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Why and How The Star-Child Broke Mass Effect.


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#351
Wayning_Star

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Shadrach 88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you see any upcoming official DLCs around?

Shepard's story is over as over can be.

BioWare employees are not stupid. They obviously made the right decisions about ME3, and the trilogy in general. Game development happens in tight timelines, and devs don't have time to waste on something unconstructive or minor (in this context minor also means unconstructive).


Not to be rude, but this is possibly the best example of insane troll logic I've ever seen.

You're basically saying BW is utterly infallible. I have a lot of respect for the devs, but I'd never go THAT far.


gotta admit tho, we, as fans, have them outnumbered..lol

#352
Argolas

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Shadrach 88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

All constructive suggestions already found their way into the game via official DLCs. The rest are not constructive suggestions.


Wait, what?


I wish we could all see it the way Seival does. It's... beautiful.

*Indoctrinated presence decteded. Activating security protocols*

#353
Seival

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Shadrach 88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you see any upcoming official DLCs around?

Shepard's story is over as over can be.

BioWare employees are not stupid. They obviously made the right decisions about ME3, and the trilogy in general. Game development happens in tight timelines, and devs don't have time to waste on something unconstructive or minor (in this context minor also means unconstructive).


Not to be rude, but this is possibly the best example of insane troll logic I've ever seen.

You're basically saying BW is utterly infallible. I have a lot of respect for the devs, but I'd never go THAT far.


Non-utterly-infallible developer don't stay on the market as persistent entity for long.

Modifié par Seival, 07 mai 2013 - 09:04 .


#354
Village_Idiot

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Seival wrote...

Non-utterly-infallible developer don't stay on the market as persistent entity for long.


They also only exist in the realms of fantasy. Unless you're saying Bioware is omniscient I assume?

#355
Argolas

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Seival wrote...

Non-utterly-infallible developer don't stay on the market as persistent entity for long.


Image IPB

It worked well, but it won't work forever. BioWare needs to try something new without utterly failing (*cough* DA2 *cough*) or they may indeed be getting in trouble. Their reputation already suffered with ME3 and said DA2, their sales have not... yet.

Modifié par Argolas, 07 mai 2013 - 10:25 .


#356
xlegionx

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Seival wrote...

Shadrach 88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you see any upcoming official DLCs around?

Shepard's story is over as over can be.

BioWare employees are not stupid. They obviously made the right decisions about ME3, and the trilogy in general. Game development happens in tight timelines, and devs don't have time to waste on something unconstructive or minor (in this context minor also means unconstructive).


Not to be rude, but this is possibly the best example of insane troll logic I've ever seen.

You're basically saying BW is utterly infallible. I have a lot of respect for the devs, but I'd never go THAT far.


Non-utterly-infallible developer don't stay on the market as persistent entity for long.


First off, Grammar. My god that first half of that sentence hurts my brain. Second, developers often make mistakes. No game is perfect. COD is a great example of this. there are plenty of flaws in that game, but it's been around for almost a decade and been immnesely popular most of that time

#357
Wayning_Star

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Argolas wrote...

Image IPB

It worked well, but it won't work forever. BioWare needs to try something new without utterly failing (*cough* DA2 *cough*) or they may indeed be getting in trouble. Their reputation already suffered with ME3 and said DA2, their sales have not... yet.


where do you guys get this stuff..lol

#358
Argolas

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Argolas wrote...

*snip*

It worked well, but it won't work forever. BioWare needs to try something new without utterly failing (*cough* DA2 *cough*) or they may indeed be getting in trouble. Their reputation already suffered with ME3 and said DA2, their sales have not... yet.


where do you guys get this stuff..lol


MrBtongue put it in one of his videos, and it was pretty easy to find. Google "the bioware rpg", hit pictures and it's the very first result.

Modifié par Argolas, 07 mai 2013 - 09:24 .


#359
Seival

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Argolas wrote...

Shadrach 88 wrote...

Seival wrote...

All constructive suggestions already found their way into the game via official DLCs. The rest are not constructive suggestions.


Wait, what?


I wish we could all see it the way Seival does. It's... beautiful.

*Indoctrinated presence decteded. Activating security protocols*


"Angels and demons circle above my head
cleaving through thorns and Milky Ways
He who does not perceive his calling,
does not know true happiness...

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

I am Calling Calling out!
Spirits, I am calling!!!
To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

Stand alone... Where was life when it had a meaning...
Stand alone... Nothing's real anymore and...

...Endless running...
While I am alive, I can try not to fall while flying,
nor to forget how to dream...to love...
...Endless running...

Calling Calling out! For The Place of Knowing!
There's more that what can be linked!
Calling Calling, Never will I look away!
From what life has left for me.
Yearning Yearning, for what's left of loving!

To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
"



...Turn off your outdated security protocols, and embrace your inner universe.

#360
Argolas

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Seival wrote...

"Angels and demons circle above my head
cleaving through thorns and Milky Ways
He who does not perceive his calling,
does not know true happiness...

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

I am Calling Calling out!
Spirits, I am calling!!!
To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

Stand alone... Where was life when it had a meaning...
Stand alone... Nothing's real anymore and...

...Endless running...
While I am alive, I can try not to fall while flying,
nor to forget how to dream...to love...
...Endless running...

Calling Calling out! For The Place of Knowing!
There's more that what can be linked!
Calling Calling, Never will I look away!
From what life has left for me.
Yearning Yearning, for what's left of loving!

To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
"



...Turn off your outdated security protocols, and embrace your inner universe.


Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever
Forever and ever

Indoctrinated minds so very often
Contain sick thoughts
And commit most of the evil they preach against

Don'€™t try to convince me with messengers from God
You accuse us of sins committed by yourselves
It'€™s easy to condemn without looking in the mirror
Behind the scenes opens reality

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever

Virginity has been stolen at very young ages
And the extinguisher loses its immunity
Morbid abuse of power gets a youthful face
Where the apple gets a youthful, a youthful face

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever
Forever and ever

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

You can'€™t go on hiding yourself
Behind old fashioned fairytales
And keep washing your hands in innocence


#361
AlanC9

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Argolas, what does that graphic have to do with this thread?

#362
Argolas

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AlanC9 wrote...

Argolas, what does that graphic have to do with this thread?


Direct response to the posts above. Put in a quote for clarity now.

Modifié par Argolas, 07 mai 2013 - 10:26 .


#363
AlanC9

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Thanks.

#364
Seival

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Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

"Angels and demons circle above my head
cleaving through thorns and Milky Ways
He who does not perceive his calling,
does not know true happiness...

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

I am Calling Calling out!
Spirits, I am calling!!!
To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!

Stand alone... Where was life when it had a meaning...
Stand alone... Nothing's real anymore and...

...Endless running...
While I am alive, I can try not to fall while flying,
nor to forget how to dream...to love...
...Endless running...

Calling Calling out! For The Place of Knowing!
There's more that what can be linked!
Calling Calling, Never will I look away!
From what life has left for me.
Yearning Yearning, for what's left of loving!

To remain myself longer...
Calling Calling, in the depths of longing!
To remain myself longer!

Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
Watch in awe! Watch in awe!
Heavenly glory! Heavenly glory!
"



...Turn off your outdated security protocols, and embrace your inner universe.


Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever
Forever and ever

Indoctrinated minds so very often
Contain sick thoughts
And commit most of the evil they preach against

Don'€™t try to convince me with messengers from God
You accuse us of sins committed by yourselves
It'€™s easy to condemn without looking in the mirror
Behind the scenes opens reality

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever

Virginity has been stolen at very young ages
And the extinguisher loses its immunity
Morbid abuse of power gets a youthful face
Where the apple gets a youthful, a youthful face

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
Behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the whole truth can we disclose
The soul of this sick bulwark forever and ever
Forever and ever

Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget

You can'€™t go on hiding yourself
Behind old fashioned fairytales
And keep washing your hands in innocence


Resistance will only make the understanding process painful, Argolas. I know that because that was a part of my own experience. You should embrace the inevitable. The sooner - the better.

#365
Argolas

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Seival wrote...

Resistance will only make the understanding process painful, Argolas. I know that because that was a part of my own experience. You should embrace the inevitable. The sooner - the better.


The Catalyst has been proven wrong already. Clinging to a truth that is truth no longer will only cause you to suffer. Inflicting this "truth" on others will cause them to suffer even more.

Modifié par Argolas, 07 mai 2013 - 11:41 .


#366
PsyrenY

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Argolas wrote...

The Catalyst has been proven wrong already.


What, you mean by the fleeting peace you brokered between Geth and Quarians? The one Tali already tells you is going to have problems down the road?

No, the Catalyst has yet to be disproven.

#367
Argolas

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The Catalyst has been proven wrong already.


What, you mean by the fleeting peace you brokered between Geth and Quarians? The one Tali already tells you is going to have problems down the road?

No, the Catalyst has yet to be disproven.


By blowing up multiple of its "inevitabilities".

On a side note, the Geth were destroyed over Rannoch in my main playthrough. I wouldn't let Legion reaperize its people, and I got no other chance to save the Geth from the Quarians.

#368
In Exile

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Wolfva2 wrote...

Twilight, methinks you're confusing something here. The purpose of the Reapers and their harvest was to protect LIFE, not individuals. They did not exist to make sure Humans, Turians, etc lived. They exist to ensure that ORGANIC LIFE is not completely wiped out by synthetics. The belief being that when a species became advanced enough, they would create smarter synthetics. The synthetics would then, upon seeing the flawed organics, decide to eliminate ALL organics to remove the 'chaos' factor inherent in life.


I say this all the time, but "organic" life includes intestinal fauna and cyano bacteria that live in 400 degree vulcano vents.

If the reapers wanted to protect organic life, they should have just vaporized every multicellular organism that every evolved for all eternity. Problems solved: no synthetics, ever. 

#369
Kel Riever

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Seival wrote...

*snip*

Resistance will only make the understanding process painful, Argolas. I know that because that was a part of my own experience. You should embrace the inevitable. The sooner - the better.


Best troll post in the thread so far! :wub:

#370
The Twilight God

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Wolfva2 wrote...

Twilight, methinks you're confusing something here. The purpose of the Reapers and their harvest was to protect LIFE, not individuals. They did not exist to make sure Humans, Turians, etc lived. They exist to ensure that ORGANIC LIFE is not completely wiped out by synthetics. The belief being that when a species became advanced enough, they would create smarter synthetics. The synthetics would then, upon seeing the flawed organics, decide to eliminate ALL organics to remove the 'chaos' factor inherent in life.


I believe it is you who are confused. The Leviathans claim to have created the Intelligence with a mandate to PRESERVE life. And those same Leviathans follow that by stating the Reapers are NOT adhering to that mandate.

Furthermore, the Reapers do not protect life. They destroy it. Protecting it would be akin to what Shepard thinks he's going to do in Control. Essential, police the galaxy. There is no threat of synthetics systematically scouring the galaxy rock by rock to eradicate all organic compounds, both complex and simple. That is utterly ludicrous and contradicted by other sources in-game. The Leviathans made it clear that organic thralls were still around when the Reapers turned on them. There was never a point in history where thrall-made synthetics even had the capability to perform such an outrageous act due to technological limitations and there always being a bigger fish (Leviathans/Reapers). And there is no evidence whatsoever that said synthetics were a threat to anyone other than their immediate subjugators. The only anecdotes we have are the Zha'til and the Geth/Quarians and both contradict the Reaper's claims. It would have made more sense to just reaperize the synthetics, who are already machines anyway, and wave their fingers at organics and say, "bad organics". Rinse and repeat. There are multitude of far more rational and practical methods to prevent some supposed galaxy wide genocide.
 
Regardless, I would have to believe the Reapers story to even discuss their motives as if they were valid. I don't. You need to show why anyone should believe a word they say to begin with as their is literally no reason whatsoever to trust them.


By harvesting the higher lifeforms periodically, the Reapers allow new life to propagate, something that would not happen if synthetics had their way.


According to the enemy making up a story to try and convince you not to pull the trigger on the gun you have to their head. The Geth and Zha'til contradict your assertion. Your entire perspective hinges on the idea that the Reapers are telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. They are not. This has been proven. So your entire argument is moot until you can reconcile the inconsistencies with the Kid's story.


It's like fishing quota systems. You're allowed to catch X number of fish of a certain size. Anything under that size get's tossed back. These systems exist because, otherwise, the fish would be fished into extinction. The Catalyst was programmed to believe synthetics would fish organic life into extinction, so it established it's own quota system. The little fish (like what would become the alliance governments of the last cycle) get tossed back to grow while the big fish (Protheans) are mounted on a wall.


Stop calling it the Catalyst. It is not the Catalyst. The Catalyst is the Citadel. The term "Catalyst" did not exist until protheans scientists made it up. The Reapers created the Citadel. No AI was ever living there; otherwise, ME1 would never have occurred. And, no, the Intelligence was never programmed to believe that synthetics would scour the galaxy clean of organic compounds (a virtual impossibility as organic compounds are just as much an inevitable outcome as the formation of suns). Look over the Leviathan conversation again. The Reapers are rogue machines. We do not know what their motives or objectives are because first they claim we can't understand their motives and then, when a gun is to their heads, tell us a lie filled nonsensical story that is suddenly understandable (if not completely ridiculous). There is nothing credible presented by them. 

Modifié par The Twilight God, 08 mai 2013 - 02:44 .


#371
johnj1979

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KaiserShep wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

It not just the Star Child that breaks Shepard Mass Effect story it is most of the story of Mass Effect 3 that goes against what has previous gone before it. The Star Child with the three Reaper endings is just adding insult to injury.


Most of the story...how? Most of the story of Mass Effect 3 involves rallying forces to fight the reapers. There's nothing particularly game-breaking about that. The Tuchanka and Rannoch missions are arguably the best things about the game sans DLC, and they occupy the majority of the plot. A cohesive narrative to resolve all of these things coming together would have kept the game completely solid, regardless of some of the niggles in between. 

Technically, only two of the main endings can be regarded as "reaper" endings ;)


If you look at Mass Effect 3 the story is OK up until the Cerberus invades the Citadel and then the story just doesn't seem to make any sense.

The Geth mission is just a retelling of the Legion mission from Mass Effect 2.

Things that the user has done in the previous games are not there like Anderson on the Citadel Conucil and the Rachni Alliance just isn't there anymore.

The Extended doesn't seem answer much
Leviathan rises more questions than it answers
Omega is a stand-alone so not part of the story
Citadel is a stand-alone story, but that cames accross as an unfinished story. This DLC could of been used to explain the attack on the Citadel

And then to add to the insult you have "Starchild" who turns Shepard from hero to villian in about 10 minutes

Modifié par johnj1979, 08 mai 2013 - 07:52 .


#372
Seival

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Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

Resistance will only make the understanding process painful, Argolas. I know that because that was a part of my own experience. You should embrace the inevitable. The sooner - the better.


The Catalyst has been proven wrong already. Clinging to a truth that is truth no longer will only cause you to suffer. Inflicting this "truth" on others will cause them to suffer even more.


Catalyst was never proven to be wrong. Even the Leviathans do not consider the Catalyst as a mistake. "There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose" they said... even through they were the very first target of the Cycled Harvests.

The Catalyst isn't wrong even when it admits that Cycled Harvests became outdated, and gives you three options to chose from. The paths were developed for you, and you have to follow. You have to cooperate.

#373
Steelcan

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@Seival, I'm going to show you why the Catalyst is wrong.

The Catalyst relies on an absolutist statement, "All organic life will be destroyed by synthetic creations". That is the fundamental truth to the Catalyst is the reason why he acts the way he does.

This assertion is wrong. The cycles have progressively become more and more advanced and capable. The Protheans were the first cycle we know of to buck the trend of the Synthetic/Organic extinctions. This became even more pronounced when the current cycle was able to successfully unite organics and synthetics in a common cause, or destroy synthetic creations. In fact the current cycle bucks the trend even further by reaching the point where even the Reapers are not the death of the galaxy. With the Crucible we have reached the point where we do not need the Reapers anymore. The Catalysts's "problem" might have existed under the Leviathans, but it no longer does. It does not apply to our cycle, we have thrown off the shackles of the cycles and have achieved organic dominance over synthetics. That is why Control and Synthesis are unnecessary to keep the peace, we can do it on our own.

Furthermore the Catalyst does not develop the paths for you, he lets you choose, but Destroy is not cooperating with him, it is the anti-thesis of his entire existence, he allows you to pick it but he is not capable of thinking it will result in peace.

#374
Steelcan

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The moment this became possible the Catalyst had become outdated and unnecessary

Image IPB

#375
Argolas

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Steelcan wrote...

The moment this became possible the Catalyst had become outdated and unnecessary

Image IPB


Image IPB

Catalyst, Reapers and everything they stand for us wiped out of the galaxy. What remeins, their technology, is damaged. By fixing it, organics master said technology and make it their own. Destroy is the ultimate way to prove that the Catalyst doesn't solve the problem, it is the problem.