463 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Javik and Sebastian were far too "essential" for them to be cut out and sold, Javik provided an in-depth look into the Protheans which many players had interest in and Sebastian added a lot to the final segment of Dragon Age 2.

It wasn't like Shale or Zaeed, those two didn't add too much and you could very well play the game without noticing the hole they leave. Meanwhile, Sebastian and Javik's hole is a vacuum. It's disappointing looking at the destruction of the Chantry and not see Sebastian's "NOOOO~" or his reactions towards Anders or not knowing anything about the Protheans without Javik.

Bingo.

Zaeed had an awesome mission and was a great character but he felt like an extra character, not central to the game on your initial playthrough. You could easily pick up Zaeed's DLC after you had finished the game and still feel like you had gotten your money's worth out of him.

Part of the issue I have with Day 1 DLC characters like Sebastian or Javik is that they're Day 1 DLC in games already lacking in companions, for one. And two, they're integrated into the game too well. You can see where they would fit if you're not playing the game with them. Its like a jigsaw puzzle where you buy the whole puzzle except a handful of pieces are put behind an extra paywall. You can sense what you're missing but it just feels exploitative.

The other big issue I have with Day 1 DLC that are tightly integrated characters is that I don't think they work well at all if you're buying them post Day 1. They're content I'd want to play with on my first playthrough, if I'm going to play with them at all. I don't know whether or not I'm going to play a game twice. So I want my first time through to be good. I'd rather have Day 1 DLC like Warden's Keep where I can play it fully after I've completed the game as opposed to a companion who I have to take around with me to get the most out of them via banter and so forth.

[Steppenwolf]

LinksOcarina wrote...

The thing is you can't, or else the retailers won't carry it. At least, big box stores like Wal-Mart and Target won't.

It will have retailer-exclusive content, be it DLC or a pre-order edition. It is not even about exploitation, its about showing support to the distribution base outside of digital download sales.

I can't think of a single BioWare game that had exclusive content for Wal-Mart or Target. Wal-Mart and Target carry all AAA games, regardless of exclusive content. GameStop is the chain that demands exclusives, but they can't afford to stop carrying AAA games just to throw hissy fits. They already had to start buying and selling phones and tablets just to remain profitable.

[Khayness]

LPPrince wrote...

Also, it wasn't rushed. If DA3 can come even close to Skyrim as far as how great the game is crafted, then I'm a happy Prince.

I'd be careful with that, Skyrim was buggy when it came to quest triggers on release, I even put it on halt because of that.

Still, it is the 2nd most played game on my Steam profile, and I don't have any DLCs for it yet. When the Legendary Edition rolls out, I'll be in trouble.

[LPPrince]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
I like how Skyrim was released. No preorder incentive(barring CE's, and I got the standard anyway), no retailer-specific gimmick items.

It was just released. And woooooow did it feel good.

It was also released on a Friday.

Because seriously, damn you Tuesday.

/notentirelyrelated

Hey, I've got no problem with Tuesday releases. The fact that it was on a Friday to coincide with 11/11/11 was nice though.

I don't think DA needs to go that far though.

[LPPrince]

Khayness wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Also, it wasn't rushed. If DA3 can come even close to Skyrim as far as how great the game is crafted, then I'm a happy Prince.

I'd be careful with that, Skyrim was buggy when it came to quest triggers on release, I even put it on halt because of that.

Still, it is the 2nd most played game on my Steam profile, and I don't have any DLCs for it yet. When the Legendary Edition rolls out, I'll be in trouble.

Aye, I didn't run into many Skyrim bugs.

I think DA's better off on that front. Especially IF THEY DON'T RUSH THE GAME.

[spirosz]

Brockololly wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Javik and Sebastian were far too "essential" for them to be cut out and sold, Javik provided an in-depth look into the Protheans which many players had interest in and Sebastian added a lot to the final segment of Dragon Age 2.

It wasn't like Shale or Zaeed, those two didn't add too much and you could very well play the game without noticing the hole they leave. Meanwhile, Sebastian and Javik's hole is a vacuum. It's disappointing looking at the destruction of the Chantry and not see Sebastian's "NOOOO~" or his reactions towards Anders or not knowing anything about the Protheans without Javik.

Bingo.

Zaeed had an awesome mission and was a great character but he felt like an extra character, not central to the game on your initial playthrough. You could easily pick up Zaeed's DLC after you had finished the game and still feel like you had gotten your money's worth out of him.

Part of the issue I have with Day 1 DLC characters like Sebastian or Javik is that they're Day 1 DLC in games already lacking in companions, for one. And two, they're integrated into the game too well. You can see where they would fit if you're not playing the game with them. Its like a jigsaw puzzle where you buy the whole puzzle except a handful of pieces are put behind an extra paywall. You can sense what you're missing but it just feels exploitative.

The other big issue I have with Day 1 DLC that are tightly integrated characters is that I don't think they work well at all if you're buying them post Day 1. They're content I'd want to play with on my first playthrough, if I'm going to play with them at all. I don't know whether or not I'm going to play a game twice. So I want my first time through to be good. I'd rather have Day 1 DLC like Warden's Keep where I can play it fully after I've completed the game as opposed to a companion who I have to take around with me to get the most out of them via banter and so forth.

Word.  

[LPPrince]

^Mhm.

[dreamgazer]

spirosz wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Javik and Sebastian were far too "essential" for them to be cut out and sold, Javik provided an in-depth look into the Protheans which many players had interest in and Sebastian added a lot to the final segment of Dragon Age 2.

It wasn't like Shale or Zaeed, those two didn't add too much and you could very well play the game without noticing the hole they leave. Meanwhile, Sebastian and Javik's hole is a vacuum. It's disappointing looking at the destruction of the Chantry and not see Sebastian's "NOOOO~" or his reactions towards Anders or not knowing anything about the Protheans without Javik.

Bingo.

Zaeed had an awesome mission and was a great character but he felt like an extra character, not central to the game on your initial playthrough. You could easily pick up Zaeed's DLC after you had finished the game and still feel like you had gotten your money's worth out of him.

Part of the issue I have with Day 1 DLC characters like Sebastian or Javik is that they're Day 1 DLC in games already lacking in companions, for one. And two, they're integrated into the game too well. You can see where they would fit if you're not playing the game with them. Its like a jigsaw puzzle where you buy the whole puzzle except a handful of pieces are put behind an extra paywall. You can sense what you're missing but it just feels exploitative.

The other big issue I have with Day 1 DLC that are tightly integrated characters is that I don't think they work well at all if you're buying them post Day 1. They're content I'd want to play with on my first playthrough, if I'm going to play with them at all. I don't know whether or not I'm going to play a game twice. So I want my first time through to be good. I'd rather have Day 1 DLC like Warden's Keep where I can play it fully after I've completed the game as opposed to a companion who I have to take around with me to get the most out of them via banter and so forth.

Word.  

<3

[LPPrince]

Would be nice to see the game sell itself. The game ends up good, then word of mouth spreads, then "BACK IN THE GAME, BABY!"

*sudden influx of dancing at HQ*

[Khayness]

Brockololly wrote...

The other big issue I have with Day 1 DLC that are tightly integrated characters is that I don't think they work well at all if you're buying them post Day 1

Yeah, not really with Sebastian, atleast from a technical standpoint.

Remember the Isabela and Sebastian game breaking bugs?

Turns out that's why my very 1st run with a S&S Warrior was worthless (on Nightmare nevertheless), and the combat so much more worse than it already was. 2/3 of my criticisms of DA2 are combat related, guess it didn't help much now did it?

[LinksOcarina]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

The thing is you can't, or else the retailers won't carry it. At least, big box stores like Wal-Mart and Target won't.

It will have retailer-exclusive content, be it DLC or a pre-order edition. It is not even about exploitation, its about showing support to the distribution base outside of digital download sales.

I can't think of a single BioWare game that had exclusive content for Wal-Mart or Target. Wal-Mart and Target carry all AAA games, regardless of exclusive content. GameStop is the chain that demands exclusives, but they can't afford to stop carrying AAA games just to throw hissy fits. They already had to start buying and selling phones and tablets just to remain profitable.

I wasn't clear so let me rephrase it, the retailers want content outside of the game as proof of support, either incentive through DLC, collector editions, extra little bits here and there and downloadble content down the road. Gamestop, Amazon and Best Buy get exlusives most of the time yes, but its in the same vein as what Wal-Mart wants as well; extra content to show support.

Its eerily similar to Dimaond distribution in the tabletop realm, where they will supply books to retailers if there is proof of support via supplemental material. The point is it's done through a business scope; EA, and on that matter the gaming industry, is showing support for products beyond the first week of sales, which is where they make the most money, so that retailers will carry games longer in the stores new, and restock them when sold out. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 mai 2013 - 04:13 .

[LinksOcarina]

Brockololly wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Javik and Sebastian were far too "essential" for them to be cut out and sold, Javik provided an in-depth look into the Protheans which many players had interest in and Sebastian added a lot to the final segment of Dragon Age 2.

It wasn't like Shale or Zaeed, those two didn't add too much and you could very well play the game without noticing the hole they leave. Meanwhile, Sebastian and Javik's hole is a vacuum. It's disappointing looking at the destruction of the Chantry and not see Sebastian's "NOOOO~" or his reactions towards Anders or not knowing anything about the Protheans without Javik.

Bingo.

Zaeed had an awesome mission and was a great character but he felt like an extra character, not central to the game on your initial playthrough. You could easily pick up Zaeed's DLC after you had finished the game and still feel like you had gotten your money's worth out of him.

Part of the issue I have with Day 1 DLC characters like Sebastian or Javik is that they're Day 1 DLC in games already lacking in companions, for one. And two, they're integrated into the game too well. You can see where they would fit if you're not playing the game with them. Its like a jigsaw puzzle where you buy the whole puzzle except a handful of pieces are put behind an extra paywall. You can sense what you're missing but it just feels exploitative.

The other big issue I have with Day 1 DLC that are tightly integrated characters is that I don't think they work well at all if you're buying them post Day 1. They're content I'd want to play with on my first playthrough, if I'm going to play with them at all. I don't know whether or not I'm going to play a game twice. So I want my first time through to be good. I'd rather have Day 1 DLC like Warden's Keep where I can play it fully after I've completed the game as opposed to a companion who I have to take around with me to get the most out of them via banter and so forth.

Yet people complained about Zaeed because of he felt like an extra character and had little to do with the game! The fact that Sebastian and Javik were integrated should be a good thing, instead its not because its DLC? 

I am so confused by this line of thought. It seems hypocritical to me to complain about all of this, frankly, with this line of thinking. Before it was a broken piece of the puzzle, now its a piece that could be missing because you had to  pay more for it? 

Which way do you want the characters then? 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[Khayness]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I am so confused by this line of thought. Which way do you want the characters then?

On the disc would be my guess.

[LinksOcarina]

Khayness wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I am so confused by this line of thought. Which way do you want the characters then?

On the disc would be my guess.

When BioWare has been doing the same trend since 2005, and no one has complained about the trend itself until last year, I doubt thats going to happen. 

[spirosz]

LinksOcarina wrote...


Yet people complained about Zaeed because of he felt like an extra character and had little to do with the game! The fact that Sebastian and Javik were integrated should be a good thing, instead its not because its DLC? 

Think about it for a second.  "Extra" - what does that sound to you?  It's like ordering a meal with a side dish, you don't need it, but you can still purchase it, if it adds a little flavour to your meal.

Javik was the missing part of the meal, not the side dish. 

Modifié par spirosz, 09 mai 2013 - 04:24 .

[Khayness]

LinksOcarina wrote...

When BioWare has been doing the same trend since 2005, and no one has complained about the trend itself until last year, I doubt thats going to happen.

That's funny, I still have fond memories about the Collector's Armor whining and the outrage about the Dr. Pepper helmets. People here do not like missing out.

[LPPrince]

2005? Hmm. I remember(at least with me) the whole character being released Day One starting with Shale. I didn't have a problem with it because it was the first time I'd experienced a thing like that.

That was 2009 with DAO.

Then came 2010 with ME2. We had Zaeed Day One and Kasumi months later, though prior to release we heard the squad was a "Dirty Dozen", which everyone said meant 12 squaddies, then later we hear its ten, they never said twelve, they meant something different by it, and surprise- we ended up with 12 anyway down the line. Thats when I started getting suspicious.

2011. DA2. Sebastian. Now I'm like, "Oh come on. Seriously. Again?"

2012. ME3. Javik. "This is getting goddamned ridiculous"

So yeah, for ONCE I'd like for this to you know, not happen.

[ElitePinecone]

Cameron Lee wrote...

We don’t have the same kinds of business pressures that DA2 had, ...

Can anyone from Bioware clarify what these actually were?

Business reasons that required a shorter development period might go some way to neutralising the crazy "DA2 underperformed because Bioware literally wanted to betray its fans" conspiracies.

[Khayness]

LPPrince wrote...

2005? Hmm. I remember(at least with me) the whole character being released Day One starting with Shale. I didn't have a problem with it because it was the first time I'd experienced a thing like that.

Jade Empire playable characters.

As I've mentioned earlier, they've been doing it since BG2, starting with the Bonus Merchants.

Modifié par Khayness, 09 mai 2013 - 04:29 .

[spirosz]

Khayness wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

2005? Hmm. I remember(at least with me) the whole character being released Day One starting with Shale. I didn't have a problem with it because it was the first time I'd experienced a thing like that.

Jade Empire playable characters.

The CE one? 

[Khayness]

spirosz wrote...

The CE one?

Ye, that monk dude with the staff.

There were others aswell, some weapons and the demon rhino form iirc.

[LinksOcarina]

spirosz wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...


Yet people complained about Zaeed because of he felt like an extra character and had little to do with the game! The fact that Sebastian and Javik were integrated should be a good thing, instead its not because its DLC? 

Think about it for a second.  "Extra" - what does that sound to you?  It's like ordering a meal with a side dish, you don't need it, but you can still purchase it, if it adds a little flavour to your meal.

Javik was the missing part of the meal, not the side dish. 

Cut the bull**** for a minute. 

Extra is what Javik is too, but its a better extra in terms of, well, everything. Implemtation, development of character, cut-scenes and interaction. 

You say hes part of the meal, I say hes just a bigger extra to borrow your strawman argument. And again, people should be happy about that fact, but aren't for reasons I don't comprehend. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 mai 2013 - 04:34 .

[Urazz]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

The thing is you can't, or else the retailers won't carry it. At least, big box stores like Wal-Mart and Target won't.

It will have retailer-exclusive content, be it DLC or a pre-order edition. It is not even about exploitation, its about showing support to the distribution base outside of digital download sales.

I can't think of a single BioWare game that had exclusive content for Wal-Mart or Target. Wal-Mart and Target carry all AAA games, regardless of exclusive content. GameStop is the chain that demands exclusives, but they can't afford to stop carrying AAA games just to throw hissy fits. They already had to start buying and selling phones and tablets just to remain profitable.

Yeah, I really don't see the point in giving Gamestop exlusive content.  Let them throw a hissy fit and not carry DA3.  Then they'll be kicking themselves for missing out on all the money they would've made.

I myself don't mind Day 1 DLC as that does help game companies make sales on new boxes of the game instead of resales.  What I hate is retail exclusive game content.

I myself would like the content Gamestop gets but I will not buy games at their stores for various reasons.

Modifié par Urazz, 09 mai 2013 - 04:34 .

[AresKeith]

@LinksOcarina what's with the hostile attitude?

[LPPrince]

Khayness wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

2005? Hmm. I remember(at least with me) the whole character being released Day One starting with Shale. I didn't have a problem with it because it was the first time I'd experienced a thing like that.

Jade Empire playable characters.

As I've mentioned earlier, they've been doing it since BG2, starting with the Bonus Merchants.

Hmm.