83 réponses à ce sujet

[Apple Lantern]

Oh, in that case my Shepard is definitely a hypocrite. I killed them and then took everything that was in the room.

BOOYAKASHA!

[AlexMBrennan]

I'd have sworn that this is the ME3 forum... Oh wait, it is...

What does it matter if a person loots because he passes through it or because he was looking for it?

Premeditated acts are generally considered worse crimes, and more harshly punished

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 05 mai 2013 - 07:10 .

[Khelish]

Samtheman63 wrote...

is that why he hacks into every bank terminal he finds and uses the money to buy fish?

Not everyone here spends 30,000 credits on pets when the galaxy is at stake.

[Samtheman63]

Khelish wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

is that why he hacks into every bank terminal he finds and uses the money to buy fish?

Not everyone here spends 30,000 credits on pets when the galaxy is at stake.

maybe not but they still hack into everything they see for credits

innocents, enemies, dead, alive.. it doesn't matter to shepard as long as he gets more money

Modifié par Samtheman63, 05 mai 2013 - 07:15 .

[Whybother]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

She proceeds to berate them about how wrong it is to steal from the dead and makes them promise to stop.

Funnier to kill them for it.

Even funnier if you could loot their bodies afterwards.

[Ageless Face]

Khelish wrote...
Not everyone here spends 30,000 credits on pets when the galaxy is at stake.

Right, only the cool people do it.

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Premeditated acts are generally considered worse crimes, and more harshly punished

In court, yes. Morally there isn't too much difference between the two.

[Jorji Costava]

Interesting; it looks like a case of ludonarrative dissononace, where the gameplay tells you one thing, and the story tells you a totally different thing (i.e. in GTA IV's cutscenes, Niko is a guy trying to break away from his bad past and make a better life for himself, but in gameplay, he can be a total sociopathic mass murderer). But in this case, we have dissonance between two different sides of gameplay: The dialogue mechanic, and the combat/interact with the environment mechanics.

[DWH1982]

I try to head canon out most of the looting. Ideally, most of that money should have come from your Cerberus pay.

Not sure how they could have implemented it. Perhaps as bonus pay for accomplishing side objectives, or using a "smart" approach to solve problems (example: you get "bonus" pay for hacking the mech when you're recruiting Garrus, because you demonstrated an intelligent approach to taking on an overwhelming enemy force).

[AlexMBrennan]

I'd argue that the two things are related - we punish premeditated crimes more harshly *because* we (in general) consider them to be morally worse

[Ageless Face]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'd argue that the two things are related - we punish premeditated crimes more harshly *because* we (in general) consider them to be morally worse

Really? So if someone will steals all your money, do you care if s/he planned on stealing or just passed by it?

[AlanC9]

osbornep wrote...

Interesting; it looks like a case of ludonarrative dissononace, where the gameplay tells you one thing, and the story tells you a totally different thing (i.e. in GTA IV's cutscenes, Niko is a guy trying to break away from his bad past and make a better life for himself, but in gameplay, he can be a total sociopathic mass murderer). But in this case, we have dissonance between two different sides of gameplay: The dialogue mechanic, and the combat/interact with the environment mechanics.

Meaning that many of us play sociopaths unless the game rules penalize sociopathy? Since there are no police in ME' and no effective police in GTA, might as well be evil?

[Argolas]

Illusive Man: "Shepard, we spent billions of credits in bringing you back, and I just got a report that you stopped to crack several safes and hacked multiple bank accounts while plague victims were suffering. Really?"
Shepard: "Why, the plague didn't affect humans. And quite frankly, your funding sucks. After all the money you spent, can't you just drop another million so I can focus on my mission?"
Illusive Man: "Err... TIM out!"

Modifié par Argolas, 05 mai 2013 - 07:47 .

[KaiserShep]

Kasumi did it. I'm innocent.

[Jorji Costava]

AlanC9 wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Interesting; it looks like a case of ludonarrative dissononace, where the gameplay tells you one thing, and the story tells you a totally different thing (i.e. in GTA IV's cutscenes, Niko is a guy trying to break away from his bad past and make a better life for himself, but in gameplay, he can be a total sociopathic mass murderer). But in this case, we have dissonance between two different sides of gameplay: The dialogue mechanic, and the combat/interact with the environment mechanics.

Meaning that many of us play sociopaths unless the game rules penalize sociopathy? Since there are no police in ME' and no effective police in GTA, might as well be evil?

I wasn't attempting to make a moral evaluation of player behavior. The point is that because the dialogue mechanics and the combat mechanics float free of each other, it's possible to generate massive inconsistencies if you play a certain way (paragon dialogue options, decidedly un-paragon behavior during combat). I see it as more a design issue than an issue of players not playing the 'right' way. These things can happen when gameplay and story aren't tightly connected. Ludonarrative dissonance is an incredibly difficult and seemingly intractable problem in game design, and I don't have any easy answers, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning nonetheless.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 05 mai 2013 - 08:13 .

[Ledgend1221]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Actually it is. You can RP it if you choose. You can meta game it if you choose. You can go on a rampage if you choose. You can choose which quests to complete and which quests not to complete. You can actually choose which side you support. Stormcloaks or Legion. Character development and storyline aren't the deepest, but the world is there for you to do what you want.

And TW2 is a cinematic rpg - with all of the auto dialogue.

[Argolas]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

[TheProtheans]

HagarIshay wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...
They were looting because they're looters, they purposedly went out on a mission to loot and get valuable items.
Shepard was merely passing through, if Shepard discovered nothing and just met the mission's goal then he would be satisfied with the outcome.
If the looters found nothing, they would be disappointed as they did not achieve their mission's goal of looting the loot.

They loot for personal profit, Shepard takes stuff that will help her/him save the galaxy.

What does it matter if a person loots because he passes through it or because he was looking for it? Either way, he took something that didn't belong to him. And it doesn't matter Shepard's reasons for looting, those people got their stuff stolen. THEIR stuff. Should a goverment take away and sell random civillians' houses for money profit because it "helps the country"? I think not.

They got their stuff stolen for the greater good.
Those few credits Shepard took could have been the different between Shepard surviving a mission or not.
If Shepard didn't survive that mission then the Reapers would not be stopped and everyone would be dead.
It is not like the government taking away houses for profit to help the country.

It is like a person suffering from cancer getting their money taken without their permission by someone looking to cure cancer.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 05 mai 2013 - 08:57 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Shepard does steal a lot of money.

Which is weird, considering that "credits" should be basically trackable. Maybe not in Omega quite so much, they'd probably deal in something more solid.

[BeastSaver]

Sometimes, I send my crew *over there* so they can't "witness" my thievery.

I got a kick out of Conrad saying that he "poked through crates for extra credits" in ME2.

I actually preferred ME1 where you found stuff in abandoned crates or were able to take the armor/weapons of vanquished enemies then sell the stuff for credits.

[PsyrenY]

Honestly, ME2 has the best looting mechanic of them all. It's basically you taking snapshots of various things with your omnitool and TIM wiring creds to your bank account in exchange for the intel; for instance, the geth terminals on the Heretic station that contain credits make no sense otherwise, geth have no use for credits. I headcanoned that I was passing on schematics of the safes and computers themselves rather than cracking them open, which of course solved the "looting" issue on Omega neatly.

ME3 makes much less sense in this regard - either we believe that the Alliance is sitting on tons of funds that they're not giving you when the galaxy is already at stake, or that Cerberus and the Reapers are simply leaving credit chits all over their bases. Even with Kasumi's e-mail that basically says this, I have a hard time buying it.

ME1 is pretty funny about this too, since you can even find credits and salvage in Alliance bases (like the Luna base.) I don't think Hackett would be okay with you pawning human tech, Spectre or no Spectre.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 06 mai 2013 - 01:03 .

[Wolfva2]

That's always been the problem with RPGs. The designers put stuff in drawers and safes specifically so we can take it. Eventually, we become trained to automatically 'loot' anything we find. And, of course, we do it without penalties.

I think it was the Baldur Gate games where stealing could get you in trouble, even affecting your reputation. I left many a good piece of equipment behind because someone yelling, "What're ya doin in mah drawers! THEIF THEIF!" always made me feel bad. I dunno, maybe my next play through will be done as an honest citizen instead of Shepard going a viking on the Universe.

[Ledgend1221]

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

[Big Bad]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Honestly, ME2 has the best looting mechanic of them all. It's basically you taking snapshots of various things with your omnitool and TIM wiring creds to your bank account in exchange for the intel; for instance, the geth terminals on the Heretic station that contain credits make no sense otherwise, geth have no use for credits. I headcanoned that I was passing on schematics of the safes and computers themselves rather than cracking them open, which of course solved the "looting" issue on Omega neatly.

That's very creative and actually makes sense.  I may have to try headcanoning that sometime.