506 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

For some Shepards, it was out of character enough to even stop for a random child.

My Shepard stopped. The kid ran off though. He wasn't going to go out of his way for the kid, and indeed I think the forced emotion over the kid was extreme. 

Out of sight out of mind. He's got more important things to worry about.

He has to escape. If civilians have to die so that he can escape to prepare for a counter-attack, then so be it.

I've never liked the whole "hero" thing.

This is the thing that keeps bothering me. It's not like Shepard didn't try to help the kid and he died. Shepard stopped, told the kid "Come with me if you want to live" pretty much, and the dork ran off!

It's not about being a hero.
It's not about the losses inevitable in war.

It's about the stupid kid running off when I offered help and then he died for being stupid. One less problem for the gene pool when this war is over.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

For some Shepards, it was out of character enough to even stop for a random child.

My Shepard stopped. The kid ran off though. He wasn't going to go out of his way for the kid, and indeed I think the forced emotion over the kid was extreme. 

Out of sight out of mind. He's got more important things to worry about.

He has to escape. If civilians have to die so that he can escape to prepare for a counter-attack, then so be it.

I've never liked the whole "hero" thing.

This is the thing that keeps bothering me. It's not like Shepard didn't try to help the kid and he died. Shepard stopped, told the kid "Come with me if you want to live" pretty much, and the dork ran off!

It's not about being a hero.
It's not about the losses inevitable in war.

It's about the stupid kid running off when I offered help and then he died for being stupid. One less problem for the gene pool when this war is over.

I personally question why a child of that kids age would say "you can't help me."

No child would ever say that.

I think they should have had something where Shepard tries to help the kid, but then an explosion occurs or a husk attacks and Shepard tells the kid to run while he fights them off.

Much better.

[David7204]

That actually sounds like a really good idea.

[Ticonderoga117]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I personally question why a child of that kids age would say "you can't help me."

No child would ever say that.

I think they should have had something where Shepard tries to help the kid, but then an explosion occurs or a husk attacks and Shepard tells the kid to run while he fights them off.

Much better.

Agreed on both. Extending on the point of no kid would say that, I'm going to say that's because the writers wanted to reinforce the tone of overly serious and the emotional "breakdown" of Shepard. Which is, in my opinion, horribly executed and relies too much on the player being sold on the idea while lacking a connection.

[David7204]

When the time machine is up and running, consider it done.

[Argolas]

The kid scene is just weird. What it says seems unlike a kid, the whole situation seems to make no sense (why would it have run to the core engineering facility on top of a building?) Why did it vanish into thin air without a glimpse or sound of when it left? How did it survive the explosion without even a scratch? (I know both is possible but it just seems weird).

Modifié par Argolas, 06 mai 2013 - 08:43 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

That actually sounds like a really good idea.

Fits with the guilt thing too (if you want your Shepard to feel guilt). He tells the kid to run, then the kid gets killed. Shepard gets upset for telling the kid to flee.

Or Shepard can justify that he did everything he could to help the kid, and that it was a wise decision to tell the kid to run, as Shepard couldn't protect the kid and kill the husks at the same time. That's how my Shepard would react.

[David7204]

So say the dreams are scrapped. And the Reaper leader taking the form of the kid is scrapped.

I'd prefer to not have people whining about 'wasted potential' and all that. As it is, there's only one mention of the kid, and that's in a conversation with Garrus. Is that enough? Or would players complain that there should be more conversation referencing it?

Modifié par David7204, 06 mai 2013 - 08:50 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I think one nightmare with the kid is fine, but have it slowly evolve to having other characters squadmates. My Shepard might have Kaidan pissed off for leaving him to die. He's going to see Ashley who hates him because he killed her. He might see a disappointed Mordin who he nearly killed to stop the genophage cure. I think there should be an added element of Reaper symbolism.

He's not indoctrinated, but the Reapers are in his brain, at the back of his consciousness, screwing with him in his dreams.

[Argolas]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I personally question why a child of that kids age would say "you can't help me."

No child would ever say that.

I think they should have had something where Shepard tries to help the kid, but then an explosion occurs or a husk attacks and Shepard tells the kid to run while he fights them off.

Much better.

You just reminded me of another game I played a few years ago. A monster had completely destroyed a village and left a massacre, the place is now crawling with undead, but there is one surviving child that hides in a crate. She refuses to come out of of fear (you are a vampire who was turned against his will), but if you don't ignore her and pick the right dialogue options she believes that you mean no harm and comes out. A companion argues that you should leave the girl behind because your quest is more important. You can agree or insist in taking her with you, but either way she becomes afraid of you, runs out of the building and is killed by a fiend outside.

Did a pretty good job on making one feel guilty about the death of a random child I think.

Modifié par Argolas, 06 mai 2013 - 08:57 .

[SlowMerc]

My biggest problems with the star-child is that we got no warning that there was any Reaper Mastermind AI buried in the Citadel. We only find out about it when he saves us from dying and then solves the reaper problem for us.

One other problem is why he didn't help Sovereign in ME1.

It would have been much better story-telling if we had learned from the Protean VI that there was an ancient deactivated AI buried inside the Citadel that could perhaps be used to control/hack the reapers. Maybe as a backup plan if the crucible failed to do it's thing, or maybe we would ask for help from the geth in creating a computer virus that would turn the ancient AI to our side. We'd plug that in just after the encounter with TiM.

[Seival]

matchboxmatt wrote...

No one is ever going to say / has ever said that the star child was a good idea.

Are you sure about that?

Really?

Well, this picture strongly disagrees with you:



...as well as me, and who knows how many more people.

[Wayning_Star]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think one nightmare with the kid is fine, but have it slowly evolve to having other characters squadmates. My Shepard might have Kaidan pissed off for leaving him to die. He's going to see Ashley who hates him because he killed her. He might see a disappointed Mordin who he nearly killed to stop the genophage cure. I think there should be an added element of Reaper symbolism.

He's not indoctrinated, but the Reapers are in his brain, at the back of his consciousness, screwing with him in his dreams.

this stuff I have to link to the Leviathan. Communication?


The cypher being a walkie talkie booster?

anyway, I noticed the Kid playing on the yard down below as Shepard noticed as well in the story. Maybe that's where the 'link' to the child image comes from. The kid didn't seem to trust adults much though, for some reason, resisted Sheps help in the air duct. Had to know the way around to get in there anyway. Maybe just a street urchin? The story doesn't evolve the child at all, we don't even know why he said "You cannot help me." to Shepard. Why would a kid say that? As you say, the reapership communication/or Catalyst really could be more pronounced at that point, as the 'kid' isn't even up there in the duct at all, or running around dodging reaperships?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Seival wrote...

matchboxmatt wrote...

No one is ever going to say / has ever said that the star child was a good idea.

Are you sure about that?

Really?

Well, this picture strongly disagrees with you:



...as well as me, and who knows how many more people.

As usual, you're only counting people who's opinions are in line with yours. And making up facts and information to support your opinions.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your interpretation of the game isn't a real fan, right?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 06 mai 2013 - 09:07 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wayning_Star wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think one nightmare with the kid is fine, but have it slowly evolve to having other characters squadmates. My Shepard might have Kaidan pissed off for leaving him to die. He's going to see Ashley who hates him because he killed her. He might see a disappointed Mordin who he nearly killed to stop the genophage cure. I think there should be an added element of Reaper symbolism.

He's not indoctrinated, but the Reapers are in his brain, at the back of his consciousness, screwing with him in his dreams.

this stuff I have to link to the Leviathan. Communication?


The cypher being a walkie talkie booster?

anyway, I noticed the Kid playing on the yard down below as Shepard noticed as well in the story. Maybe that's where the 'link' to the child image comes from. The kid didn't seem to trust adults much though, for some reason, resisted Sheps help in the air duct. Had to know the way around to get in there anyway. Maybe just a street urchin? The story doesn't evolve the child at all, we don't even know why he said "You cannot help me." to Shepard. Why would a kid say that? As you say, the reapership communication/or Catalyst really could be more pronounced at that point, as the 'kid' isn't even up there in the duct at all, or running around dodging reaperships?

No thanks, I don't subscribe to your religion. Not a fan of IT. It was just bad writing.

[Wayning_Star]

Seival wrote...

matchboxmatt wrote...

No one is ever going to say / has ever said that the star child was a good idea.

Are you sure about that?

Really?

Well, this picture strongly disagrees with you:



...as well as me, and who knows how many more people.

The kid was a kind of an about face, no wonder the red E is so popular on the BSN, or suggested as such?


To me it/he was NO surprise, even the twist at the end seemed normal for sci fi. Didn't bother me that the military equation was lost for words. Year later and folks still wonder what the reasoning was for the star gazer scene...

[Seival]

tickle267 wrote...

Seival wrote...

matchboxmatt wrote...

No one is ever going to say / has ever said that the star child was a good idea.

...as well as me, and who knows how many more people.

your opinion generally appears to be in the minority (though admittedly that's only for the BSN)

nevertheless i'm happy you're here seival, this thread will undoubtedly become far more entertaining now

All I see is the same few people arguing with me, and attacking me because of my point of view. This bunch of haters can't represent the entire community. And you can't ask all 3 million of people, who played the game, what do they think about the ending.

Considering how easily BioWare refused to change the ending concept, people like me are not in minority.

Think about that.
There is vocal minority and silent majority.
Deal with it.

[Wayning_Star]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think one nightmare with the kid is fine, but have it slowly evolve to having other characters squadmates. My Shepard might have Kaidan pissed off for leaving him to die. He's going to see Ashley who hates him because he killed her. He might see a disappointed Mordin who he nearly killed to stop the genophage cure. I think there should be an added element of Reaper symbolism.

He's not indoctrinated, but the Reapers are in his brain, at the back of his consciousness, screwing with him in his dreams.

this stuff I have to link to the Leviathan. Communication?


The cypher being a walkie talkie booster?

anyway, I noticed the Kid playing on the yard down below as Shepard noticed as well in the story. Maybe that's where the 'link' to the child image comes from. The kid didn't seem to trust adults much though, for some reason, resisted Sheps help in the air duct. Had to know the way around to get in there anyway. Maybe just a street urchin? The story doesn't evolve the child at all, we don't even know why he said "You cannot help me." to Shepard. Why would a kid say that? As you say, the reapership communication/or Catalyst really could be more pronounced at that point, as the 'kid' isn't even up there in the duct at all, or running around dodging reaperships?

No thanks, I don't subscribe to your religion. Not a fan of IT. It was just bad writing.

lol, I am the IT antithesis on the BSN. Just because the kid isn't up there running around, doesn't mean Shep is indoctrinated. The idea of indoctrination is over stated in the story, I think for a reason, to throw players off. I always thought this, even argued with IT'ers about it. I suggested that this was why the theory got steam, as well as the scene when Shep is wounded on the ground, then in the beam then up there with the catalyst and other 'ghosts'. This is what caused for the idea of Shepard being in a dream, or alternate reality. But Shep wasn't really, only communicating with the catalyst.

I suggest that possibly that is what is going on with the kid in the start of ME3?

[Mcfly616]

SlowMerc wrote...

My biggest problems with the star-child is that we got no warning that there was any Reaper Mastermind AI buried in the Citadel. We only find out about it when he saves us from dying and then solves the reaper problem for us.

One other problem is why he didn't help Sovereign in ME1.

first of all, why would you be warned about something that nobody has ever known about? It's the Reapers best kept secret, the only beings aware of it's existence are the Leviathan's....oh right, nobody really knows they exist either.

Second of all, the Prothean VI foreshadows it on Thessia. He literally tells you that Reapers are servants of the pattern, "they are not it's master".


And about Sovereign.....the Catalyst needed Sovereigns help, not the other way around. The Catalyst is not physically capable of doing anything, hence the use of its tools to perform physical tasks (Reapers)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 06 mai 2013 - 09:19 .

[dreamgazer]

You're all in the minority, dear friends.

The "majority" no longer gives a flying fig, and that counts both casual players and varying degrees of loyal / invested fans.