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[Argolas]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

Don't say that. There is good writing in there- just not in the story. It's in the setting. TES always had a way stronger setting than story.

[In Exile]

Argolas wrote...
Don't say that. There is good writing in there- just not in the story. It's in the setting. TES always had a way stronger setting than story.

If someone makes me watch Manos the Hands of Fate, it doesn't become a better story because the setting was kind of creative (not that it was, but still).

[Argolas]

In Exile wrote...

Argolas wrote...
Don't say that. There is good writing in there- just not in the story. It's in the setting. TES always had a way stronger setting than story.

If someone makes me watch Manos the Hands of Fate, it doesn't become a better story because the setting was kind of creative (not that it was, but still).

Dunno what you are talking about, but in TES it works. How many hours do you actually spend doing the main quest? About 10 at best I think. How much does one play a TES game? Up to hundreds of hours. Setting is much more important than the story in this case.

But oh well, I guess I should stop discussing that. This thread was about Shepard and loot, huh?

[Megaton_Hope]

I don't play games I don't like for a hundred hours, personally. That included Oblivion; I didn't like looking at the characters, reading the massive exposition lumps, or fighting the monsters.

[remydat]

Big Bad wrote...

Does anybody else recall that scene from ME2 in the Omega plague area where Shepard wanders into the apartment of a dead Turian and finds two human looters?  She proceeds to berate them about how wrong it is to steal from the dead and makes them promise to stop. 

I always thought this scene was absolutely hilarious because of what an enormous hypocrite Shepard is.  I mean, my Shepard loots the hell out of pretty much every place she goes (and I imagine that is true of most people's Shepards).  Hell, not ten minutes prior to encountering these two ne'er-do-wells, my Shepard had busted into more than one locked apartment and grabbed anything that wasn't nailed down to the floor.  And yet she has the nerve to call these two guys out for their actions?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Shepard.

This point is so obvious that I can only assume the writers were using irony to shine a light on Shepard's tragic and constant struggle with her kleptomaniacal urges.  Well played, Bioware.  Well played. 

You have a choice to let them loot or not.  You have a choice to ignore the loot or not.  So Shepard isn't a hypocrite.  The game player is.  Bioware has given you the choice and it is up to you whether you want your Shepard to be a hypocrite or not.

So it sounds to me Big bad, you are the hypocrite.  Shame on you, lol.

[Vigilant111]

I don't understand why they stopped filling up your medi-gel on board the Normandy in ME2 and have to resort to looting. When playing on Insanity, it was a pain to get those packs

[Big Bad]

Argolas wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Argolas wrote...
Don't say that. There is good writing in there- just not in the story. It's in the setting. TES always had a way stronger setting than story.

If someone makes me watch Manos the Hands of Fate, it doesn't become a better story because the setting was kind of creative (not that it was, but still).

Dunno what you are talking about, but in TES it works. How many hours do you actually spend doing the main quest? About 10 at best I think. How much does one play a TES game? Up to hundreds of hours. Setting is much more important than the story in this case.

I literally played over three hundred hours of Skyrim before I even finished the main quest, so I agree with you completely.

[Big Bad]

remydat wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Does anybody else recall that scene from ME2 in the Omega plague area where Shepard wanders into the apartment of a dead Turian and finds two human looters?  She proceeds to berate them about how wrong it is to steal from the dead and makes them promise to stop. 

I always thought this scene was absolutely hilarious because of what an enormous hypocrite Shepard is.  I mean, my Shepard loots the hell out of pretty much every place she goes (and I imagine that is true of most people's Shepards).  Hell, not ten minutes prior to encountering these two ne'er-do-wells, my Shepard had busted into more than one locked apartment and grabbed anything that wasn't nailed down to the floor.  And yet she has the nerve to call these two guys out for their actions?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Shepard.

This point is so obvious that I can only assume the writers were using irony to shine a light on Shepard's tragic and constant struggle with her kleptomaniacal urges.  Well played, Bioware.  Well played. 

You have a choice to let them loot or not.  You have a choice to ignore the loot or not.  So Shepard isn't a hypocrite.  The game player is.  Bioware has given you the choice and it is up to you whether you want your Shepard to be a hypocrite or not.

So it sounds to me Big bad, you are the hypocrite.  Shame on you, lol.

Touche.  You have me dead to rights.  I guess I'm the one with the problem, but I don't want to acknowledge it so I blame Shepard. 

[knightnblu]

Loot? Shepard does not loot anything. The taking of valuables from the residences of the dead and living is a tax. Shepard comes to the area, surveys the situation, kills all of the bad guys, and cures the plague. How is Shepard to pay for the wear and tear on armor, for ammunition, to purchase eezo and shield capacitors if there are no funds collected for his selfless acts.

A tax is only fair and the dead cannot be exempt because they have Shepard inspecting their homes to insure that everything is as it should be. You may argue that Shepard could just as well not visit these areas, but what if someone needed help? What then? So a nominal tax is charged to the resident living or dead. It is only fair.

Loot indeed, the nerve of some people!

[Megaton_Hope]

Vigilant111 wrote...

I don't understand why they stopped filling up your medi-gel on board the Normandy in ME2 and have to resort to looting. When playing on Insanity, it was a pain to get those packs

Plus, think about how that affects the poor residents of Omega. How often do you think supply shipments come around there?

[remydat]

Big Bad wrote...

Touche.  You have me dead to rights.  I guess I'm the one with the problem, but I don't want to acknowledge it so I blame Shepard. 

Well if it helps, I like to think those dead people are paying me for killing their attackers and upholding the law.

Modifié par remydat, 06 mai 2013 - 05:15 .

[Ageless Face]

TheProtheans wrote...
They got their stuff stolen for the greater good.
Those few credits Shepard took could have been the different between Shepard surviving a mission or not.
If Shepard didn't survive that mission then the Reapers would not be stopped and everyone would be dead.
It is not like the government taking away houses for profit to help the country.

It is like a person suffering from cancer getting their money taken without their permission by someone looking to cure cancer.

They got their stuff stolen, perioud. Do you think the people who work for their money care what reason someone took it? The situation is exactly like a goverment doing that, the goverment belives it's for the greater good of the country, which those civillians live in. But just like how the goverment should find ways to help the country that doesn't hurt it's civillians, Shepars should do the same. Shepard has funders, they have responsibility to care for money problems, not the civillians.

Yes, it's like that. And it's just as wrong. Someone who wants to cure cancer should be funded for it by official sources, not by illigal acts.

[TheProtheans]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

I don't even want to know what you base genre on.
And to say it in a Mass effect 3 forum, such irony should never exist.

[TheProtheans]

HagarIshay wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...
They got their stuff stolen for the greater good.
Those few credits Shepard took could have been the different between Shepard surviving a mission or not.
If Shepard didn't survive that mission then the Reapers would not be stopped and everyone would be dead.
It is not like the government taking away houses for profit to help the country.

It is like a person suffering from cancer getting their money taken without their permission by someone looking to cure cancer.

They got their stuff stolen, perioud. Do you think the people who work for their money care what reason someone took it? The situation is exactly like a goverment doing that, the goverment belives it's for the greater good of the country, which those civillians live in. But just like how the goverment should find ways to help the country that doesn't hurt it's civillians, Shepars should do the same. Shepard has funders, they have responsibility to care for money problems, not the civillians.

Yes, it's like that. And it's just as wrong. Someone who wants to cure cancer should be funded for it by official sources, not by illigal acts.

It is not like the government taking houses to make profit and screwing individuals.
The Gov is doing it for greed and captialism, their only goal is to make profit(probably for corporations funding them).

It is like the cancer victim.
Shepard is doing it to save the galaxy and ultimately everyone in it including the person he took credits from.
If Shepard took my credits my only disappointment is that I wasn't there to give to him it myself because I know that the only reason I am and will be alive is because of Shepard and possibly the gun he bought with my credits.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 06 mai 2013 - 08:32 .

[Megaton_Hope]

You should tell him to buy armor with your credits, guns are like a dime a dozen.

[PsyrenY]

Big Bad wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Honestly, ME2 has the best looting mechanic of them all. It's basically you taking snapshots of various things with your omnitool and TIM wiring creds to your bank account in exchange for the intel; for instance, the geth terminals on the Heretic station that contain credits make no sense otherwise, geth have no use for credits. I headcanoned that I was passing on schematics of the safes and computers themselves rather than cracking them open, which of course solved the "looting" issue on Omega neatly.

That's very creative and actually makes sense.  I may have to try headcanoning that sometime.

Thanks! 
It doesn't work quite as well for ME3 though. Maybe Liara is funding you instead? Though of course this raises the question of why she didn't simply set up a trust fund for you or something.

[Ageless Face]

TheProtheans wrote...

It is not like the government taking houses to make profit and screwing individuals.
The Gov is doing it for greed and captialism, their only goal is to make profit(probably for corporations funding them).

It is like the cancer victim.
Shepard is doing it to save the galaxy and ultimately everyone in it including the person he took credits from.
If Shepard took my credits my only disappointment is that I wasn't there to give to him it myself because I know that the only reason I am and will be alive is because of Shepard and possibly the gun he bought with my credits.

A goverment who takes away houses can also think it's doing the right thing for the country. And it might even help. But it still hurts the people in it. So what's so different betweeb the two?

You accomplished your honest goals by breaking the law and hurting people. It doesn't matter what good of a person you usually are, and it doesn't matter if you will put someone else's money to good use. It's still not yours to take. It's not the civillians' job to fund your mission. So like it or not, taking civillians money and property away makes you a theif, or a looter

[Kataphrut94]

I always felt bad swiping the medi-gel sitting next to Kal'Reegar even though he clearly needed it more than I did. Come to think of it, there are a lot of crates of medi-gel in the series that are positioned in such a way as to make the player feel like a complete jerk for taking them. The ones at the London FOB spring to mind.

[Ledgend1221]

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

I don't even want to know what you base genre on.
And to say it in a Mass effect 3 forum, such irony should never exist.

A good or strong story is a requirement for an RPG.
And don't even try the "You play the role of Dragonborn in the game Skyrim. Therfor RPG."
Because You play the role of a paddle in the game Pong. Therfor RPG.

[TheProtheans]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

I don't even want to know what you base genre on.
And to say it in a Mass effect 3 forum, such irony should never exist.

A good or strong story is a requirement for an RPG.
And don't even try the "You play the role of Dragonborn in the game Skyrim. Therfor RPG."
Because You play the role of a paddle in the game Pong. Therfor RPG.

A good or strong story is an opinion, if you base genre on whether you like the story or not then I already see the problem.
What Skyrim offers to the player is what makes it an RPG game, it's not a simulation or whatever like pong(table tennis).

Modifié par TheProtheans, 06 mai 2013 - 05:33 .

[Ledgend1221]

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

I don't even want to know what you base genre on.
And to say it in a Mass effect 3 forum, such irony should never exist.

A good or strong story is a requirement for an RPG.
And don't even try the "You play the role of Dragonborn in the game Skyrim. Therfor RPG."
Because You play the role of a paddle in the game Pong. Therfor RPG.

A good or strong story is an opinion, if you base genre on whether you like the story or not then I already see the problem.
What Skyrim offers to the player is what makes it an RPG game, it's not a simulation or whatever like pong(table tennis).

So San andreas is an RPG?

[TheProtheans]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But isn't this the way it is in every RPG? You talk to someone and then casually steal them blind? Well except in Skyrim where you actually have to be good at it -- the stealing part.

And murder.... yes killing three Aldmeri inside the head honchos castle in Markarth cost me a mere 40 gold because I accidently hit a guard who was looking the other way a couple of times. I surrendered immediately and paid the fine.

Skyrim is an RPG?
Oh ho!

Why shouldn't it be? It is one, and a very good one. Not quite as good as Morrowind, but a huge step in the right direction compared to Oblivion.

It has the writing of....of....well nothing really.
It's more of a lack of writing.

I don't even want to know what you base genre on.
And to say it in a Mass effect 3 forum, such irony should never exist.

A good or strong story is a requirement for an RPG.
And don't even try the "You play the role of Dragonborn in the game Skyrim. Therfor RPG."
Because You play the role of a paddle in the game Pong. Therfor RPG.

A good or strong story is an opinion, if you base genre on whether you like the story or not then I already see the problem.
What Skyrim offers to the player is what makes it an RPG game, it's not a simulation or whatever like pong(table tennis).

So San andreas is an RPG?

GTA games are open world action and adventure.

[KiriKaeshi]

Ah, just another example of disconnect between level designers and writers. Most obvious in priority: earth IMO....

[PsyrenY]

We actually have no proof that Shepard loots anything on Omega - it's not like we see him/her reach into any of the safes and scoop anything out. So my interpretation is just as valid as the one that makes Shep out to be a hypocrite.

[Jukaga]

I'd say the hypocrisy shows more towards Renegade Shep's attitude to other people killing in cold blood or for the greater good. I find it funny who indignant she can get 5 minutes after killing people who had surrendered or give Mordin grief over the genophage while I plan to sabotage it. Some of the dialog hints need to be a bit more clear.