31 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I've been pondering this, somewhat lamenting that it's the only questline where I can't find a way to say that Hawke isn't incompetent, and it's made me wonder: why even play it? It doesn't add much new to the story, it makes Hawke look stupid, there's no good reason for embarking on the quest to begin with (unless, maybe, you play it in Act 1), and it barely even has any good loot. I do wonder what impact it might have on DA3, but currently, I just don't see much reason to play it without knowing that.

[twilekaoi]

Xilizhra wrote...
what impact it might have on DA3

That's a good reason enough for me... It's been implied that

Spoiler

Talis will appear again some time down the line.

Assassin is great because it gives us a first glimpse of Orlesian character and lore; a nice change of pace from Kirkwall and its underground dwellings. Not to mention there's a lot of one liners and companion banter-- for me, it wasn't a dull experience.

The dungeon puzzles were pretty entertaining if you're the sort who plays without looking up tips online. I don't think puzzles of that caliber were even touched upon in the original campaign.

It's a nice change of pace in terms of gameplay and lore. I could care less for Hawke's loot (had a fully upgraded Hawke key), though it did offer exclusive companion weapons and quests depending on who you bring.

I'm not sure where you're going with Hawke being incompetent; he/she was lied to, to begin with. The Orlesian party was just an excuse for tongue in cheek comedy banter, poking fun at the Orlesian nobles. At least that's how it felt to me.

Modifié par twilekaoi, 06 mai 2013 - 03:47 .

[Xilizhra]

To clarify, I've played MotA before, I just don't know whether I should on my canon playthrough. And the incompetence bit is in not trying to retrieve Tallis' list.

[Sir George Parr]

It certainly does nothing to further Hawke's story, which takes a back seat for this dlc. It also further exacerbates one of the problems with the vanilla game,which is how powerless the PC is  influencing events. As you can't stop Tallis at the end or get the list off her preferable lifeless corpse. As this character is coddled by Bioware, so it does feel like a vanity project for Felica Day.But its plus points are its a welcome change of scenery from Kirkwall.
Its potential impact on DA3 is that Tallis will return and i will have to endure more of Felica Days inane yammering.

Modifié par XM-417, 07 mai 2013 - 06:49 .

[twilekaoi]

I think the important thing to take away from this is that not all Qunari are the same. Tallis showed a sensible side (though I say that loosely) to the Qunari rather than the brutal barbarism style of the Arishok. It's definitely static though, she leaves with the list either way. If there's any problems with the DLC, it's that.

Though from what I gather from the vibe in this thread and other forums on the internet; it's a bit unfair to hate Tallis just because she's modeled and voiced by Felicia Day. I could care less who Felicia is (never seen her work), but from my experience in MotA I thought she did a good job voicing the characters emotions.

And regarding Hawkes incompetence-- well... Hawkes always been like that. Carvers/Bethany death, Leandra death, "O" letter, sibling Deep Roads, Isabela and the Kosland tome,

*LEGACY DLC SPOILER*



Corypheus reborn in Janeka/Larius, etc.

Modifié par twilekaoi, 06 mai 2013 - 06:12 .

[thats1evildude]

I thought the equipment was pretty decent, at least from a warrior's perspective. Admittedly, rogues are a bit better off.

That said, I'd play it just for the chance to boot Duke Prosper off a cliff. That guy's a jerk.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 mai 2013 - 07:03 .

[twilekaoi]

^ You gotta admit his body movements in the beginning are pretty exaggerated to the point of adorableness. Lots of hands on hips and leaning forward going around in Orlais it seems.

[thats1evildude]

He's got kind of a rooster thing going there.

[Sir George Parr]

twilekaoi wrote...

I think the important thing to take away from this is that not all Qunari are the same. Tallis showed a sensible side (though I say that loosely) to the Qunari rather than the brutal barbarism style of the Arishok. It's definitely static though, she leaves with the list either way. If there's any problems with the DLC, it's that.

Though from what I gather from the vibe in this thread and other forums on the internet; it's a bit unfair to hate Tallis just because she's modeled and voiced by Felicia Day. I could care less who Felicia is (never seen her work), but from my experience in MotA I thought she did a good job voicing the characters emotions.

And regarding Hawkes incompetence-- well... Hawkes always been like that. Carvers/Bethany death, Leandra death, "O" letter, sibling Deep Roads, Isabela and the Kosland tome,

*LEGACY DLC SPOILER*



Corypheus reborn in Janeka/Larius, etc.

With regards to the 'O' letter, on a first playthrough you know as much as Hawke does so its not clear who 'O' actually is. Also you are not allowed to investigate this letter as the story and plot don't allow it. So an event that could influence Hawke's choice as to who you side with goes nowhere. You don't get to confront 'O' iirc over their connection to Hawke's mothers death. The other points on Hawke's perceived incompetence are down to the story and plot as Hawke is handcuffed from influencing any of those events or at least according to Varric. So i see it more as failings in the story and plot and not the fault of the PC, who is sadly just along for the ride instead of driving the story.
 

Modifié par XM-417, 06 mai 2013 - 09:05 .

[thats1evildude]

Exactly how would you go about investigating said letter? Start interrogating everyone in Kirkwall whose first name starts with 'O'? What if it was a reference to a nickname or code name?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 mai 2013 - 09:15 .

[twilekaoi]

XM-417 wrote...
With regards to the 'O' letter, on a first playthrough you know as much as Hawke does so its not clear who 'O' actually is. Also you are not allowed to investigate this letter as the story and plot don't allow it. So an event that could influence Hawke's choice as to who you side with goes nowhere. You don't get to confront 'O' iirc over their connection to Hawke's mothers death. The other points on Hawke's perceived incompetence are down to the story and plot as Hawke is handcuffed from influencing any of those events or at least according to Varric. So i see it more as failings in the story and plot and not the fault of the PC, who is sadly just along for the ride instead of driving the story.
 

Thanks for clarifying-- I wasn't sure how exactly you considered Hawke to be powerless in certain events... but yeah, on that we can definitely agree. You're talking about making a difference with an actual choice via dialogue wheel. I was referring to Hawke being more sensible to certain plot elements that aren't even offered as a possible path; investigating Orsino's letter, Hawke choosing to go south despite Ostagar being there (from which Carver had just returned), to name a few.

While we're on the subject of Quentin, really Hawke, really? I mean it took Hawke three years to realize there is a hidden door, despite my 'forceful' dialogue option of "This killer won't get away" to Emeric? Emeric and Aveline are also just as useless since they never followed up and investigated the Darktown area from where the bag of bones came. All that mess in Act 2 could have been prevented, but I guess having a sensible attitude makes for boring story plots...

thats1evildude wrote...

Exactly how would you go about
investigating said letter? Start interrogating everyone in Kirkwall
whose first name starts with 'O'? What if it was a reference to a
nickname or code name?

The search would've been narrowed down pretty easily because the name of the note is "A Letter from the Circle". If the Circle is anything like Fereldens', not every mage can just walk out of the gallows or is able to take items out  without proper procedure. And Kirkwalls is supposedly more brutal.

Modifié par twilekaoi, 07 mai 2013 - 02:10 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

If you're looking for a realistic reason for your particular Hawke to do MotA, it'll have to depend on your Hawke's motivations, and three things:

How much s/he trusts Varric (since Varric's source pointed you to Tallis, and Varric trusts his source)
How much s/he trusts Tallis on the whole 'I'm stealing something back that was stolen from me!' angle
How much s/he feels s/he owes Tallis, considering she did just help you fight an ambush that had nothing to do with her.

My 'good' Hawke knew Tallis was holding back the full truth, but figured Tallis had taken out half a dozen Crows. She could tag along until she learned more, then leave if she didn't like the answers she got.

My snark Hawke liked stealing stuff. This was a quest to steal stuff. He didn't care who it belonged to. And if it was sparkly, it could belong to him!

My 'angry' Hawke also figured Tallis was up to something, but figured if she didn't like the payoff she could blow the elf up. Not that that panned out, but that's what you get when you don't metagame.

But a Hawke who doesn't trust Tallis despite Varric's source, doesn't feel they owe Tallis anything, isn't curious about the qunari symbols on her armour, and is unmoved by her promises of reward? Just ignore the quest. Some people don't do Fenris' first quest because they think they'll be helping a lyrium smuggler and think it's wrong!

[caradoc2000]

A big problem for me is that, even if at the end of the tunnels you ditch Tallis, you still end up helping her.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Inadvertently helping, but yes. I didn't like that either.

Circumventing the PC's choice, and what's presented as a pivotal point, can come across as rather insulting to the player. :/ It'd be like refusing Morrigan's OGB deal then finding out she'd managed to do it behind your back anyway.

[lil yonce]

Its a chance to schmooze up to Orlesian Nobles, maybe make some powerful friends once you're Champion, and find out what's going on in Orlais if your Hawke is concerned about international politics. Talis escapes with the list but I don't consider it a wasted trip. If I didn't go at all I would've known less than before about the Qunari-Orlais situation.

[Lazy Jer]

You could skip it, but Tallis has your nose and if you don't she won't give it back to you.

[Ferretinabun]

Gameplay-wise, MotA is a welcome addition. New scenery, clever puzzles, interesting new angle on the Qunari, lots of self-referential humour... It's really quite fun.

But story-wose, I totally understand where the OP is coming from. I have a really tough time trying to justify why Hawke would just swan off across the country for what is proposed as a dangerous and precarious jewel heist just on the suggestion of a total stranger - especially if you're planning on taking the upstanding Captain of Kirkwall's Guard, which is recommended. The only time that might sound remotely attractive is in Act 1 when your primary goal is cash, but here you are a peasant and thus unlikely to recieve an invitation to such an event anyway.

Beyond that, the puzzles are very hard to rationalise. I mean, who the Hell would actually build such traps for their treasure, never mind a prison with the release levers on the inside if the trapped parties can just work out the combination?

The Orlesian characters are all cardboard characatures which jars in a game where other characters are so well written (I'm not Arlessa Isolde's biggest fan or anything, but her cameo in this was particularly obnoxious), and Tallis' story throughout is completely railroaded, which means that even if she does show up in DA3, it can easily assume that she simply completed her task without your help. I doubt very much there will be any negative consequences at all for not completeing what is, after all, DLC content.

I know I might sound like a hater, so again, from a gameplay perspective the DLC is a lot of fun and a refreshing change of pace. But if you're after a story being as immersive and believable as possible, then no, MotA is much better skipped.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Gameplay-wise, MotA is a welcome addition. New scenery, clever puzzles, interesting new angle on the Qunari, lots of self-referential humour... It's really quite fun.

But story-wose, I totally understand where the OP is coming from. I have a really tough time trying to justify why Hawke would just swan off across the country for what is proposed as a dangerous and precarious jewel heist just on the suggestion of a total stranger - especially if you're planning on taking the upstanding Captain of Kirkwall's Guard, which is recommended. The only time that might sound remotely attractive is in Act 1 when your primary goal is cash, but here you are a peasant and thus unlikely to recieve an invitation to such an event anyway.

Beyond that, the puzzles are very hard to rationalise. I mean, who the Hell would actually build such traps for their treasure, never mind a prison with the release levers on the inside if the trapped parties can just work out the combination?

The Orlesian characters are all cardboard characatures which jars in a game where other characters are so well written (I'm not Arlessa Isolde's biggest fan or anything, but her cameo in this was particularly obnoxious), and Tallis' story throughout is completely railroaded, which means that even if she does show up in DA3, it can easily assume that she simply completed her task without your help. I doubt very much there will be any negative consequences at all for not completeing what is, after all, DLC content.

I know I might sound like a hater, so again, from a gameplay perspective the DLC is a lot of fun and a refreshing change of pace. But if you're after a story being as immersive and believable as possible, then no, MotA is much better skipped.

I agree with this mostly. It was just refreshing to have a little bit of a tougher encounter than vanilla DA2. I disagree about the puzzles though, very childish and sloppy ( mixing colors lol ). The only one that gave for any kind of real pause was the floor picture and even then there was a clear pattern ( after 30 mins of diddling ).

I wanted to off the qunari elf, but I didn't my Hawke heirs to diplomacy generally. She sounded like a Marxist. It was cool killing the little bunny foo foo character, can't remember his name he condescendingly refers to you as a turnip.

Overall, this DLC was not worth it. What's worse is that all the loot sucked. Legacy atleast offered featured better items, plus the eHawke's Key glitch was pretty great. I still ran that staff levels 25-30+

So anybody reading this deciding weather or not it's worth it...NO! Ugly environments, bad acting, a few funny moments and a stupid stealth sequence.

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

it's the only questline where I can't find a way to say that Hawke isn't incompetent

I can.

My Hawke respects and admires the Qun and likes robbing the rich. That is why she helps and keeps helping Tallis.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 27 mai 2013 - 01:51 .

[Dabrikishaw]

Any reason you can think of, really. It's an optional DLC mission. If you can't conceive of a good reason for your Hawke to participate, then don't. It's as simple as that.

[Faust1979]

Talis voice acting is terrible I deleted it this piece of DLC and never really cared to play it again

[Hazegurl]

"Cause I got your nose."

I hated Tallis. I only flirted with her to get Fenris jealous and I always ditch her at the caves. Too bad I couldn't ditch her and stay on vacation in Orlais exploring before returning to stuffy Kirkwall.

[Faust1979]

Hazegurl wrote...

"Cause I got your nose."

I hated Tallis. I only flirted with her to get Fenris jealous and I always ditch her at the caves. Too bad I couldn't ditch her and stay on vacation in Orlais exploring before returning to stuffy Kirkwall.

I ditched her to the first chance I got, all the traps and the puzzles you wade through start to wear thin and I was getting tired of the whole thing