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[Gamer Ftw]

 In my mind niether he or Anora have much right to the the throne. [although the fact she has ruled for her husband for years puts her ahead.]
Alistair is a bastard and his father never aknowleged him,he has no real claim.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think it's because they like him, and don't realize what being a bastard does to the claim to the throne. Not that claim matters much, since Anora's claim is about as weak and she's the only alternative given.

As for his family acknowledging him, his claim is backed by Eamon, and he resembles Cailan as far as bone structure. Maric's word would make things easier, but that's enough that Alfstanna buys it.

[Bhryaen]

Well, despite Eamon's insistence on bloodlines, but the "rule by blood" tradition isn't favored by the majority even by Eamon's admission. The world of Thedas seems to use upper class legislatures to "elect" monarchs anyway- so Anora, Alistair, the Warden, Bann Teagan, whoever- could ostensibly claim the throne "rightfully" due to a Landsmeet decision in their favor. Hell, you can even lose the Landsmeet vote outright and unanimously and then win a duel against Loghain (and the sitting Queen) to find yourself in charge of deciding everything. With the Provings in Orzammar used to settle things (much like Landsmeet duels) and Orzammar's rulers chosen by the "noble" Assembly there is parity between the ruling systems of the human and dwarven societies on this. So Alistair being a bastard or illegitimate isn't ultimately decisive anyway. Winning the Landsmeet is.

The story tends to feel a lot more rewarding if you put Alistair on the throne because you travel with him the whole game one way or another and he's generally a good guy, so it's like being able to put a friend in power. And, of course, there's the romance tendency. Thus it may not really come down to people thinking of Alistair as a "rightful king" as much as just the best monarch for the job, and the end slides do show Alistair to be capable of better than Anora in some ways.

[Gamer Ftw]

Bhryaen wrote...

Well, despite Eamon's insistence on bloodlines, but the "rule by blood" tradition isn't favored by the majority even by Eamon's admission. The world of Thedas seems to use upper class legislatures to "elect" monarchs anyway- so Anora, Alistair, the Warden, Bann Teagan, whoever- could ostensibly claim the throne "rightfully" due to a Landsmeet decision in their favor. Hell, you can even lose the Landsmeet vote outright and unanimously and then win a duel against Loghain (and the sitting Queen) to find yourself in charge of deciding everything. With the Provings in Orzammar used to settle things (much like Landsmeet duels) and Orzammar's rulers chosen by the "noble" Assembly there is parity between the ruling systems of the human and dwarven societies on this. So Alistair being a bastard or illegitimate isn't ultimately decisive anyway. Winning the Landsmeet is.

The story tends to feel a lot more rewarding if you put Alistair on the throne because you travel with him the whole game one way or another and he's generally a good guy, so it's like being able to put a friend in power. And, of course, there's the romance tendency. Thus it may not really come down to people thinking of Alistair as a "rightful king" as much as just the best monarch for the job, and the end slides do show Alistair to be capable of better than Anora in some ways.

I honestly thought he would be assassinated if I put him on the throne the first time I played.
Also,he's not really a nice guy.
And Fae,wasn't Anora a noble before she was married? her father was a teyrn by that time.
I think the strongest king would be my Cousland,too bad he can't rule alone.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 05 mai 2013 - 08:18 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I honestly thought he would be assassinated if I put him on the throne the first time I played.

It's a legitimate concern, but it doesn't seem to happen.

Also,he's not really a nice guy.

He is if you aren't Loghain.

And Fae,wasn't Anora a noble before she was married? her father was a teyrn by that time.
I think the strongest king would be my Cousland,too bad he can't rule alone.

Well, the Cousland line probably crosses the Theirin line enough that you're Alistair's closest living relative. So that's one thing in Cousland's favor. Then there's his parents' popularity. So it might have been doable, even if Bioware decided it wasn't. But only if Eamon put his support behind it, and managed to convince the rest of his faction to do the same. (Maybe that's why Bioware decided it wasn't doable.)

Honestly, though, my second Cousland only wanted a sinecure and a beautiful blonde wife. And my first decided all he wanted was Gwaren.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I seem to remember hearing that from the bartender at the Gnawed Noble.

[sylvanaerie]

I think both rulers have their strengths and weaknesses. Alistair seems to have a bit of the 'common man's' touch in that he proves popular with the underdog (and that can be very appealing). Anora is more a number cruncher and capable administrator, bringing much needed progress to Ferelden.

Ideally, a marriage between the two works out wonderfully for Ferelden, with Alistair learning more about governing (and surprising Anora with how well he does) and he tempers her more extreme measures (no rioting over lack of food by the elves in Denerim). Though admittedly, it sucks for both on a personal level since there's no affection there.

Half my wardens go with Al, half go with Anora. A couple of my wardens have hitched them for co-rulership.

[mousestalker]

Alistair:

Oh, better far to live and die
under the bastard's flag I fly,
Than play a theological part
With a kingly head and a kingly heart.
Away to the chanting world go you
Where templars are all well to do
But I'll be true to the song I sing
And live and die the rightful King

For I am the rightful King
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be the rightful King!

For I am the rightful King!
Chorus:
You are!
Hurrah for our rightful King!
Alistair:
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be the rightful King.
Chorus:
It is!
Hurrah for our rightful King!
Alistair & Chorus:
Hurrah for the/our rightful King!

Alistair.

When I sally forth to seek my prey
I help myself in a royal way.
I kill a few more teyrns, it’s true,
Than a well-bred monarch ought to do;
But many a king on a first-class throne,
If he wants to call his crown his own,
Must manage somehow to get through
More dirty work than ever I do,

reprise chorus

Apologies to Messrs Gilbert & Sullivan  

[thats1evildude]

Because he gives a way better pre-battle speech than Anora.

That's not the only reason I made him King, but it's certainly the biggest.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 mai 2013 - 07:25 .

[ejoslin]

thats1evildude wrote...

Because he gives a way better pre-battle speech than Anora.

That's not the only reason I made him King, but it's certainly the biggest.

It's the exact same speech, but his delivery certainly is better.

ETA: G&S deserve that apology!  Or maybe G. should thank you  That actually was pretty awesome.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 mai 2013 - 08:40 .

[cJohnOne]

mousestalker wrote...

Alistair:

Oh, better far to live and die
under the bastard's flag I fly,
Than play a theological part
With a kingly head and a kingly heart.
Away to the chanting world go you
Where templars are all well to do
But I'll be true to the song I sing
And live and die the rightful King

For I am the rightful King
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be the rightful King!

For I am the rightful King!
Chorus:
You are!
Hurrah for our rightful King!
Alistair:
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be the rightful King.
Chorus:
It is!
Hurrah for our rightful King!
Alistair & Chorus:
Hurrah for the/our rightful King!

Alistair.

When I sally forth to seek my prey
I help myself in a royal way.
I kill a few more teyrns, it’s true,
Than a well-bred monarch ought to do;
But many a king on a first-class throne,
If he wants to call his crown his own,
Must manage somehow to get through
More dirty work than ever I do,

reprise chorus

Apologies to Messrs Gilbert & Sullivan  

whew I don't know that song.

[Aleya]

Because the only other person available is Anora and she's a double-crossing ****?

If she'd shown a touch more humanity I think more people would've supported her. As it is, she's made to be disliked by the player so that we're stuck with being cold-blooded asses (Anora), icy practical (marriage), or nice (Alistair). Add to that the fact that Alistair has been with you the entire game, and we've got a lot of players supporting his "rightful" claim despite his qualifications being paper-thin.

In-game I imagine people run with it because of the blood connection. Despite Loghain being elevated to Teyrn most nobles still see him as a jumped-up commoner. Anora was noble in name before she married Cailan, but as far as the rest of Ferelden nobility was concerned she still wasn't by blood. And remember, in Ferelden commoners might be beloved, brilliant advisors, but they may never hold actual political power. It's a testament to Anora's intelligence and political savvy that she can keep the throne on her own at all. The nobility is certainly happy to kick her off the second a better option comes along. There's a reason Loghain wanted the Couslands wiped out before killing Cailan. And in my headcanon for those playthroughs where I leave Anora as sole ruler, Fergus does eventually go for her throat when he recovers from the grief of losing his family.

[Gamer Ftw]

Aleya wrote...

Because the only other person available is Anora and she's a double-crossing ****?

If she'd shown a touch more humanity I think more people would've supported her. As it is, she's made to be disliked by the player so that we're stuck with being cold-blooded asses (Anora), icy practical (marriage), or nice (Alistair). Add to that the fact that Alistair has been with you the entire game, and we've got a lot of players supporting his "rightful" claim despite his qualifications being paper-thin.

In-game I imagine people run with it because of the blood connection. Despite Loghain being elevated to Teyrn most nobles still see him as a jumped-up commoner. Anora was noble in name before she married Cailan, but as far as the rest of Ferelden nobility was concerned she still wasn't by blood. And remember, in Ferelden commoners might be beloved, brilliant advisors, but they may never hold actual political power. It's a testament to Anora's intelligence and political savvy that she can keep the throne on her own at all. The nobility is certainly happy to kick her off the second a better option comes along. There's a reason Loghain wanted the Couslands wiped out before killing Cailan. And in my headcanon for those playthroughs where I leave Anora as sole ruler, Fergus does eventually go for her throat when he recovers from the grief of losing his family.

It's a testament to Anora's intelligence and political savvy that she can keep the throne on her own at all.  Um,yeah exactly.
If the storyline had been realistic Alistair would be nothing more than a puppet king to whoever pulled his strings.
I have no idea why people think he's nice at all,but nice doesn't make a strong ruler.
I can picture him falling in love with the first  manipulating noblewoman who decides she wants to be consort.
But anyway,the nobility goes with whoever you choose they even let Anora execute Alistair if you allow it.
So they don't kick her out at the drop of a hat,it's because the PC convinced them to.
Btw,Fergus had no reason to go after Anora she wasn't responsible for his family's murder.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 07 mai 2013 - 03:59 .

[ejoslin]

I think Fergus+Anora would have made the best rulers.

[Gamer Ftw]

ejoslin wrote...

I think Fergus+Anora would have made the best rulers.

Not a bad idea if you're not a Cousland.
He was born and raised to know how to rule.
He would be very powerful with both highever and being King consort.

[Forst1999]

Well neither a bastard nor a childless widow would have much of a claim in real medival societies. But real world rules aren't necessarily Thedas rules.
The Fereldans seem to be really fond of their Theirin blood line, so ignoring that Alistair never was legitimated seems to be acceptable to them. Giving the crown to the Couslands would be the most sensible thing however. In such a situation, seeking a new dynasty makes sense, and they are the most respected line. I seem to remember at least some people wanted Bryce Cousland to be king instead of Cailan. Was that some side-dialogue, a coex entry, or my imagination?

[mousestalker]

I prefer Aeducan + Anora, tbh.

[thats1evildude]

At one point, Bryce Cousland could have been king instead of being Cailan.

I've no doubt that under normal circumstances, no one in Ferelden would have seriously contemplated putting an inexperienced bastard on the throne. (No offense, Alistair.) But these are unusual circumstances, given that a usurper sits as regent and a sizeable portion of Ferelden's nobility lays dead.

[ejoslin]

I actually wonder what kind of jerk Bryce was. Highever's alienage was thought to be worse than Denerim's, and Denerim had rapedaddy Vaughn running around in it. Or was there an Arl who would have been in charge of Highever as well?