345 réponses à ce sujet

[Iamjdr]

So you honestly think its impossible I figured out the was a reaper on rannoch before I saw it? Sorry to blow your mind I guess but I don't need things completely spelled out for me ingame to put 2 an 2 together.

[remydat]

Whybother wrote...

Shepard: "I'm not sure what's in that hole. Wait, this is a video game, it must be a boss fight!"

Again, did you know it was a Reaper before you saw the bunker?  Did anyone in the game discover the obvious fact it was a Reaper?  Honest questions.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

So you honestly think its impossible I figured out the was a reaper on rannoch before I saw it? Sorry to blow your mind I guess but I don't need things completely spelled out for me ingame to put 2 an 2 together.

Did you?  Yes or no?  And if so aside from you playing a game then what in game evidence did you rely on?  Did an organic in the game suggest this conclusion?  Again, I am speaking from an in-game perspective not as a game player.  You are claiming this was obvious so what in game made it obvious besides the fact you are playing a game and how is it no organic figured out the obvious?

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 08:13 .

[Argolas]

remydat wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Nope. Most races understand that lies are very dangerous. As soon as the truth comes out, they are politically screwed. Geth don't care about politics and think they get away with anything just with a small "We did not intend to cause offense".

Victus lied about the Turian Bomb.  The Asari lied about having a beacon for thousands of years.  The Salarians want Shep to lie about curing the genophage.  The Quarians lie by ommission in not revealing to the galaxy currently facing a galactic apocalypse that they were about to start a war and bring the Geth into the conflict.

So sorry, what do most races understand?

Did I say organic races never lie? No. I said organic races care about politics. I said that organic governments don't lie casually because that bites you in the ass. Moral standards are a thing of convenience. As long as you don't have a very strong reason to act otherwise, you'll want to behave morally right or you'll lose support of your people and allies. The Geth don't care about allies because they are isolationist and they never lose support of the people because government and people are the same.

[remydat]

Argolas wrote...

Did I say organic races never lie? No. I said organic races care about politics. I said that organic governments don't lie casually because that bites you in the ass. Moral standards are a thing of convenience. As long as you don't have a very strong reason to act otherwise, you'll want to behave morally right or you'll lose support of your people and allies. The Geth don't care about allies because they are isolationist and they never lose support of the people because government and people are the same.

I am pretty sure I heard Legion telling Shep the truth about them willingly accepting the Reapers when Shep thought the Reapers forced them.  Pretty sure when Shep says the Geth are better than this, Legion says empiraclly we are not.

Pretty sure Victus lied by ommission about the nature of the mission he was sending me on just like Legion lied about the additional goal of the server mission. 

Pretty sure Legion saves Tali at the end of the Dreadnought mission when she is about to go floating into space because her fellow Admiral did not care enough about her life to not blow up the ship she was on?

So I guess I am confused by the point.  The Geth tell the truth unless they think it may hurt the mission or when they think the matter is personal.  The Geth care about allies unless they get in the way of their mission.  Both those things are true of organics.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 08:24 .

[Iamjdr]

Yes i did know there was a reaper there tho i guess it was technically only a hunch or theory at the time till he popped up out of the ground.when I arrived on the quarians ship during the first debriefing where the quarians inform you of the initiation of the war and the sudden appereance of the reaper signal. My first thought was that the reapers had beat the quarians to the punch and landed on rannoch before the attack to try to get the Geth to join them again which the Geth initially denied due to consensus issues until the Quarins attacked them thus making the reapers deal much easier to accept.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Yes i did know there was a reaper there tho i guess it was technically only a hunch or theory at the time till he popped up out of the ground.when I arrived on the quarians ship during the first debriefing where the quarians inform you of the initiation of the war and the sudden appereance of the reaper signal. My first thought was that the reapers had beat the quarians to the punch and landed on rannoch before the attack to try to get the Geth to join them again which the Geth initially denied due to consensus issues until the Quarins attacked them thus making the reapers deal much easier to accept.

And why did no organic in the game make this same conclusion?  Because you are a game player and allowed the free will to make such conclusions.  The people in the game are fictional characters and bound by what the writers write.  Hence it is not obvious to them it has to be a Reaper because if it was the writers would have written someone making this obvious guess/hunch.

Just like I can watch certain movies and guess who the killer is but no one in the movie figures it out until the last 5 minutes of the movie.

Further, your theory above does not prove it had to be a Reaper just that you thought it was and ended up being right.  There is no scientific reason that the signal had to be a Reaper because if there was , then once again the Quarians skilled in the science and engineering of the MEU would have noted it had to be a Reaper.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 09:08 .

[Iamjdr]

Because the quarians have so much experience dealing with reapers right!? And exactly what scientific reason do you have that the reaper could be anywhere else sending this signal?

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Because the quarians have so much experience dealing with reapers right!? And exactly what scientific reason do you have that the reaper could be anywhere else sending this signal?

So it can't be obvious then which is what you said.  

I am saying the signal doesn't have to be a Reaper period.  It could simply be hardware and/or software transmitting the reaper code.  Legion nor anyone in the game ever claims this.

[Iamjdr]

I find it funny you asked and answered your first question for yourself in the same paragraph lol and then try to say my hunch was obvious from a meta perspective when you obviously didn't catch it....

[Ryzaki]

Argolas wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Sorry if this was addressed before, I didn't read the whole thread:

When did the Reaper get to Rannoch? The Quarians certainly didn't know there was one there, and their scanners should have noticed it when if it came to Rannoch after the attack started, right? I mean, I never heard of the Reapers having any stealth systems.

If they had Reaper help from the beginning the Quarians would've been dead long before Shep got there.

I don't think so, setting up the upgrades may have taken time. You know, capturing Legion and stuff.

Nope. Legion doesn't even take 20 mnutes to upgrade all Geth with the Reaper code. Why would it suddenly take several weeks? 

Capturing Legion wouldn't take too long either. He trusts them. And it would be thousands vs 1. No matter how BA legion is he'd get owned pretty fast.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

I find it funny you asked and answered your first question for yourself in the same paragraph lol and then try to say my hunch was obvious from a meta perspective when you obviously didn't catch it....

You made statements earlier that what else would it be but a Reaper.  I am telling you that the fact it is a Reaper is not obvious to anyone in the game so your hunch/theory is just that a hunch or theory until it is revealed.  In game, no one thought it was an actual Reaper.  If it was so obvious it was then someone would have said it in game.   If the science was such that it had to be a Reaper then someone in the game would have said this.  No one does because everyone like Legion assumes the signal is merely communications hardware and software that the reaper code is installed in.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 09:30 .

[Iamjdr]

And does anyone provide any valid ideas ingame about where the signal came from other then there being a reaper nearby? Or in your case the reapers just stopping by to drop off a join the reapers goodie basket and a business card.

[David7204]

Are you out of your mind?

It's incredibly easy to build hardware to transmit a signal. How the hell do you think your phone works? If you're using a laptop, how do you think it's accessing the internet?

[Iamjdr]

Increadibly easy huh so How soon do you think until my phone will be sending a signal that can alter the minds an entire race of AI?

[David7204]

We do it right now. Today. We have predator drones completely controlled and operated using signals broadcasted from half the world away.

[BeastSaver]

The geth did not ally with the reapers until after the Dyson Sphere was attacked. As for how quickly the reaper took control of the geth and installed itself on Rannoch, I ask: How the heck did Liara get the Shadow Broker stuff installed on the Normandy without Shepard noticing? It all happens pretty much instantaneously as a mechanic of the game. Also, why doesn't anything happen until Shepard gets there (with the exception of Grissom Academy, which falls if you don't do that mission before resolving Tuchanka)? Also a mechanic of the game.

Edited to add:

I wonder why the quarians couldn't seem to find other worlds to found colonies on as there seems to be several suitable worlds near their home Tikkun system, as well as worlds suitable for the turians in the Apian Crest (Palavan, Digeris, and several other scannable worlds you go to for assets). Surely dextro worlds can't be THAT rare. Since there are only 17 million quarians, that wouldn't make much of an impact on any dextro world. I suppose that's a Council thing where they are still "punishing" the quarians for their AI transgressions.

Modifié par BeastSaver, 05 mai 2013 - 09:51 .

[Bardox9]

I still think the Quarians are the bad guys in their 300 year old war against the Geth. Tali is adorable and sweet as can be, but they started the fighting both times. They don't deserve to be treated like victims.

As for how that silo got built in such a short time... hmmm... I KNOW.... the aliens built it @_@

[Iamjdr]

Like I said i do not belive the Geth were allied with the reapers till after the quarians initial attack. I do belive that the reaper destroyer was on rannoch before the quarians attacked tho.

[Deathsaurer]

The Reapers use QEC, they could theoretically be transmitting the signal from dark space for all the difference it makes. Just see the Collectors or anyone that got indoctrinated while they were there. They'd just need a piggy back like Rho. The root source was obviously the Reapers but there is no telling if one actually stuck around until it crawled out of the silo.

[David7204]

BeastSaver wrote...

The geth did not ally with the reapers until after the Dyson Sphere was attacked. As for how quickly the reaper took control of the geth and installed itself on Rannoch, I ask: How the heck did Liara get the Shadow Broker stuff installed on the Normandy without Shepard noticing? It all happens pretty much instantaneously as a mechanic of the game. Also, why doesn't anything happen until Shepard gets there (with the exception of Grissom Academy, which falls if you don't do that mission before resolving Tuchanka)? Also a mechanic of the game.

First of all, I'm guessing Liara had the equipment installed while the Normandy was docked on the Citadel.

Secondly, that's really not true; there are plenty of missions where Shepard doesn't arrive until action most of the action is over. Aside from that, it's just Narrative Causality.

[Iamjdr]

Predator drones are not AI and they definatly are not controlled by cell phones so what exactly is your point?

[remydat]

So let's reacp.

1. The Quarians attack with precision strikes on 4 Geth systems. The initial attack did not include the Tikkun system as the Quarians would need to get to the Mass Relay in the Far Rim first.

2. The Geth responded to the attack on 4 of their systems by mobilizing and send the bulk of their forces to defend those systems. As long as the relay that connects to the one in Tikkun is not taken, they have little reason to leave huge forces in the Tikkun system.

3. The Reapers anticipated the Quarians eventually attacking and were likely monitoring the Far Rim. Once the Quarian attack occurs and with the Geth occupied, a single Reaper enters the Far Rim and communicates with the Geth that it is not there to attack but to offer assistence. The Geth refuse at this time but do not engage it because they don't want to start another war when 4 of their systems are currently under attack so the Reaper goes through the Relay to the Tikkun System and waits.

4. The Geth are losing and have to retreat back through the relay to Tikkun to regroup. The Reaper is still there but again, they are getting their a** handed to them and so don't want to fight it.

5. The Quarians follow the retreating Geth and make it to Tikkun and attack the Dyson Sphere. The Geth are know dumber and so accept the Reaper offer. The Reaper then gives them any hardware, software, and the RC code to install on the Dreadnought while saying a similar signal will be placed on Rannoch. Legion is used as the booster and since he is not being mind controlled no longer has access to the consensus.

6. After this, the Reaper goes to Rannoch and the Geth clean out a missile silo so it can chill and watch the fireworks. Legion has no knowlege of this because he is no longer a part of the consensus as a result in 5 above.

People are free to disagree with the above. However, I see nothing in the game that contradicts this. I welcome people offerring evidence that does. Not an alternative theory but evidence that actually contradicts this. We an all come up with our own plausible theories but I want evidence that actually contradicts this theory.

As for alternate theories, my main evidence to contradict Legion lying about the Reaper is the fact Shepard thinks the Reapers forcibly controlled the Geth. The only reason we know the Geth went willingly is because Legion tells us. If you are going to lie about the Reaper being there all along then you might as well lie and tell them that the Reaper controlled you by force as that is a lie that is almost impossible to disprove and would have been more helpful than admitting you joined the Reapers willingly.

So in conclusion, I see nothing to contradict the timeline I laid out and have one BIG f**king reason to believe Legion did not lie about the Reaper ie he told the truth about the willingly Alliance even when Shep was leaning towards the Geth being forced and Shep being in no position to disprove Legion if he did in fact lie.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 09:50 .

[David7204]

It's the exact same principal. A transmitter broadcasts a signal. A receiver...well...receives it. The only difference is the complexity of the signal and the power of the transmitter. Obviously cell phones are not incredibly powerful else you'd probably get brain cancer from the microwaves going through your skull.

But rest assured that broadcasting complex and powerful signals is well within our grasp.

Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 09:57 .

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

And does anyone provide any valid ideas ingame about where the signal came from other then there being a reaper nearby? Or in your case the reapers just stopping by to drop off a join the reapers goodie basket and a business card.

No why would they?  All you need is communications hardware, software, and the RC and the ability for that hardware and software to interface with the Geth prgramming to transmit the code.  There would be no reason to believe an actual Reaper is required.  Technically, if the internet was capable of interfacing with Geth programming, you could use it to transmit the Reaper Code.  

Tali in fact during the Dreadnought mission suggests the Geth were simply hacked.  You don't need a Reaper to hack Geth.  You can do that with just a omni tool.  So no, there is no reason for anyone to believe a Reaper is required to hack the Geth and install Reaper Code.