463 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

golak wrote...

sickpixie wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

No. DA3 will not be rushed.

Arrgh! My pessimism, it flees!

Take these words with a grain of salt.

HAH! PR FTW!

Mr. Priestly defeats himself. Rebuilding trust with fans is going to be difficult after lying to them even once. But here's hoping he can actually do it.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 08 mai 2013 - 09:00 .

[Sejborg]

Cameron Lee wrote...

DA3 won’t be rushed out, we won’t ship it until we’re proud of what we’ll be giving you.

Similar stuff was said about DA2. I seem to remember a dev saying that you simply had became better at making games, and that your past games spoke for them selves.

And then huge parts of the game was only preorder - demanding us to preorder and trust you. A trust you broke. And now you ask to be trusted again? Sure... Why not? WHY NOT?!?

[Sylvius the Mad]

MerinTB wrote...

A low bar does make clearing it something of a non-event, no?

We hold BioWare to a high standard.  I'd take that as a sign of our confidence in BioWare, not our skepticism.  If we doubted their competence, why would we ask for excellence?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 mai 2013 - 09:42 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Similar stuff was said about DA2. I seem to remember a dev saying that
you simply had became better at making games, and that your past games
spoke for them selves.

And then huge parts of the game was only
preorder - demanding us to preorder and trust you. A trust you broke.
And now you ask to be trusted again? Sure... Why not? WHY NOT?!?

He's not asking to be trusted again. He's answering the question.

Feel free to not trust us.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 08 mai 2013 - 09:43 .

[Allan Schumacher]

scyphozoa wrote...

In regards to the thread title about EA getting hit hard financially, I think it is important to mention that following EA's announcement of SWTOR's recent success, EA's stock jumped 15%. 

SWTOR helped, but it's more just the general response to the quarterly report that was released yesterday.  SWTOR is trending better, but the company made (minimally) more profit in FY13 than they did in FY12, which I think may have surprised some people as well.

[LolaLei]

Sejborg wrote...

Cameron Lee wrote...

DA3 won’t be rushed out, we won’t ship it until we’re proud of what we’ll be giving you.

Similar stuff was said about DA2. I seem to remember a dev saying that you simply had became better at making games, and that your past games spoke for them selves.

And then huge parts of the game was only preorder - demanding us to preorder and trust you. A trust you broke. And now you ask to be trusted again? Sure... Why not? WHY NOT?!?

Or, y'know, you could wait and see before freaking out.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

In regards to the thread title about EA getting hit hard financially, I think it is important to mention that following EA's announcement of SWTOR's recent success, EA's stock jumped 15%. 

SWTOR helped, but it's more just the general response to the quarterly report that was released yesterday.  SWTOR is trending better, but the company made (minimally) more profit in FY13 than they did in FY12, which I think may have surprised some people as well.

Oh, that was just me buying the Citadel DLC. Sorry for the confusion folks.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 08 mai 2013 - 10:39 .

[Brockololly]

scyphozoa wrote...

In regards to the thread title about EA getting hit hard financially, I think it is important to mention that following EA's announcement of SWTOR's recent success, EA's stock jumped 15%. 

While TOR helped, I kind of doubt EA's stock is rising solely because of TOR. You could likely put it as EA having reduced it's workforce by 10% over the past several months or just EA's performance in general from yesterday's results.

And hell, there is a good chance EA's stock goes back down 15% tomorrow as people cash in.

[Sejborg]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Similar stuff was said about DA2. I seem to remember a dev saying that
you simply had became better at making games, and that your past games
spoke for them selves.

And then huge parts of the game was only
preorder - demanding us to preorder and trust you. A trust you broke.
And now you ask to be trusted again? Sure... Why not? WHY NOT?!?

He's not asking to be trusted again. He's answering the question.

Feel free to not trust us.

It's the same thing. You are saying the exact same things as you did when you released DA2. But now it is supposed to be different somehow.

What will you do to win the trust back? Start telling the truth? Do you even care? Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC? Another that is Day 1 DLC? Another that is only collectors edition DLC? What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around? You say that I should feel free to not trust you. Yet your other posts in this very thread is telling us that you have found new purpose - that you seek to gain our trust. But we should still feel free to not trust you. How will you gain the fans trust? By not having us trust you? 

Modifié par Sejborg, 08 mai 2013 - 10:31 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Sejborg wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Similar stuff was said about DA2. I seem to remember a dev saying that
you simply had became better at making games, and that your past games
spoke for them selves.

And then huge parts of the game was only
preorder - demanding us to preorder and trust you. A trust you broke.
And now you ask to be trusted again? Sure... Why not? WHY NOT?!?

He's not asking to be trusted again. He's answering the question.

Feel free to not trust us.

It's the same thing. You are saying the exact same things as you did when you released DA2. But now it is supposed to be different somehow.

What will you do to win the trust back? Start telling the truth? Do you even care? Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC? Another that is Day 1 DLC? Another that is only collectors edition DLC? What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around? You say that I should feel free to not trust you. Yet your other posts in this very thread is telling us that you have found new purpose - that you seek to gain our trust. But we should still feel free to not trust you. How will you gain the fans trust? By not having us trust you? 

I read this post while listening to this.

Thank you.

[Brockololly]

Sejborg wrote...
What will you do to win the trust back? Start telling the truth? Do you even care? Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC? Another that is Day 1 DLC? Another that is only collectors edition DLC? What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around? You say that I should feel free to not trust you. Yet your other posts in this very thread is telling us that you have found new purpose - that you seek to gain our trust. But we should still feel free to not trust you. How will you gain the fans trust? By not having us trust you? 

You and I and everyone else will just have to wait and see what BioWare is going to say and do to try and win back people's trust ( of those who feel that trust has been deteriorated). That process likely starts at E3 once they unveil the game and start talking about it openly and once they start taking preorders.

Vote with your wallet and all that. If BioWare isn't forthcoming with their plans on things like day one DLC or trying to do time limited preorders like they did DA2, and that seems dirty to you, then don't buy the game. 

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 mai 2013 - 10:40 .

[Sejborg]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Sejborg wrote...
It's the same thing. You are saying the exact same things as you did when you released DA2. But now it is supposed to be different somehow.

What will you do to win the trust back? Start telling the truth? Do you even care? Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC? Another that is Day 1 DLC? Another that is only collectors edition DLC? What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around? You say that I should feel free to not trust you. Yet your other posts in this very thread is telling us that you have found new purpose - that you seek to gain our trust. But we should still feel free to not trust you. How will you gain the fans trust? By not having us trust you? 

I read this post while listening to this.

Thank you.

 Awesome. I wrote it while watching Spartacus. 

[Maverick827]

Sejborg wrote...

It's the same thing. You are saying the exact same things as you did when you released DA2. But now it is supposed to be different somehow.

Everyone hoped entering high school between now and then would have changed all of the haters' outlooks.

Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC?

Hasn't happened yet, so I don't see why you would bring this up.

Another that is Day 1 DLC?

I sure hope so; I don't want BioWare sitting around doing nothing for months in between going gold and release. 

Another that is only collectors edition DLC?

Again, hasn't happened yet.

What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around?

You don't have to do anything.  You either trust them or you don't.  I do.  You don't.  The weird part is that you're still here.

[LinksOcarina]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

In regards to the thread title about EA getting hit hard financially, I think it is important to mention that following EA's announcement of SWTOR's recent success, EA's stock jumped 15%. 

SWTOR helped, but it's more just the general response to the quarterly report that was released yesterday.  SWTOR is trending better, but the company made (minimally) more profit in FY13 than they did in FY12, which I think may have surprised some people as well.

Truth be told its about what I expected from EA right now.

It does spit in the face of the "EA deserves to die" chants I hear on the forums around the internet. And that is a good thing, honestly. 

[Allan Schumacher]

It's the same thing. You are saying the exact same things as you did when you released DA2. But now it is supposed to be different somehow.

We're saying the same things, sure.

If you want to not trust us, then don't trust us.

What will you do to win the trust back? Start telling the truth? Do you even care? Will we have a companion that is only preorder DLC? Another that is Day 1 DLC? Another that is only collectors edition DLC? What will you do to show that we don't have to blindly trust you this time around? You say that I should feel free to not trust you. Yet your other posts in this very thread is telling us that you have found new purpose - that you seek to gain our trust. But we should still feel free to not trust you. How will you gain the fans trust? By not having us trust you?

At the end of the day, the only thing we can do to actually gain the trust of someone like you is to release the game and have you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you won't trust us further.

What exactly are you hoping for? For us to say "the game is being rushed" (even if we don't think it is)?  Do you want us to say "We think the game will be mediocre" (even if we don't think it is)?  You want me to say "We will for sure have/not have Day One DLC" (when those types of things haven't even been decided yet)?  Collector's edition stuff?  Most of us are busy working on the game at this point.  Until you asked it's not something that I can recall crossing my mind in recent memory.

These are mostly rhetorical questions, because I do not believe there is anything that we can do to gain your trust aside from releasing the game. Other people may be more flexible, but Sejborg doesn't appear to be that way. And as such, the only way to regain your trust is to release the game and have it be high quality. Otherwise, we won't have gained your trust and that's that. What you do from there is up to you.

On a final note, keep in mind that it's also your responsibility as a consumer to move on when a company is no longer trustworthy. If you don't think you can trust us, I wouldn't encourage you to follow dev posts. Your lack of trust is going to cause you to interpret them in a certain way, which is fine, but it's likely going to reinforce your lack of trust. If you still can't trust us after DA3, I'd recommend not following or playing BioWare games. It only seems to serve as a point of aggravation and agitation for you.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 08 mai 2013 - 11:18 .

[chuckles471]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

In regards to the thread title about EA getting hit hard financially, I think it is important to mention that following EA's announcement of SWTOR's recent success, EA's stock jumped 15%. 

SWTOR helped, but it's more just the general response to the quarterly report that was released yesterday.  SWTOR is trending better, but the company made (minimally) more profit in FY13 than they did in FY12, which I think may have surprised some people as well.

I thought the stock jump was more to do with securing the Star Wars license and FIFA license(it sold over 13 million this year,wow).  The core games didn't do so well for EA.

[Sejborg]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
At the end of the day, the only thing we can do to actually gain the trust of someone like you is to release the game and have you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you won't trust us further.

What exactly are you hoping for? For us to say "the game is being rushed" (even if we don't think it is)?  Do you want us to say "We think the game will be mediocre" (even if we don't think it is)?  You want me to say "We will for sure have/not have Day One DLC" (when those types of things haven't even been decided yet)?  Collector's edition stuff?  Most of us are busy working on the game at this point.  Until you asked it's not something that I can recall crossing my mind in recent memory.

These are mostly rhetorical questions, because I do not believe there is anything that we can do to gain your trust aside from releasing the game. Other people may be more flexible, but Sejborg doesn't appear to be that way. And as such, the only way to regain your trust is to release the game and have it be high quality. Otherwise, we won't have gained your trust and that's that. What you do from there is up to you.

On a final note, keep in mind that it's also your responsibility as a consumer to move on when a company is no longer trustworthy. If you don't think you can trust us, I wouldn't encourage you to follow dev posts. Your lack of trust is going to cause you to interpret them in a certain way, which is fine, but it's likely going to reinforce your lack of trust. If you still can't trust us after DA3, I'd recommend not following or playing BioWare games. It only seems to serve as a point of aggravation and agitation for you.

But will you ask for my trust prior to the release? Will I be missing out on huge chunks of the game if I want to wait for reviews? Like the stunt you pulled with DA2 with the preorder special edition DLC? Or have you come to the conclusion that that might not have been a very nice move? Will I feel punished for just getting the standard edition and not trusting you blindly again, and missing out on huge chunks of the game? Am I still a customer that needs to be eleminated and punished for not preordering? Now I understand you haven't decided upon that yet, but try and keep in mind how different kinds of bonuses might be perceived from different customers. 

Of course I don't expect you to say the game is going to be crap or whatever. You are saying the only thing you CAN say. That it will be the best thing you can possibly make. But keep the other things in mind. 

As for never playing Bioware games again. I don't know. Dragon Age might be a goner, we shall see. But there is still other Bioware games being made by other Bioware departments. 

[LPPrince]

Jesus Sej, give Allan a break. Its Allan. He's not some evil overlord out to take all our monies.

Believe it or not he has people at his workplace who tell him what he has to do for a living. He's not gonna be able to give you what you want right now. Just let it go, man.

We get the feeling, we understand the feeling, but jumping on a developer when he's just spending his personal time here to take a break and have a little fun is a little much, eh?

[Sejborg]

LPPrince wrote...

Jesus Sej, give Allan a break. Its Allan. He's not some evil overlord out to take all our monies.

Believe it or not he has people at his workplace who tell him what he has to do for a living. He's not gonna be able to give you what you want right now. Just let it go, man.

We get the feeling, we understand the feeling, but jumping on a developer when he's just spending his personal time here to take a break and have a little fun is a little much, eh?

I'm not directing this at Allan or any other specific dev or community manager. This is directed at Bioware as a whole. I'm just presenting my point of view. They haven't decided yet so I am just glad I presented this perspective in time so it might be concidered. Hope is not lost yet.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Just as a suggestion? When responding directly to someone's post, basing your response on their direct words, but you actually mean a general group like a company, its much more civil to not use the "you" pronoun. It makes the entire argument sound like you are focusing all your comments and viewpoints at the person you are directly engaging.

Just my two cents.

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
A low bar does make clearing it something of a non-event, no?

We hold BioWare to a high standard.  I'd take that as a sign of our confidence in BioWare, not our skepticism.  If we doubted their competence, why would we ask for excellence?

Even as disappointed as I was in DA2 (as a follow up to DA:O) and ME3('s ending), I certainly DO (unfairly?) hold BioWare up to a higher standard than most game companies.  They have made KotOr and DA:O and the ME series.  Their engine made Icewind Dale possible.  I expect higher quality on several levels from BioWare.

Not as high, due to some recent disappointments, yes, but relatively high all the same.  And yet--and yet I don't EXPECT to love their games going forward.

It's a weird line, but there it is.

As for EA doing well, I'm sure it's the FIFA thing coupled with acquiring tne Star Wars licenses more than anything else.  EA has a virtual monopoly on sports games, and stuff like Madden and FIFA always sell remarkably well and can be counted on yearly.

[Ninja Stan]

But will you ask for my trust prior to the release?

BioWare doesn't ask for anyone's "trust." Trust is highly subjective and based on one's own perception of events and influenced by one's feelings of historical behaviour. If one feels BioWare "broke their trust" with DA2, then one will continue to feel that way until he feels that trust is regained, which may or may not ever happen. If, on the other hand, one still trusts BioWare, then nothing has changed. Regardless, neither has any effect on how BioWare is approaching their work regarding DA3 or the content in the game.

Will I be missing out on huge chunks of the game if I want to wait for reviews? Like the stunt you pulled with DA2 with the preorder special edition DLC?

Special editions with exclusive bonuses are enticements to pre-order the game. Generally, once those exclusives are done, the enticements to pre-order are gone. It's a reward for those who choose to commit early to buying the game. Think of them like Kickstarter bonuses. If you wish to wait for reviews before buying the game, then you risk missing out on the bonuses provided for those who buy early. This isn't BioWare or EA being a jerkface or "pulling stunts". This is you choosing not to take part in the bonus offer. The offer was clearly stated, the expiry was pretty heavily implied (ie. "preorder" means prior to the street date), pre-order reservation generally only costs $5, and IIRC, most game stores allow no-charge cancelling of a pre-order. There are also plenty of sites that publish previews, gameplay previews, and features on games prior to release. The choice is entirely yours.

Or have you come to the conclusion that that might not have been a very nice move? Will I feel punished for just getting the standard edition and not trusting you blindly again, and missing out on huge chunks of the game?

Again, you choose which version of the game you buy. No one else makes that choice for you. Publishers release special editions, collector editions, super-deluxe editions, and bonus offers to entice players to buy them. If you choose not to buy the versions with the bonus content, why are you expecting the bonus content? You have the chance to purchase the special editions or the bonus content  the same as everyone else. If you feel punished for not receiving such bonus content, then you might want to consider remedying that for the next game. Publishers sell you the precisely the version of the game you choose to buy.

Am I still a customer that needs to be eleminated and punished for not preordering? Now I understand you haven't decided upon that yet, but try and keep in mind how different kinds of bonuses might be perceived from different customers. 

No one is punished for pre-ordering. In fact, people are rewarded for pre-ordering with bonus content and sometimes exclusive content that can only be obtained by pre-ordering from certain retailers, or pre-ordering at all. Those who receive the basic game, without the bonus content, are not being punished anymore than average people are "punished" for not being extraordinary. At 5'6", I am not being "punished" by not being a good enough basketball player to be drafted by an NBA team. Nor are all the non-winners of a foot race "punished" for not winning. Nor are all the non-winners of a lottery "punished" by not winning. Nor is a person "punished" with merely a regular soft drink and regular fries for not Super Sizing their combo meal.

Of course I don't expect you to say the game is going to be crap or whatever. You are saying the only thing you CAN say. That it will be the best thing you can possibly make. But keep the other things in mind. 

As for never playing Bioware games again. I don't know. Dragon Age might be a goner, we shall see. But there is still other Bioware games being made by other Bioware departments. 

Neither BioWare nor EA has any responsibility or control over how you choose to spend your money. They release a product to sell, and only you can choose how you will spend that money. If you really want the bonus content, the extras, and the "big chunk of game" you say you're missing (which isn't really a "big chunk of game" or necessary to finish the base game), then you would probably be happier spending the extra money on a special edition, or committing the money to a pre-order. If you don't wish to do so, then you should probably accept that maybe, just maybe, you'll be missing out on some content that you might enjoy and regret not purchasing it later.

[Sejborg]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Just as a suggestion? When responding directly to someone's post, basing your response on their direct words, but you actually mean a general group like a company, its much more civil to not use the "you" pronoun. It makes the entire argument sound like you are focusing all your comments and viewpoints at the person you are directly engaging.

Just my two cents.

Should I have called him Bioware instead og you? Perhaps been more vague or have written more softly? This is not the first time I have expressed these concerns - however it is the first time I am not being ignored. So there is also that.

[Khayness]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Will I be missing out on huge chunks of the game if I want to wait for reviews? Like the stunt you pulled with DA2 with the preorder special edition DLC?

Special editions with exclusive bonuses are enticements to pre-order the game. Generally, once those exclusives are done, the enticements to pre-order are gone. It's a reward for those who choose to commit early to buying the game. Think of them like Kickstarter bonuses. If you wish to wait for reviews before buying the game, then you risk missing out on the bonuses provided for those who buy early. This isn't BioWare or EA being a jerkface or "pulling stunts". This is you choosing not to take part in the bonus offer. The offer was clearly stated, the expiry was pretty heavily implied (ie. "preorder" means prior to the street date), pre-order reservation generally only costs $5, and IIRC, most game stores allow no-charge cancelling of a pre-order. There are also plenty of sites that publish previews, gameplay previews, and features on games prior to release. The choice is entirely yours.

However it isn't our choice to limit all existing content into different versions of the same game.

I get the mindset behind this bussines practice, just as I get the thoughts behind DLCs as a way of maintaining consumer interest over time.

But I don't have to like it. You can't blame people for feeling missed out. Atleast EA didn't go (yet) so far in this regard as Ubisoft with the AC series.

Modifié par Khayness, 09 mai 2013 - 12:48 .