345 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

Iamjdr,

See above. You are making the erroneous assumption that the Reaper immediately went straight for the silo. More likely, he came and once he was in communication range made the offer during the initial stages of the war. The Geth likely refused until the Dyson Bubble was destroyed and they became dumber. They then accepted, installed the signal on the Dreadnaught and then when Legion was disconnected from the consensus and used as the signal booster, the Geth removed the missiles from the bunker and the Reaper went and chilled there unbeknownst to Legion who prior to being disconnected from the consensus only knew that a short range signal was planned.

And I am pretty sure missiles and bombs have gotten larger than the ones on Earth. See Turian Bomb on Tuchanka as an example.

[Whybother]

Are you seriously saying that Legion was installed into the Geth Dreadnought to amplify a Reaper signal but doesn't know there's a Reaper on Rannoch?

[Iamjdr]

Hmm so by your word he knew they were communicating and legion couldn't figure out short range signal = reaper nearby? That bomb on Tachunka was ment to take out the planet wasn't it? And for the record you obviously don't know what I belive seeing as I don't think nor ever said that he went straight for the silo.

[remydat]

I am saying the Reaper was likely in space right next to the Dreadnought when the signal was being installed. So the last Legion saw of the Reaper, it was right next to the Dreadnought. Once he becomes the booster he has no clue where the Reaper went or that it is in fact the short range signal. He most likely thinks that the short range signal wil simply be hardware and software separate from the Reaper and not the Reaper itself. Just like the signal on the Dreadnought is not the Reaper itself. Why would he or anyone assume it has to be the Reaper itself?

[Iamjdr]

Um because amplifiers arnt the source of the signal they just boost it. Where else would a reaper signal originate if not a reaper?

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Hmm so by your word he knew they were communicating and legion couldn't figure out short range signal = reaper nearby? That bomb on Tachunka was ment to take out the planet wasn't it? And for the record you obviously don't know what I belive seeing as I don't think nor ever said that he went straight for the silo.

You seem to be suggesting it is obvious it had to be a Reaper when I would argue without know it is a Reaper the natural assumption would be it is software or hardware external or separate from the Reaper itself just like the long range signal.  In fact, logically, I would expect the short range signal to require less software and hardware since its range is shorter not more.

The point about the bomb is it is much larger than our bombs.  I suspect missiles are much larger than our missiles.  And no you didn't say it went straight for the silo but the idea that Legion knows it is on Rannoch implies you think it went to Rannoch fairly soon while it is entirely possible it was in space until such time that the software and hardware it brought could be transferred to the Geth Dreadnaught.  

[Whybother]

remydat wrote...

I am saying the Reaper was likely in space right next to the Dreadnought when the signal was being installed. So the last Legion saw of the Reaper, it was right next to the Dreadnought. Once he becomes the booster he has no clue where the Reaper went or that it is in fact the short range signal. He most likely thinks that the short range signal wil simply be hardware and software separate from the Reaper and not the Reaper itself. Just like the signal on the Dreadnought is not the Reaper itself. Why would he or anyone assume it has to be the Reaper itself?

And the reason Legion didn't say "yo Shep I saw a Reaper in the system be careful ok?" is because...?

[Iamjdr]

Who exactly that is not a reaper would have brought reaper software or hardware to the Geth? Pretty sure Saren is dead. Or is the just some download for it off the extranet? And I'd suspect you would need one helluva bomb to destroy a planet so once again it is large for a reason I've also seen a normal size bomb on both Eden prime in me1 and the towers in the lotsb dlc.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Um because amplifiers arnt the source of the signal they just boost it. Where else would a reaper signal originate if not a reaper?

If it was that obvious then why didn't any of the smart organics in the room guessed it.  Sorry, you are only saying it is obvious because you know it ended up being a Reaper.  Are you claiming that as you were playing the mission you had already guessed it was an actual Reaper before it was revealed to be one?  If so I call bullsh*t.  You can build someothing to transmit a signal without it actually havine to be a Reaper.  The code is separate from the Reaper and all you need is Reaper Tech to transmit it. Doesn't have to be an actual Reaper.

[Argolas]

Whybother wrote...

remydat wrote...

I am saying the Reaper was likely in space right next to the Dreadnought when the signal was being installed. So the last Legion saw of the Reaper, it was right next to the Dreadnought. Once he becomes the booster he has no clue where the Reaper went or that it is in fact the short range signal. He most likely thinks that the short range signal wil simply be hardware and software separate from the Reaper and not the Reaper itself. Just like the signal on the Dreadnought is not the Reaper itself. Why would he or anyone assume it has to be the Reaper itself?

And the reason Legion didn't say "yo Shep I saw a Reaper in the system be careful ok?" is because...?

... because the Geth aren't better than this. That's really all. They have no moral standards at all. Lying is justified whenever it benefits the Geth. Allying with the Reapers is justified whenever it benefits the Geth. Wiping out the Quarians after the Morning War was not okay only because they couldn't calculate the consequences yet.

As soon as you don't have any mutual goals anymore, there is no reason to trust a Geth.

[Iamjdr]

And the nuke in me1 wasn't very large either those guys brought it out of the Normandy just fine.

[remydat]

Whybother wrote...

remydat wrote...

I am saying the Reaper was likely in space right next to the Dreadnought when the signal was being installed. So the last Legion saw of the Reaper, it was right next to the Dreadnought. Once he becomes the booster he has no clue where the Reaper went or that it is in fact the short range signal. He most likely thinks that the short range signal wil simply be hardware and software separate from the Reaper and not the Reaper itself. Just like the signal on the Dreadnought is not the Reaper itself. Why would he or anyone assume it has to be the Reaper itself?

And the reason Legion didn't say "yo Shep I saw a Reaper in the system be careful ok?" is because...?

What are you talking about?  Legion told Shepard the Reapers made an offer.  The implication is clear they made that offer IN-PERSON ie came to the system.

[Whybother]

remydat wrote...

Whybother wrote...

remydat wrote...

I am saying the Reaper was likely in space right next to the Dreadnought when the signal was being installed. So the last Legion saw of the Reaper, it was right next to the Dreadnought. Once he becomes the booster he has no clue where the Reaper went or that it is in fact the short range signal. He most likely thinks that the short range signal wil simply be hardware and software separate from the Reaper and not the Reaper itself. Just like the signal on the Dreadnought is not the Reaper itself. Why would he or anyone assume it has to be the Reaper itself?

And the reason Legion didn't say "yo Shep I saw a Reaper in the system be careful ok?" is because...?

What are you talking about?  Legion told Shepard the Reapers made an offer.  The implication is clear they made that offer IN-PERSON ie came to the system.

Reapers could have made offers in person or over comms.  Why wouldn't Legion tell Shepard that a big-ass Reaper ship that could destroy the Normandy was seen in the system and maybe he should be careful? That would have been kind of useful to know.

or maybe Legion just keeps on lying

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Who exactly that is not a reaper would have brought reaper software or hardware to the Geth? Pretty sure Saren is dead. Or is the just some download for it off the extranet? And I'd suspect you would need one helluva bomb to destroy a planet so once again it is large for a reason I've also seen a normal size bomb on both Eden prime in me1 and the towers in the lotsb dlc.

The Reaper came to the system and brought the software and/or hardware for the signal and installed it on the Greadnought while it was in space as there was a little war going on so their Dreadnaughts were in space not on Rannoch.  Legion told you they came and made an offer.  The offer was made once they entered the system.  They don't have to go land on Rannoch to make an offer.  They can do it from space.  So again, it is perfectly reasonable for Legion to assume after the Reaper left the Dreadnought in space, it gave more hardware and software to the Geth to install the short range signal and then went about their merry way.

[Iamjdr]

You call bull**** that someone may have noticed something you didn't? Seriously? And then you say the implication is clear but why beat around the bush?

[shodiswe]

Whybother wrote...

Are you seriously saying that Legion was installed into the Geth Dreadnought to amplify a Reaper signal but doesn't know there's a Reaper on Rannoch?

If they installed the code into him and the dreadnaught equipment he was plugged into then he might not have had to be conected to the reaper. Which would explain  why he still had copy that was tinkering with.
He had a copy of the original code but it wasn't setup to contol him like a client platform. He had the full serverside copy. And full admin and progammer access with the full sourcecode and all.
What were told is that the base on Rannoch is a backup.
I don't think the reapers are broadcasting their positions to their slaves when it isn't nessesary.
Need to know seems like a good idea.
If Legion wanted to keep Shepard in the dark and get him/her killed then it seems like a very innefficient way to first save Shepard off the dreadnaught that the Quarians were destroying, then when a reaper is about to squash shepard to a puddle, drive up there and provide an escape vehicle.
As I see it there was no logical reason for Legion to hold back on such intel.
Also considering the way Legion was AI shackled I think his freedom to spy on the Reapers operations might have been somewhat limited.
Also, I don't think the Reapers expected anyone to liberate Legion from the dreadnaught.

[remydat]

Whybother wrote...

Reapers could have made offers in person or over comms.  Why wouldn't Legion tell Shepard that a big-ass Reaper ship that could destroy the Normandy was seen in the system and maybe he should be careful? That would have been kind of useful to know.

or maybe Legion just keeps on lying

You see here at 6:20 where Shep asks how the Reapers got control of the Geth.  You see how Legion says they did not and that the Reapers extended an offer.  Why would Legion not lie and say they were forced?  There is no way anyone can find out the truth and he is putting a lot of trust in Shep and Tali that they will not freak out.

So sorry, I think the idea he told the truth about the Geth signing up willing but was trying to lie about the Reaper makes no sense.  It is pretty obvious to me that in order for the software and hardware to be installed a Reaper had to be present.  It is implied from the dialogue which is why Legion doesn't need to say it outright and why Shep does not need to ask.  If you didn't gather from that scene that the Reapers came in person then I don't know what to tell you.

[Deathsaurer]

Argolas wrote...

Lying is justified whenever it benefits the Geth.

Same as every other race really.

I don't see any problems with the Quarians attacking, the Reaper landing on Rannoch and offering upgrades to the Geth becasue they're losing, them excepting when they become super desperate, it giving them the modifications for the dreadnought that were completed roughly when the Quarians finally made it to Rannoch because plot, it also having told them of plans for a back up short range transmitter to be installed in a base that it decided to crawl into once the main signal was up and running so Shepard could have his silly Rule of Cool fight. The end.

Modifié par Deathsaurer, 05 mai 2013 - 07:55 .

[Whybother]

It is not logical for Legion to assume that and not tell Shepard about a Reaper sighting.

Turian Councilor tells you about the Reapers attacking Palaven:
Wrex tells you about the Reapers attacking Tuchanka:
Asari Councilor tells you that Thessia is vulnerable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBeQI_WroI&feature=player_detailpage#t=183s

So yeah thanks for the heads-up Legion.

[Argolas]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Lying is justified whenever it benefits the Geth.

Same as every other race really.

Nope. Most races understand that lies are very dangerous. As soon as the truth comes out, they are politically screwed. Geth don't care about politics and think they get away with anything just with a small "We did not intend to cause offense".

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

You call bull**** that someone may have noticed something you didn't? Seriously? And then you say the implication is clear but why beat around the bush?

Sorry did someone notice something I didn't.  I don't see people raising their hands saying they figured out it had to be a Reaper before the game revealed it.  Fine, let's take a poll.  Who honestly knew it was a Reaper before the game told them?  While you are at it, why did no organic in the game speculate or ask Legion if it is possible the signal is a Reaper. 

You can't claim something was obvious if you did not guess it before it was revealed and no one in the game speculated it was a Reaper prior to it being revaled.  Doing so is in fact bullsh*t as it is a hindsight argument.  Maybe you are confused but I am arguing from an in-game perspective not making meta arguments.  So I await evidence from the game that shows that someone in the game figured out the obvious fact the signal had to be a Reaper.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 08:01 .

[Whybother]

Shepard: "I'm not sure what's in that hole. Wait, this is a video game, it must be a boss fight!"

[remydat]

Argolas wrote...

Nope. Most races understand that lies are very dangerous. As soon as the truth comes out, they are politically screwed. Geth don't care about politics and think they get away with anything just with a small "We did not intend to cause offense".

Victus lied about the Turian Bomb.  The Asari lied about having a beacon for thousands of years.  The Salarians want Shep to lie about curing the genophage.  The Quarians lie by ommission in not revealing to the galaxy currently facing a galactic apocalypse that they were about to start a war and bring the Geth into the conflict.

So sorry, what do most races understand?

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 08:04 .

[Iamjdr]

Why wouldnt legion want to keep shep in the dark about some of the less desirable details just like in the consensus? Is it not logical for legion to lie because he knows his people have joined the reapers willingly and the galaxy will not react kindly including shep him/herself but he still thinks he can save them as long as he can keep shep thinking the Geth are victims. Such as we were minding our own business and then the evil quarians attacked us and luckily this very friendly reaper just so happened to be in the neighborhood to give us a hand. What a Good Samaritan that reaper was

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Why wouldnt legion want to keep shep in the dark about some of the less desirable details just like in the consensus? Is it not logical for legion to lie because he knows his people have joined the reapers willingly and the galaxy will not react kindly including shep him/herself but he still thinks he can save them as long as he can keep shep thinking the Geth are victims. Such as we were minding our own business and then the evil quarians attacked us and luckily this very friendly reaper just so happened to be in the neighborhood to give us a hand. What a Good Samaritan that reaper was

The bold is the problem.  There is no way for anyone to know or prove this.  If Legion's intent is to lie then he would lie and say the Quarians attacked and then the Reapers came and hacked them as Tali suggested forcing the Geth to become their slaves.  I already posted the vid.  Shep thinks the Reapers controlled the Reapers against their will.  Legion tells Shep he is incorrect and the Geth accepted willingly because of the Quarian attack.

Look, you can believe what you want but doesn't make much sense to me to admit you willingly joined the Reapers.