506 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

Because Shepard has never been greviously injured inside a room the Catalyst has control over before?

Shepard was in the room with the lift before the Crucible was even attached. So the Starchild could have stopped that.  Why would Shepard have to be so badly injured for the Starchild to be able to do anything?

Also, why would the Starchild only have control over that small area of the Citadel? Wasn't that the same control panel (there's only 1 master control as far as I'm aware) that Shepard had to use in ME1? And wasn't it in the same room as where Shepard was fighting Saren/Sovereign? Seems like the Starchild had enough chances to me.

[KingZayd]

terdferguson123 wrote...

I absolutely HATE with every fiber of my being the term "Star-Child". It drives me crazy when people use it becuase they are using it in a way that shows they have no idea what is going on. It is the CATALYST, not the "star-child", it's a synthetic, an AI, it is not some magical being.

From what I saw, the people who told me  about the catalyst, and worked on the Crucible were completely unaware of an AI on the Citadel. They referred to the Citadel as the catalyst, not the AI that they didn't know existed on it. What part of Starchild indicates magic?

terdferguson123 wrote...

Lastly, the question of: "Why is the catalyst a human boy?" and to that I bring up another question, and one that Legion also brought up: Why does EDI take a characteristically similar "human" body as her physical form? Legion asks this question and even sais that it is inneficient. She does this because it is familiar to the crew of the ship, becuase she knows that it will alter the crews thoughts about her if she chooses this familiar form. The catalyst is no different, it knows that the form of a human boy is familiar to Shepard, and one that he will sympathize with, especially this particular boy.

EDI took that "humanoid" body because it was available and potentially useful. 

It's not the most familiar image to Shepard, but it's an effective one. It's the image that's been haunting his dreams. The appearance is clearly intended for manipulation.

[TheRealJayDee]

terdferguson123 wrote...

The catalyst is no different, it knows that the form of a human boy is familiar to Shepard, and one that he will sympathize with, especially this particular boy.

By choosing the appearance of that particular boy the Starchild is basically saying "oh, and btw, I have access to your thoughts and memories, Shepard. Yup, that's right - I'm in your head...". 




Wouldn't you agree that that's all kinds of problematic...?

[Wayning_Star]

the catalyst is just a tool of the Leviathan. They even agreed to being harvested, in search of the persistent loss of their thrall races to technology they created/stole from thralls. They are ultimate predators. Went into hiding to promote the catalyst game plan to find the 'solution' to their problem, not the MEU's problems. Apparently, their need for thralls out strips their self preservation instinct, if any. Risk trillions to gain their projected solution. But they're never removed completely, only hidden from view, manipulating. The catalyst is their tool, just like the MEU and the rest of space for that matter.

But then, what organic wouldn't do that if they could, be Apex Race?

[KaiserShep]

The Leviathan didn't approve of being harvested. Even the Catalyst says this. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 10 mai 2013 - 02:23 .

[terdferguson123]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The catalyst is no different, it knows that the form of a human boy is familiar to Shepard, and one that he will sympathize with, especially this particular boy.

By choosing the appearance of that particular boy the Starchild is basically saying "oh, and btw, I have access to your thoughts and memories, Shepard. Yup, that's right - I'm in your head...". 




Wouldn't you agree that that's all kinds of problematic...?

Yeah, I understand that, that is why I stated that "it was one he would sympathize with". Because the catalyst is obviously attempting to change Shepard's emotions about it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Anything new added to the series is bad, We get it already. Seesh.

But I really do disagree with your points quite a bit.

1. None of the choices had sacrifice? Everything but ME3 had you getting everything you eanted? Id that why I can save both ashley and kaidan? Is that why I can save the council without sacrificng thousands of lives? Is thsy why I can keep samara from killing mornith without killing her? Is that ehy the collector base is kept and not given over to cerberus? Is that why I.can choose to let the heretic geth come back to legions side on their own rsther than brainwashing or destroying them?

2. The enigmatic reapers were not what made them good, it was always uncovering the information.about them and seeing how powerful they were that made them have their intimidation. Maybe you would be alright with their motives or origins not being explained, but I call that bwing too lazy to come up with a reason your villian is acting like a villian. That to me is wordt writing than the catalyst, no matter who it is who writes it. Doing it for fun, doing it because they can, all those cheap motivations are still explainable motivations, but never explaining it makes them just doing this for da lulz, and that just plain sucks.

[The Night Mammoth]

terdferguson123 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The catalyst is no different, it knows that the form of a human boy is familiar to Shepard, and one that he will sympathize with, especially this particular boy.

By choosing the appearance of that particular boy the Starchild is basically saying "oh, and btw, I have access to your thoughts and memories, Shepard. Yup, that's right - I'm in your head...". 




Wouldn't you agree that that's all kinds of problematic...?

Yeah, I understand that, that is why I stated that "it was one he would sympathize with". Because the catalyst is obviously attempting to change Shepard's emotions about it.

Why would taking the form of the child invoke sympathy?

[KaiserShep]

Too bad it's never addressed. I'd be thinking, "Why is he still wearing a hoodie sweater?"

[terdferguson123]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The catalyst is no different, it knows that the form of a human boy is familiar to Shepard, and one that he will sympathize with, especially this particular boy.

By choosing the appearance of that particular boy the Starchild is basically saying "oh, and btw, I have access to your thoughts and memories, Shepard. Yup, that's right - I'm in your head...". 




Wouldn't you agree that that's all kinds of problematic...?

Yeah, I understand that, that is why I stated that "it was one he would sympathize with". Because the catalyst is obviously attempting to change Shepard's emotions about it.

Why would taking the form of the child invoke sympathy?

It isn't the fact that he is a child that does it, it's the fact that this particular child is one that Shepard watch die with his own eyes, and then haunted his dreams for the rest of the game because he was unable to save him.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 10 mai 2013 - 02:49 .

[The Night Mammoth]

terdferguson123 wrote...

It isn't the fact that he is a child that does it, it's the fact that this particular child is one that Shepard watch die with his own eyes, and then haunted his dreams for the rest of the game because he was unable to save him.

Right, but why would that invoke sympathy, and not, say, distrust? This kid has basically come to symbolise all the people Shepard cannot save, and the Catalyst is responsible for all their merciless deaths, the child included. There's frankly nothing sympathetic in my mind about this obvious attempt at manipulation. 

[SpamBot2000]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why would taking the form of the child invoke sympathy?

Because it says that in the textbook Mac Walters had to read when he was studying psychological manipulation. At Lakehead University, Thunder Bay, Ontario, in case you were wondering.

[Asari]

Brainstorming :3

I would like to know if there is any possible way that they could rewrite the ending, still have to catalyst and make it good.

Like..you have to go somewhere, lets say inside Harbinger and get something for the Crucible to work and when you get it after fighting Harbingers voice, husks, etc.. Voila! A wild Starchild appears! Talks about everything you need to know, but hes still more of a reaper.. still trying to tell Shepard that he cant fight the inevitable, etc.

After that you leave to arm the Crucible. I think the Earthpart would be left out.
But maybe that would've been better than to introdouch(harrharr) him the last 5 minutes.

[dreamgazer]

The Catalyst's form wasn't about invoking personal sympathy for the child. It was about forcing Shepard to think about a tangible avatar that represents all the innocents who have already died, faceless ones of all types, and charting a course for the future for those that remain.

Manipulation is still manipulation, but it's not quite the sappy low-blow it's often made out to be.

[SpamBot2000]

dreamgazer wrote...

Manipulation is still manipulation, but it's not quite the sappy low-blow it's often made out to be.

Yes it is.

[dreamgazer]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Manipulation is still manipulation, but it's not quite the sappy low-blow it's often made out to be.

Yes it is.

To each his own. Considering the number of misguided "I SAID FEEL, DAMMIT!" posts I've seen over the past year, I stand by the bolded.

[AlanC9]

The Night Mammoth wrote...


Right, but why would that invoke sympathy, and not, say, distrust? This kid has basically come to symbolise all the people Shepard cannot save, and the Catalyst is responsible for all their merciless deaths, the child included. There's frankly nothing sympathetic in my mind about this obvious attempt at manipulation. 

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

The meta-explanation is that the writers don't either.

[PsyrenY]

AlanC9 wrote...

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

I was instantly reminded of GLaDOS trying to tempt Chell to her doom with offers of cake 

[Argolas]

AlanC9 wrote...

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

Oh great, I'm entrusting the fate of organic life to an A.I. that doesn't even understand it.

[PsyrenY]

Argolas wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

Oh great, I'm entrusting the fate of organic life to an A.I. that doesn't even understand it.

Actually, it's the other way around - he's entrusting their fate to you.

[Wayning_Star]

the Leviathan are organic, do we know how they think? Really?

[Wayning_Star]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Argolas wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

Oh great, I'm entrusting the fate of organic life to an A.I. that doesn't even understand it.

Actually, it's the other way around - he's entrusting their fate to you.

I look at it as a joint venture..

[Argolas]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Argolas wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The in-universe explanation is pretty easy; the Catalyst doesn't actually understand how an organic thinks.

Oh great, I'm entrusting the fate of organic life to an A.I. that doesn't even understand it.

Actually, it's the other way around - he's entrusting their fate to you.

Which of both knows what exactly Synthesis does again?

[PsyrenY]

Argolas wrote...

Which of both knows what exactly Synthesis does again?

He knows because the Crucible told him. It's not his invention.

[Wayning_Star]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Which of both knows what exactly Synthesis does again?

He knows because the Crucible told him. It's not his invention.

I'm of the opinion that it's Shepard mind that holds the keys to the choices menu.. Unless there is another out there that bioware refuses to expose as it's author..

The only thing the crucible could be is an overdrive unit and power supply for the 'effect' of the blast. Our esteemed and non existent crucible engineers are hiding out as well..

(makes me take a long hard look at hidden and reclusive, supposed non apex race with the 'knowledge' of it all...)