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[S.A.K]

Deathsaurer wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Anyway I still can't understand why the Geth made a truce with the Reapers without even trying to contact the Quarians via radio or something when they attacked. If they gave the Quarians a peaceful way to retake their world, they would have accepted it. Geth didn't even try that.

Goes back to ME2 if you take Legion on Tali's loyalty mission.

And like I said Geth didn't even try that.

[Argolas]

Ryzaki wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Sorry if this was addressed before, I didn't read the whole thread:

When did the Reaper get to Rannoch? The Quarians certainly didn't know there was one there, and their scanners should have noticed it when if it came to Rannoch after the attack started, right? I mean, I never heard of the Reapers having any stealth systems.

If they had Reaper help from the beginning the Quarians would've been dead long before Shep got there.

I don't think so, setting up the upgrades may have taken time. You know, capturing Legion and stuff.

[Deathsaurer]

It's kinda hard to think someone is willing to coexist when they're trying you systematically wipe you out. We know that falls entirely on the heads of 3 people but the Geth can't know that. As far as they know the Quarians are behaving the exact same way they always have.

[S.A.K]

Deathsaurer wrote...

It's kinda hard to think someone is willing to coexist when they're trying you systematically wipe you out. We know that falls entirely on the heads of 3 people but the Geth can't know that. As far as they know the Quarians are behaving the exact same way they always have.

That tends to happen when the Geth were blocking all communications. Quarians couldn't contact them even if they wanted to. Geth could have just tried to talk with the Quarians and come to a truce before you know becoming willing Reaper slaves. They had 17 days before Quarians hit the mega structure.
But it looks to me like the Geth might have allied with or had an agreement with the Geth before the Quarians attacked the Dyson Sphere as I explained in the OP.

Modifié par S.A.K, 05 mai 2013 - 04:39 .

[Argolas]

Deathsaurer wrote...

It's kinda hard to think someone is willing to coexist when they're trying you systematically wipe you out. We know that falls entirely on the heads of 3 people but the Geth can't know that. As far as they know the Quarians are behaving the exact same way they always have.

The attitude is mutual, but the difference is that the Quarians are a people of many individuals with different opinions while the Geth are a consensus. You can't blame a Quarian for what other Quarians have done. You can blame a Geth for what other Geth have done (as long as they are part of the consensus at least which, in ME3, is true for all Geth except Legion).

[Deathsaurer]

S.A.K wrote...


That tends to happen when the Geth were blocking all communications. Quarians couldn't contact them even if they wanted to. Geth could have just tried to talk with the Quarians and come to a truce before you know becoming willing Reaper slaves.

It was too late by then. There was no truce to be had. That is obvious to everyone. Neither side ever believed such a thing was possible.

But it looks to me like the Geth might have allied with or had an agreement with the Reapers before the Quarians attacked the Dyson Sphere as I explained in the OP.

They clearly weren't allied or the Quarians would have died horirbly. Entertaining an offer while they're getting their collective butts kicked is certainly possible and doesn't at all clash with anything Legion actually said.

[Iamjdr]

@op
I remember bringing this point up in the great Geth/Quarian debate thread a while back. The only defense people had was that it had somehow snuck onto rannoch past the already attacking quarians who were to busy attacking to notice a reaper landing to assist there enemies. Only I have a few problems with that and here they are. First why doesn't legion even mention there is a actual reaper on rannoch? Surley he knew it was there seeing as he was the one strapped up. and Why was it legion who was strapped to the reaper tech? Is it because he was the only one left who didn't agree they should take the reapers deal? Plus from the look of that underground silo it was built to hide that reaper from being detected. I mean the reaper destroyer on Tachunka wasn't underground hiding when you get there, it was stomping around messin **** up making its presence known. Lastly why is it the legion tries to murder me if I don't let him upload reaper code? Which was after he had already lied to me, didn't tell me he was gathering forces in the consensus all while showing me his seemingly hand picked slide show from the start of the morning war that was missing quite a few important details. And to top it all off now legion no longer belives in the geth making there own future they would rather just upgrade themselves with reaper code and be done with it...sounds an awful lot like another faction of Geth that legion told me about and I supposidly wiped out back in me2.

[S.A.K]

Deathsaurer wrote...

S.A.K wrote...


That tends to happen when the Geth were blocking all communications. Quarians couldn't contact them even if they wanted to. Geth could have just tried to talk with the Quarians and come to a truce before you know becoming willing Reaper slaves.

It was too late by then. There was no truce to be had. That is obvious to everyone. Neither side ever believed such a thing was possible.

But it looks to me like the Geth might have allied with or had an agreement with the Reapers before the Quarians attacked the Dyson Sphere as I explained in the OP.

They clearly weren't allied or the Quarians would have died horirbly. Entertaining an offer while they're getting their collective butts kicked is certainly possible and doesn't at all clash with anything Legion actually said.

It didn't have to be too late. If the Geth contacted Quarians and agreed to allow them to return to their home world if they stopped the attack and maybe few other conditions, the Quarians could have agreed. But the Geth didn't even explore that solution. They just allied with the Reapers.

By allied with Reapers I don't mean under Reaper control. The Geth had a Reaper hiding in one of thier bases and a Geth ship ready to transmit a control signal when the Quarians hit the Dyson Sphere. Geth went under Reaper control pretty fast and stopped the attack on the mega structure before it was completely destroyed.

[S.A.K]

Iamjdr wrote...

@op
I remember bringing this point up in the great Geth/Quarian debate thread a while back. The only defense people had was that it had somehow snuck onto rannoch past the already attacking quarians who were to busy attacking to notice a reaper landing to assist there enemies. Only I have a few problems with that and here they are. First why doesn't legion even mention there is a actual reaper on rannoch? Surley he knew it was there seeing as he was the one strapped up. and Why was it legion who was strapped to the reaper tech? Is it because he was the only one left who didn't agree they should take the reapers deal? Plus from the look of that underground silo it was built to hide that reaper from being detected. I mean the reaper destroyer on Tachunka wasn't underground hiding when you get there, it was stomping around messin **** up making its presence known. Lastly why is it the legion tries to murder me if I don't let him upload reaper code? Which was after he had already lied to me, didn't tell me he was gathering forces in the consensus all while showing me his seemingly hand picked slide show from the start of the morning war that was missing quite a few important details. And to top it all off now legion no longer belives in the geth making there own future they would rather just upgrade themselves with reaper code and be done with it...sounds an awful lot like another faction of Geth that legion told me about and I supposidly wiped out back in me2.

Yes, there is almost no way it happened in the way Legion tried to show. Geth supporters are just so focused covering Geth to even consider it.

I got another Question now. Does the situation change if Legion's ME2 loyalty mission was not done and the Heretics use the virus on the Geth?

[Deathsaurer]

The Geth won't consider such a thing until the Quarians give an indication they're open to it. Shooting the Geth isn't such an indication. Neither side ever indicated they were interested and thus the other side never considered the possibility.

The rest of that is nonsensical and I don't believe you actually believe it. If the signal was ready to go the attack would have failed entirely. In fact the Quarians never would have made it that close. The Reaper thing I'm not going to try to make sense of because I always thought that fight was stupid as hell. If the Reaper had half a brain it would have parked in the back of the Geth fleet, slaughtered the Quarians, and bombarded Rannoch to kill Shepard. But nope, Shepard had to look cool rolling on the ground. This is clearly Idiot Ball and Rule of Cool at work.

[remydat]

The Reapers anticipated the Quarian attack and had a Reaper ready to capitalize in the event they did.

The Quarian attack started in the Far Rim. The Geth sent the bulk of their ships to the Far Rim ie the front lines of the War. While the Quarians and Geth were busy killing each other, the Reaper ie a tiny ship in a vast star system entered the system from the opposite side. The Quarians didn't notice and the Geth either didn't notice or were in no position to stop them because their forces were committed to trying to stop the Quarians and so they did not want to start another war.

The Geth get pushed back and driven back to Rannoch where the Dyson Sphere was and once it is destroyed the Reaper makes them an offer.

The bunker does not fit a Reaper perfectly. It is simply a huge hole in the ground. So huge in fact that you can't actually see the Reaper until the Normandy shoots missiles down the bunker and the Reaper has to fly it because the bunker is so much larger than it. There is no way a bunker that large and that deep could be built without it taking months most likely. That thing is probably close to a mile deep if not more.

[S.A.K]

Deathsaurer wrote...

The Geth won't consider such a thing until the Quarians give an indication they're open to it. Shooting the Geth isn't such an indication. Neither side ever indicated they were interested and thus the other side never considered the possibility.

The rest of that is nonsensical and I don't believe you actually believe it. If the signal was ready to go the attack would have failed entirely. In fact the Quarians never would have made it that close. The Reaper thing I'm not going to try to make sense of because I always thought that fight was stupid as hell. If the Reaper had half a brain it would have parked in the back of the Geth fleet, slaughtered the Quarians, and bombarded Rannoch to kill Shepard. But nope, Shepard had to look cool rolling on the ground. This is clearly Idiot Ball and Rule of Cool at work.

Have you paid any attention to what I was saying? I was saying isn't trying to get the Quarians to agree for a peaceful solution better than becoming Reaper slaves? You already know Geth don't allow communications from organics, so Quarians can't talk to them even if they wanted to.

The second part is a theory that fits the parameters given in the game. You are free to accept it or reject it after thinking about it. Only thing to suggest Geth were not already in some kind of agreement with the Reapers is what Legion tells you. There is no reason to buy what Legion said without analyzing. I myself find that the Geth managed to contact a Reaper, get it into a base on Rannoch, install the Reaper tech onboard the Geth ship, hooking up Legion into it and start transmitting the signal within the time it took for the Quarians to attack the mega structure to be highly unlikely. It's more likely that Legion just lied like it did several time in ME3.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

The Reapers anticipated the Quarian attack and had a Reaper ready to capitalize in the event they did.

The Quarian attack started in the Far Rim. The Geth sent the bulk of their ships to the Far Rim ie the front lines of the War. While the Quarians and Geth were busy killing each other, the Reaper ie a tiny ship in a vast star system entered the system from the opposite side. The Quarians didn't notice and the Geth either didn't notice or were in no position to stop them because their forces were committed to trying to stop the Quarians and so they did not want to start another war.

The Geth get pushed back and driven back to Rannoch where the Dyson Sphere was and once it is destroyed the Reaper makes them an offer.

The bunker does not fit a Reaper perfectly. It is simply a huge hole in the ground. So huge in fact that you can't actually see the Reaper until the Normandy shoots missiles down the bunker and the Reaper has to fly it because the bunker is so much larger than it. There is no way a bunker that large and that deep could be built without it taking months most likely. That thing is probably close to a mile deep if not more.

So you are saying a 160m long Reaper managed to hide inside the Geth base without a single Geth seeing it? I find that pretty hard to believe and I don't think Geth are blind. Geth being software, they must be all over that base plus Geth had defences setup all over the place like anti ship guns and such. If what you say happened Geth must be blind.

Or maybe Legion just lied.

[Argolas]

Legion always lies when it is to the Geth's advantage. It does not intend to cause offense, but the Geth aren't better than this.

[Iamjdr]

So the Geth just built the underground bunker for something else? Hmmm, What exactly and where did they put what ever it was when they decided to park the reaper in there instead. Another thing why was the reaper hiding at all? They didn't hide on any other planet.

[S.A.K]

Iamjdr wrote...

So the Geth just built the underground bunker for something else? Hmmm, What exactly and where did they put what ever it was when they decided to park the reaper in there instead. Another thing why was the reaper hiding at all? They didn't hide on any other planet.

Auld Wulf posted this:

Auld Wulf wrote...

Option 3:
Remember the Heretics? It's possible they built the bunker for Sovereign.

I can just see Sovereign cramped in there saying "Can't... move... tentacles.":lol:

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

So you are saying a 160m long Reaper managed to hide inside the Geth base without a single Geth seeing it? I find that pretty hard to believe and I don't think Geth are blind. Geth being software, they must be all over that base plus Geth had defences setup all over the place like anti ship guns and such. If what you say happened Geth must be blind.

Or maybe Legion just lied.

Did you read what I said? The Geth were busy getting killed by Quarians in the Far Rim.  They would have sent the bulk of their mobile platforms to the Far Rim.  When the Reaper comes they either did not see it since their mobile platforms were busy getting killed OR they saw it but since it was not attacking them did not want to start another war with another enemy while they were currently getting killed by the Quarians.  I think picking up a history book on WWI and WWII makes perfectly clear you don't start a two front war if you don't have too.  Germany did so twice and lost twice.

[Iamjdr]

Funnier is the thought that Sovvy would even allow the Geth to put him in a hole underground in the first place. He would probably have wiped them out then if they tried. Remeber the heretics worshiped him was a god and he was insulted.

[Whybother]

I've thought about this overnight, and I am now agreeing that the Geth at least had some open lines of negotiation with the Reapers before the Quarian attack.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

So the Geth just built the underground bunker for something else? Hmmm, What exactly and where did they put what ever it was when they decided to park the reaper in there instead. Another thing why was the reaper hiding at all? They didn't hide on any other planet.

Guess humans are preparing for a Reaper since they routinely build underground missile silos or bunkers as a quick Google search reveals.

http://images.search...d missile silos

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 06:41 .

[Iamjdr]

Remy the reaper was hiding INSIDE the Geth base not just somewhere random on Rannoch he had to be let in that thing had a giant blast door. And you still haven't answered the most important questio,n WHY it was hiding at all? Where else In the game are there reapers hiding on planets?

[Iamjdr]

Yeah except our missile silos oddly enough have missiles in them and please Don't tell me you Think the Geth  have a missile the size of a reaper cause that's not good either...

Modifié par Iamjdr, 05 mai 2013 - 06:48 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

So you are saying a 160m long Reaper managed to hide inside the Geth base without a single Geth seeing it? I find that pretty hard to believe and I don't think Geth are blind. Geth being software, they must be all over that base plus Geth had defences setup all over the place like anti ship guns and such. If what you say happened Geth must be blind.

Or maybe Legion just lied.

Did you read what I said? The Geth were busy getting killed by Quarians in the Far Rim.  They would have sent the bulk of their mobile platforms to the Far Rim.  When the Reaper comes they either did not see it since their mobile platforms were busy getting killed OR they saw it but since it was not attacking them did not want to start another war with another enemy while they were currently getting killed by the Quarians.  I think picking up a history book on WWI and WWII makes perfectly clear you don't start a two front war if you don't have too.  Germany did so twice and lost twice.

Cool story mate.
Geth didn't see a 160m Reaper sneaking into thier base is bullsh!t. How could all those AA towers and other defences miss something 160m long and even a single camara could spot the Reaper and alart. And do you want me to believe all Geth mobile platforms went to attack the Quarians? Really?
If they knew it and didn't care, Legion must know there is a Reaper under there. It's not the 20th century, Geth have instant communication devices. So Legion lied again.

Edit: You aren't seriously trying to say Geth ignored a huge Reaper sneaking into one of their missle silos right?

You are making so many stuff up without even considering Legion could have just lied.

Modifié par S.A.K, 05 mai 2013 - 06:55 .

[Iamjdr]

Yeah I also forgot about those AA towers which spotted our Kodiak shuttle.... the "didn't know the reaper was there" angle is lookin thin at best.

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

Cool story mate.
Geth didn't see a 160m Reaper sneaking into thier base is bullsh!t. How could all those AA towers and other defences miss something 160m long and even a single camara could spot the Reaper and alart. And do you want me to believe all Geth mobile platforms went to attack the Quarians? Really?
If they knew it and didn't care, Legion must know there is a Reaper under there. It's not the 20th century, Geth have instant communication devices. So Legion lied again.

You are making so many stuff up without even considering Legion could have just lied.

Once again, you don't start a two front war.  What part of this does not make sense to you.  A Reaper came.  It did not attack.  The Geth were currently getting killed by the Quarians.  They don't have the resources to start another war when they are already losing the current one.  So it is not a matter of not caring.  It is a matter of not speeding up your impending death by attacking a powerful enemy that is currently content not to try and kill you when you are currently being killed by the Quarians.  An enemy who once it was in communication range probably told you I am just here in case you want my help so just give me a holla when you do.

The signal was installed on the Dreadnaught and Legion was used as a booster.  At that point he is cut off from the rest of the Geth who are mind controlled.  So the logical conclusion is that the Reaper set itself up in the bunker after Legion was used as the signal booster and hence Legion does not know because he is no longer connected to the Consensus.  All he knows is that a short range signal was planned but does not know said signal was in fact the Reaper because once again, it was installed after he became the signal booster.

And I considered that Legion could have lied.  I concluded it makes no sense.  No one knows that the Geth accepted the offer willingly.  No one.  Shep when he meets Legion on the Dreadnaught actually thnks the Geth were forced.  Legion tells Shepard he is incorrect and the Geth accepted the Reapers.  It makes no logical sense for Legion to conceal the existence of the Reaper but tell the truth as to how they came to be under Reaper Control when there is no possible way for Shep or anyone to find out the truth except by Legion telling them. 

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 07:14 .