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[BeastSaver]

David7204 wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

The geth did not ally with the reapers until after the Dyson Sphere was attacked. As for how quickly the reaper took control of the geth and installed itself on Rannoch, I ask: How the heck did Liara get the Shadow Broker stuff installed on the Normandy without Shepard noticing? It all happens pretty much instantaneously as a mechanic of the game. Also, why doesn't anything happen until Shepard gets there (with the exception of Grissom Academy, which falls if you don't do that mission before resolving Tuchanka)? Also a mechanic of the game.

First of all, I'm guessing Liara had the equipment installed while the Normandy was docked on the Citadel.

Secondly, that's really not true; there are plenty of missions where Shepard doesn't arrive until action most of the action is over. Aside from that, it's just Narrative Causality.

So...where did Liara store this equipment while she was on Mars? And "my" Shepard wasn't on the Citadel very long before going to Palavan's moon. It would take more than a couple of hours to install. Whether or not you go to Thessia right away (or just about any other mission) or wait until after doing various other main or side quests, you still enter at the same point in the conflict.

Modifié par BeastSaver, 05 mai 2013 - 10:00 .

[remydat]

David7204 wrote...

It's the exact same principal. A transmitter broadcasts a signal. A receiver...well...receives it. The only difference is the complexity of the signal and the power of the transmitter. Obviously cell phones are not incredibly powerful else you'd probably get brain cancer from the microwaves going through your skull.

But rest assured that sending boardcast complex and powerful signals is well within our grasp.

Exactly, the suggestion that a Reaper is required to transmit code is pretty much against any known understanding of how communications work. Otherwise, how am I able to hack Geth?  How was Xen's weapon able to disable Geth within it's range?  Once you can do those these then all you then need to do is transmit the code.  The issue has always been it is suppose to be difficult to access the Geth programming for anything other than a short period of time because they have security preventing it.  Something that a Super AI that can actually hack organics should not really have a problem with.

[Iamjdr]

We don't even have true AI in our world but your telling me we have a firm grasp on how to control it from a long distance using just a signal and your telling me its simple okay... This is we're I exit the conversation I guess

[David7204]

BeastSaver wrote...

David7204 wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

The geth did not ally with the reapers until after the Dyson Sphere was attacked. As for how quickly the reaper took control of the geth and installed itself on Rannoch, I ask: How the heck did Liara get the Shadow Broker stuff installed on the Normandy without Shepard noticing? It all happens pretty much instantaneously as a mechanic of the game. Also, why doesn't anything happen until Shepard gets there (with the exception of Grissom Academy, which falls if you don't do that mission before resolving Tuchanka)? Also a mechanic of the game.

First of all, I'm guessing Liara had the equipment installed while the Normandy was docked on the Citadel.

Secondly, that's really not true; there are plenty of missions where Shepard doesn't arrive until action most of the action is over. Aside from that, it's just Narrative Causality.

So...where did Liara store this equipment while she was on Mars? And "my" Shepard wasn't on the Citadel very long before going to Palavan's moon. It would take more than a couple of hours to install. Whether or not you go to Thessia right away (or just about any other mission) or wait until after doing various other main or side quests, you still enter at the same point in the conflict.

She didn't? She bought it on the CItadel?

And 'your' Shepard may have been on the Citadel whether 'you' wanted him or her to be or not. The Normandy left Earth in a hurry, it makes sense that the crew would have to spend some time stocking up on supplies and doing whatever else it takes to prepare a warship for lengthy travel and battle.

[David7204]

Iamjdr wrote...

We don't even have true AI in our world but your telling me we have a firm grasp on how to control it from a long distance using just a signal and your telling me its simple okay... This is we're I exit the conversation I guess

Maybe you should take a class in information theory and signal processing. That short answer is that any finite amount of information can be reduced to a signal, so saying 'just a signal' as if a signal is somehow primitive or ineffective is stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 05 mai 2013 - 10:10 .

[BeastSaver]

David7204 wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

David7204 wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

The geth did not ally with the reapers until after the Dyson Sphere was attacked. As for how quickly the reaper took control of the geth and installed itself on Rannoch, I ask: How the heck did Liara get the Shadow Broker stuff installed on the Normandy without Shepard noticing? It all happens pretty much instantaneously as a mechanic of the game. Also, why doesn't anything happen until Shepard gets there (with the exception of Grissom Academy, which falls if you don't do that mission before resolving Tuchanka)? Also a mechanic of the game.

First of all, I'm guessing Liara had the equipment installed while the Normandy was docked on the Citadel.

Secondly, that's really not true; there are plenty of missions where Shepard doesn't arrive until action most of the action is over. Aside from that, it's just Narrative Causality.

So...where did Liara store this equipment while she was on Mars? And "my" Shepard wasn't on the Citadel very long before going to Palavan's moon. It would take more than a couple of hours to install. Whether or not you go to Thessia right away (or just about any other mission) or wait until after doing various other main or side quests, you still enter at the same point in the conflict.

She didn't? She bought it on the CItadel?

And 'your' Shepard may have been on the Citadel whether 'you' wanted him or her to be or not. The Normandy left Earth in a hurry, it makes sense that the crew would have to spend some time stocking up on supplies and doing whatever else it takes to prepare a warship for lengthy travel and battle.

When Shepard enters Liara's room on the Normandy s/he says "what's all this?" So Liara has carte blanche to alter the Normandy withouth Shepard's knowledge? I find that a bit rediculous, but it is the story Bioware wanted to tell. Liara specifically says she salvaged crucial equipment from the SB ship before crashing it into the Cerberus cruiser. She may have bought some components on the Citadel - no proof in-game of that.

Granted stocking up of supplies MAY have been necessary, but how long would that take? Even Dr. Chakawas says the med bay was fully stocked when she comes aboard. My impression was that it was that way on Earth, since Admiral Anderson was planning on using the Normandy as his flag ship - how close was it to being 100% ready prior to the reaper invasion? You don't know - I don't know.

In any case, this will be my last post on this topic. Things happen in the game where there is apparently no time for them to happen. It just is.

Modifié par BeastSaver, 05 mai 2013 - 10:17 .

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

We don't even have true AI in our world but your telling me we have a firm grasp on how to control it from a long distance using just a signal and your telling me its simple okay... This is we're I exit the conversation I guess

So hacking an AI doesn't exist in the MEU and Xen did not create a weapon that breaks Geth security and attacks their programming?  In fact, her weapon is designed to send the Geth a bunch of Junk data and overload their processors.  So this makes no sense.  There is no reason for anyone in the game to believe a Reaper can't do what Xen did especially when Legion tells them that the Geth did this willingly.  If you give me your IP address, I can send you any data I want.  In fact, I can take control of your computer and access it remotely.  The IT department at my work does this all the time when we have issues.  Some of them are based in India and so I give them my IP address and they assume control of my computer and do whatever the hell they want with it.  The Geth willingly gave the Reapers access to them so this logic again makes no sense.  You don't need a Reaper to transmit Reaper Code.

You are ignoring the question because you don't have a good answer.  Furthermore, I have posted a timeline of events and I notice you are ignoring my challenge regarding it. 

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 10:19 .

[David7204]

You don't have to know. And that game doesn't have to prove it. As long as there's a plausible explanation, there isn't a problem.

[remydat]

Actually while we are at it. Explain to me how in this vid Legion is able to upload the Reaper Code when the Reaper is f**king dead? Oh that's right because once you have the code, you don't need a Reaper to upload it. This dude Legion uploads that sh*t to ALL Geth in like 2 minutes and all that was required was him to sacrifice himself.

So why again are people pretending a Reaper was needed?  

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 10:25 .

[Iamjdr]

How long does hacking last exactly and how far away can you be to initiate the hack? And what's the maximum number of platforms it can control? as far as I know Hack AI only affects the platform side of the Geth hence it only lasts so long. Now how exactly did zen use here weapon? Was it from really far away or up close? Well seeing as they said her weapon worked like flash bang I'd say they had to be pretty close wouldn't you? Now tell me how exactly you see a reaper being able to control every single Geth without itself being close by if anything just to make sure that everything goes according

[Iamjdr]

Ywt Legion has to kill himself for it to stick so its obviously not as easy as your trying to make it seem

[Deathsaurer]

How were the Reapers controlling Kenson's group from dark space? Or Harbinger controlling the Collectors they left behind? Their technology is vastly superior. I'd think that was obvious

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

How long does hacking last exactly and how far away can you be to initiate the hack? And what's the maximum number of platforms it can control? as far as I know Hack AI only affects the platform side of the Geth hence it only lasts so long. Now how exactly did zen use here weapon? Was it from really far away or up close? Well seeing as they said her weapon worked like flash bang I'd say they had to be pretty close wouldn't you? Now tell me how exactly you see a reaper being able to control every single Geth without itself being close by if anything just to make sure that everything goes according

How is Legion able to upload the code to ALL Geth without a Reaper.  In fact how is a single Geth platform like Legion able to turn a short range signal into a long range signal when he is has far less processing power than a Reaper?

This really makes no sense.  If this was impossible then Legion woudl not be able to do it without the Reaper and someone in the game would have figured out it had to be a Reaper.  They did not.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 10:33 .

[Iamjdr]

Kenson was indoctrinated....and seeing as the collectors were just super genetically modified protheans who knows what harby really did to them.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Ywt Legion has to kill himself for it to stick so its obviously not as easy as your trying to make it seem

Who said it was easy?  Go back and read your original statements.  You are the one suggesting it had to be a Reaper transmitting.  All that is required is for me to prove the tech exists and it does. 

How about we back up.  What is the point you are trying to make?  I thought it was that it had to be a Reaper?

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 10:36 .

[Deathsaurer]

Missing the point... Indoctrination still requires a command signal. Hell Harbinger was talking through the Collectors and Rho watching what was happening in real time, giving orders etc.

[Iamjdr]

Because legion is a Geth? And he's there on rannoch with all the other Geth, just like the reaper was there. I got a question for you. If legion didn't know the reaper was on rannoch why didn't he want to upload the code to the Geth until after the reaper died? He had the code the whole time.

[Iamjdr]

Point I am trying to make? You said i was bull****ting and that there was no way anyone figured out there was a reaper on rannoch before it was shown. I've told you that I did and how I came to that conclusion through just a few of the things I noticed ingame.

[Iamjdr]

All you've been doing is trying to say that i could have been wrong cause apperently the reapers could have just controlled the Geth from the sol system or darkspace even if they wanted to. which begs the question of why both that reaper and Sovereign himself had to actually ever go to meet the Geth at all when they could have just sent them a nice email with the reaper code as an attached file.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Because legion is a Geth? And he's there on rannoch with all the other Geth, just like the reaper was there. I got a question for you. If legion didn't know the reaper was on rannoch why didn't he want to upload the code to the Geth until after the reaper died? He had the code the whole time.

So you think the Reaper could not have had any other Geth sacrifice itself to upload the code?  That is impossible even when the Geth willingly accept?

Umm, he did not upload the code until the SIGNAL stopped transmitting.  If he uploaded the RC with the SIGNAL still transmitting then all that would happen is the SIGNAL would potentially overrule his upload.

Further, if Legion was being shady he could have stayed in the vehicle and uploaded the code in the vehicle while Shep and Tali are happy and outside talking about just killing the Reaper.  The sh*t takes like 2 minutes.

The reason he left the vehicle or didn't just disappear while Shep and Tali were distracted after having just killed a Reaper is because he TRUSTS Shepard and he wants organics via Shepard to approve.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

All you've been doing is trying to say that i could have been wrong cause apperently the reapers could have just controlled the Geth from the sol system or darkspace even if they wanted to. which begs the question of why both that reaper and Sovereign himself had to actually ever go to meet the Geth at all when they could have just sent them a nice email with the reaper code as an attached file.

No I am trying to say you are a game player and can come up with guesses or hunches.  The people in the game never question whether the signal is a Reaper because they are not game players that are predisposed to think about what the next twist in the story will be.  From an in game perspective, it is entirely possible and been proven that the reaper code can be uploaded without the Reaper.

So this is not about what you think.  The bullsh*t comment was about game players trying to insert their opinions formed in their role as game player and pretending like naturally the people in the game should reach the same conclusion.

[Iamjdr]

But who said anything about that? Can you show me the post that says anything about people ingame reaching the same conclusion as the player?

[remydat]

Also, while we are at it let's cover Legion's lies.

1. Geth Server mission - While we were in the server, the Geth communicated with me and told me they made a mistake and would join us. I had no idea they would do this before the mission so made a split second decision.

2. Legion having Reaper Code - Because I have more programs in me than a normal Geth and because I am in fact a Geth that knows how our defense systems and security work, I can hack into their security and get us an escape vehicle.

You can say what you want but the Shep as protrayed in the game would have had no reason to doubt the above answers. Legion had no real reason to admit he lied by ommission to Shep. If he wanted to really lie, the above would have been much better. Especially with respect to the RC, there is no reason for Shep to doubt that a Geth with more programs than normal cannot more easily hack their own systems. If Legion were being deceitful, he could just not reveal the RC and then upload it quietly when Tali and Shep leave the vehicle after the Reaper is killed.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Hmm so by your word he knew they were communicating and legion couldn't figure out short range signal = reaper nearby? That bomb on Tachunka was ment to take out the planet wasn't it? And for the record you obviously don't know what I belive seeing as I don't think nor ever said that he went straight for the silo.

Iamjdr wrote...

Um because amplifiers arnt the source of the signal they just boost it. Where else would a reaper signal originate if not a reaper?

The above implies Legion is lying because he should have known the signal was a Reaper. Since he never admits this and no one in the game ever suggests then obviously from their perspectives it being a Reaper is not a given.  The in-game people all believe a reaper signal could orginate elsewhere because if they didn't someone would have said so.

So your basis for calling Legion a lying is by suggesting he must know it is a Reaper when apparently no one in the game figured out it must be a Reaper including all the Quarian scientists, engineers, and even EDI.

Modifié par remydat, 05 mai 2013 - 11:42 .

[Iamjdr]

No that implies that legion didn't tell Shepard everything because how would he not know there is a reaper atleast nearby when it is the reason he is strapped to reaper tech and broadcasting it signal all over.