't lie with some proof (which is sadly not available) "Quarians made Geth ally with the Reapers" is a moot point.

I think I am done here.

[remydat]

S.A.K

2. I am not following this logic at all.  The reaper code is just code or data.  As long as the Geth ship has hardware and software, it can be used to transmit that data.  Just like Xen's weapon just transmits data to the Geth.  It just so happens that data is junk data that overloads the Geth processors.  Asking why the reaper code is transmitted from a Geth ship is like asking why the junk data is transmitted via Xen's weapon.  The method by which the data is transmitted is irrelevant.

3. Everyone already knew it was based on just Legion's statements.  The actual scene showing the Geth shaking hands with the Reaper is not shown so it could only ever have been based on Legion's statement because no one else was there to see it.  You either accept what he says or your don't.  By this logic, nothing that is not visually presented in the game should be believed since there is no proof except what people tell us.  For example, we never see those diplomatic ships get shot down.  We are only told by organics that it happened.  So guess it didn't happen.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K

2. I am not following this logic at all.  The reaper code is just code or data.  As long as the Geth ship has hardware and software, it can be used to transmit that data.  Just like Xen's weapon just transmits data to the Geth.  It just so happens that data is junk data that overloads the Geth processors.  Asking why the reaper code is transmitted from a Geth ship is like asking why the junk data is transmitted via Xen's weapon.  The method by which the data is transmitted is irrelevant.

3. Everyone already knew it was based on just Legion's statements.  The actual scene showing the Geth shaking hands with the Reaper is not shown so it could only ever have been based on Legion's statement because no one else was there to see it.  You either accept what he says or your don't.  By this logic, nothing that is not visually presented in the game should be believed since there is no proof except what people tell us.  For example, we never see those diplomatic ships get shot down.  We are only told by organics that it happened.  So guess it didn't happen.

2. The Reaper transmittion equipment is install on that ship and Legion was connected to it. So it's not just software. A 106m Reaper didn't go in there and set it up it self. Think along that line and I am sure you'll get it.

3. It's said by organics as in not just one person. And Shepard comes across couple of those ship his/herself. So there is proof to suggest that. The rest rest is what I just said. I don't have to say it again.

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...t is exactly where I wanted you to think. If Legion was vague about the thing, it mak before. If Legion didn't tell Shepard what it told Shepard, people would think Reapers hacked the Geth but would be suspicious why the signal for control was transmitted from a Geth ship. Then they would consider Geth allied with Reapers willingly because some Geth(Heretics) already did that. And nobody (not even you) will think the Quarian attack made them do it. Legion was being smart.

3. This is where I wanted this thread to prove. I am not looking to 100% prove Geth allied with Reapers before. I am looking to disprove Geth supports claim that "Quarians made Geth ally with Reapers" which is solely based on Legions words without any proof. I just made it clear how Legion could have lied. So until someone can prove Legion didn't lie with some proof (which is sadly not available) "Quarians made Geth ally with the Reapers" is a moot point.

I think I am done here.

The thing is that you are showing double standards here. The Quarians can tell you anything and you belive it without question. A Quarian said it therefor it's the truth.

A Geth said something.... nah I need further proof. Tali kind of supports what Legion said with vague timeline references.... nah I still need proof. 
Legion saved Tali from floating off to her death and waited for Shepard before taking off from the Dread naught... Hummm he probaby had some sinister motives behid saving their lives from Admiral Gerrels reckless attack that would have killed Tali and Shepard
If Legion hadn't been there.
Legion was trying to get Shepard squshsquahed by that reaper hiding in that (after sll we belive the Reapers tells their thralls the truth, they arn't manipulative deceptive and tricky and they preserve their culture and the free press, just look at the human husks. 
damnit! Legion swinged by with an escape vehicle as promised and unsupervised!
Further proof of Legions nefarious intent.

I can't see the reason for your double standards.. Or maybe I do, you are so infatuated with the Quarians that if one of them shoot your leg off and said, sorry I thought you we're a Geth on our commandship. You can visit the flotilla archives some time after the Reaper war has been dealt with! Let me escort you off the ship. Thank you my friend.

If a Quarian says something then you immediately accept it but if a Geth tells you something then you demand corraboration from several outside sources.

You are saying, what if Legion is lying, what if he is deceiving?
what if Veetor was at the colony to deactivate the colonys defences and the Collectors paid Rael Zorah with Technology, which he then tested but the experiments got him killed because he was careless.
Rael sent his own team of his most trusted operatives to recover his agent that had performed the Quarians part of the deal.
veetor pannicked when he saw that humans or cerberus was there to investigate so he reactivated the colonys defences which would otherwise had been destroyed by the collectors if they hadn't been inactive during the collector attack and set them to attack anything in sight.
After which he had planned to escape once all witnesses were dead.
When he saw that the humans were still comming closer he decided to act insane and turned over the thurough repport of the attack that he had been preparing for Rael.
Because someone fearing their own death would be more concerned with their own survival than "manualy" piecing together security footage and making advanced scientific scans of the collectors and their methods.
He would have spent more time sending the mechs on the Colectors, mechs that would have been immune to the swarms paralysing poisons.
There would have been footage of mechs and securuty fliers attacking the collectors.

1. So on one side we got disabled security mechs and flyer during a collrctor attack.       2.  A Quarian who choose to go on a pilgramage on a human starterup collony with very little to offer a Quarian who needs to bring something valuable back to his captain to earn his citcenship and become a full adult. Very unusual choice and unheard of before.
3. Small human colonies like that would even be an unlikely place to find dextro foodstuff at a reasonble price if at all.
4. In the end he might have brought back something considered "valuable" by the Quarians to end his pilgramage.
5. Instead of sending the mechs on the Collectors he worked hard on collecting as much data and footage as possible "manualy" as were told.
6. The collectors ignored him completely.
7. We got the Quarians word that there is nothing fishy going on, it's not like their operations or contact and dealings with other species has made them impopular.

In any ingame event it commes down to this. Do I trust this person and how much proof do I need. 
People will always distrust certain people no matter how much their views are supported by events and proof and confirmations due to their own prejudice. While they will belive thing they are told by a friend or someone they like even when it doesn't addup.
I've written this on my Samsung pad so I'm not sure if I managed to break some quoting through freak accidents 

[Khelish]

shodiswe wrote...