463 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

chuckles471 wrote...

@robertthebard

"DA I is rushed because a BioWare employee said it's not, and well, they must be lying" with paraphrasing like that you could work at a tabloid newspaper.


I never said DA 3 "is" being rushed and I never said they were "lying". I just said their is no way of knowing because they would never admit a game being rushed pre-release(Bioware are in the business of selling games). And the only way to judge it, is by playing the game. Huge difference.

So let's assume the worst because reasons?  We know absolutely nothing of import about the game at this time, so saying "you're not going to get an (honest) answer" is trolling for the sake of trolling.  Cherry picking one line out of a response will leave you looking that way, won't it?  I believe you'll find that I addressed what you said in the post where I actually quoted you.

[Maverick827]

greengoron89 wrote...

Regardless, I think it's safe to say DA2 was not received as well by the fanbase as a whole compared to DA:O.

That's not safe to say at all.  The naysayers on these forums are not "the fanbase."  When you're talking sales in the millions, the opinions you see on the internet - here, plus the posters on Gamespot, plus the posters on Metacritic, plus the posters on other game's off-topic forums... - are still only a tiny fraction of "the fanbase."

And one thing DA2 had going for it that DA:O didn't was hype and marketing. DA:O didn't have the good fortune of being preceded by an award-winning game that was a hit with critics and fans alike and gave people high hopes for its sequel... it had to become that.

This can go the other way.  I have a friend who could not stand DA:O.  I had to talk him into trying DA2 and he very much enjoyed it.  What authority are you to know this unknowable statistic?

[billy the squid]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

RepHope wrote...

Plus there's the fact that Maveric is an ass. BTW that's a great sig Mav it suits you perfectly

That's a quote from the comedian Louis C.K. in reference to immature children whining when the amazing technology we have today is not absolutely perfect, e.g. anyone who complains about a video game.

But thank you for exemplifying the type of trash I was mentioning earlier.

It's nice to know you're content to settle for mediocrity, which would go someway to giveing context to most of your posts. Because, if something exists in an imperfect state, you shouldn't point out the problem, you should accept it and be greatful. The epitome of compacency right there.  

You have never seen louis c.k's stand up or heard any of his comments, have you? In context, that line is about stupid people who do things like complain that their phones internet is too slow, and who make it such a big deal about it and make no aknowledgement of how amazing it is their technology really is. Essentially, it is about people who only complain about things.

Here, enjoy some very good comedy.

Unfortunately, criticism of any aspect of BioWare games is anathema to Maverick. That is the context, it's not falling apart, so why expect anything more.

[Conduit0]

StreetMagic wrote...

Criticism is cool. I have plenty of criticism for DA2 myself. I just don't understand why it has to be so hyperbolic. Critics would probably be more tolerated if they were simply matter-of-fact in how they spoke. Instead, many people lose their cool when stating criticism. Like they think that sells their point better. It doesn't.

edit: Then again, maybe that's just me. I'm not good with highly emotional discussions in general.

Asking them to not be hyperbolic is like asking a fish to not get wet.

[Maverick827]

billy the squid wrote...

Unfortunately, criticism of any aspect of BioWare games is anathema to Maverick. That is the context, it's not falling apart, so why expect anything more.

This is simply not true.  It's childish, hyperbolic rhetoric like "criticism of any aspect of BioWare games is anathema to Maverick" that is actually anathema to Maverick.

[cJohnOne]

Maverick827 wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Regardless, I think it's safe to say DA2 was not received as well by the fanbase as a whole compared to DA:O.

That's not safe to say at all.  The naysayers on these forums are not "the fanbase."  When you're talking sales in the millions, the opinions you see on the internet - here, plus the posters on Gamespot, plus the posters on Metacritic, plus the posters on other game's off-topic forums... - are still only a tiny fraction of "the fanbase."

I've always thought the same thing.  There are millions of people that weren't asked there opinions.  We don't know what people think.  You can imagine that if you took a random sample you'd get a lot of casual gamers who don't have much of an opinion one way or another.

[Realmzmaster]

 I do believe that EA is doing better than before and it is beating Wall street estimates according to this news piece from Reuters. EA is still not out of the woods, but signs of recovery are there.

news.yahoo.com/electronic-arts-revenue-drops-fourth-quarter-201848802.html

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 07 mai 2013 - 10:13 .

[Dusk Wolf]

Chris Priestly wrote...

jstme wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins..with slightly over 2 years of development still were going to be seriously rushed.

HAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh. DAO was in development for 6 years. "slightly over 2 years" and, especially "rushed" are phrases I never expected to be used with Dragon Age: Origins.

Look at it this way. We know DA2 was not as popular with fans as we were hoping. Yes, it sold well, but we know that there are fans who were disappointed with aspects of the game (reusing areas like "that cave", wave combat dropping form the sky, etc) and have said that if DA3 is not better, they will pretty much give up on the series.

So, from both BioWare and EA's point of view, we need to make DA3 significantly better than DA2. Simply getting the same sales & reviews that DA2 had isn't really going to be enough. BioWare and EA hope that DA3 sells really well, that critics and fans alike love the game, and they we can continue to make more games in the Dragon Age franchise in the future. This is what we want.

If you are one of the people who believe that EA doesn't really care about quality and only care about making money, the BEST way they can make money is to let us make Dragon Age 3 an amazing title so they can continue to make money for years to come. Thinking they will rush the game out and potentially end a very valuable franchise for the sake of a quick buck, just doesn't make any sense.

As I said, DA3 is not being rushed out. Work is going really well and the Dev team are hard at work making DA3 the amazing game we know it will be. No cancellations here.

That may have been why DA2 wasn't as popular. While I do understand that developing an entirely new world with lore, backstory, the codex entries, and dialogue probably takes a lot of time so I can understand that 6 years isn't necessary for every game but a two year turn around on an RPG can pose problems. I can see 3 years being doable to deliver an immersize game with a balance between good gameplay and story line. I'm ok with people setting the bar high but a two year development cycle to me sounds like someone biting off more than they can chew. I'm in no hurry for the next dragon age to come out and I wasn't in a hurry for Mass Effect 3 to come out. Since it will most likely bring about a better game then by all means take all the time in the world. That will give a game replayability for me, not the addition of multiplayer.

[In Exile]

greengoron89 wrote...
And one thing DA2 had going for it that DA:O didn't was hype and marketing. DA:O didn't have the good fortune of being preceded by an award-winning game that was a hit with critics and fans alike and gave people high hopes for its sequel... it had to become that.

DA:O had a lot of hype and marketing. If you had been around when the game was coming out, the forum almost imploded in rage when the first "this is the new ****" trailer was released and calls for the head of every Bioware developer flooded the forum. It was almost as bad as the time when they changed the DA logo, added the bloodsplatter dragon, and one poster kept hating on the actual origins as the death of roleplay by calling MShep "Eddie". 

Not to mention that based on the original pitch, DA:O was preceeded by a hit game that sold millions - the basically legendary BG2. In fact, the most common debate we use to have on the old bioware boards prior to DA:O's release was how DA:O was going to tank and it represented Bioware selling out to the MMO crowd by abandoning everything good about BG2. 

Lots of features were hated on, like origins stories and the entire combat. 

Modifié par In Exile, 07 mai 2013 - 11:45 .

[Melca36]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

SeismicGravy wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

@robertthebard

"DA I is rushed because a BioWare employee said it's not, and well, they must be lying" with paraphrasing like that you could work at a tabloid newspaper.


I never said DA 3 "is" being rushed and I never said they were "lying". I just said their is no way of knowing because they would never admit a game being rushed pre-release(Bioware are in the business of selling games). And the only way to judge it, is by playing the game. Huge difference.

To be fair, Duke Nukem 3D was in development for 15 years, and look how bad that turned out.

I think the best option avaliable at the moment is to simply be patient, and wait for the finished product. Only then can we get a truely accurate impression.

It was bad because it was in development for so long.

I agree. Also Duke Nukem's last game came out in 1998.    Alot has changed since then and games have grown more sophisticated.  I knew it was going to flop before it was even released. 

[Harle Cerulean]

In Exile wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...
And one thing DA2 had going for it that DA:O didn't was hype and marketing. DA:O didn't have the good fortune of being preceded by an award-winning game that was a hit with critics and fans alike and gave people high hopes for its sequel... it had to become that.

DA:O had a lot of hype and marketing. If you had been around when the game was coming out, the forum almost imploded in rage when the first "this is the new ****" trailer was released and calls for the head of every Bioware developer flooded the forum. It was almost as bad as the time when they changed the DA logo, added the bloodsplatter dragon, and one poster kept hating on the actual origins as the death of roleplay by calling MShep "Eddie". 

Not to mention that based on the original pitch, DA:O was preceeded by a hit game that sold millions - the basically legendary BG2. In fact, the most common debate we use to have on the old bioware boards prior to DA:O's release was how DA:O was going to tank and it represented Bioware selling out to the MMO crowd by abandoning everything good about BG2. 

Lots of features were hated on, like origins stories and the entire combat. 

 

Which are, ironically, the things that the DA2 haters call for the return of most.   I don't pay the haters much attention anymore though, which is fine, since according to them I don't even exist.  (Given that no one could possibly play and enjoy DA2 after playing and enjoying DA:O, and therefore I am no one.)

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 07 mai 2013 - 11:58 .

[addiction21]

Conduit0 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Criticism is cool. I have plenty of criticism for DA2 myself. I just don't understand why it has to be so hyperbolic. Critics would probably be more tolerated if they were simply matter-of-fact in how they spoke. Instead, many people lose their cool when stating criticism. Like they think that sells their point better. It doesn't.

edit: Then again, maybe that's just me. I'm not good with highly emotional discussions in general.

Asking them to not be hyperbolic is like asking a fish to not get wet.

Pretty much. It does not really help when its the same people doing it every day in every thread over and over again.

And when they don't like DA3 (because they have already decided not to or are so invested in hating everything connected to EA) it will be rushed.

It being rushed is a easy cristisim to throw out and almost impossible to prove or disprove since far more goes into it then when the development started or whatever dates they use.

[In Exile]

Harle Cerulean wrote...Which are, ironically, the things that the DA2 haters call for the return of most.   I don't pay the haters much attention anymore though, which is fine, since according to them I don't even exist.  (Given that no one could possibly play and enjoy DA2 after playing and enjoying DA:O, and therefore I am no one.)

Well, presumably DA:O just picked up a lot of new fans for the old BG2 fans that it lost, whereas lots of other BG2 fans just never really cared about the "mysterious stranger" background and were really excited about incorporating the PC more into the gameworld (this was a big trend and goal in the mid 2000s - just check out NWN2s approach to doing it).

[EpicBoot2daFace]

MrCrabby wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
To be fair, DA2 scored high amongst the gaming press. It was the fan reaction that told a very different story. One could interpret this in a few ways. Either the gaming press aren't critical enough of the games they review or fans are being overly critical. I like to think it's a bit of both most of the time. However, in this case, I think the fans were pretty spot on about all the things wrong with this sequel.

A major studio could put out a child abuse simulator and still get high scores from the gaming "press". I want the game to be great because I love Origins and it's style of RPG. I'm just not optimistic based on the comments the developers have already made.

Such as?

[Monica21]

Seraph Cross wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
I was leaning towards buying Skyrim until I read the quote that it was an RPG for people who don't like RPGs. Clearly I was not Bethesda's target market, so I didn't buy it.

Somebody on the dev team actually said that!?

Devs say the darnest things I suppose. If that happens to be true.

From the Wayback Machine: http://www.ign.com/a...-the-rest-of-us 

And now that I've found it (I've tweeted quite a lot since 2011) I did misremember it, so apologies to Bethesda's dev team. It's an IGN blog, but tweeted by Bethesda's blog team and then retweeted by Pete Hines, head of Bethesda's Marketing team (and guy who occasionally gets to drive the boss's Ferrari). The multiple tweets serve as an endorsement of an opinion by a guy who hates RPGs but loved Skyrim. Clearly not a game I'll be interested in.

I was under no illusions that Bethesda would miss my $60. I didn't buy the game and then rant about it on the forums. I just didn't buy it. My opinion didn't matter and my lack of purchase didn't send Bethesda into a financial tailspin, and that's fine. I voiced an opinion about Oblivion way back and then that was it.

Now, as for "ripping a game company apart", well, why shouldn't we do that? See, there's a difference between "here are 10 reasons I hated this game" and mindless ranting. Who doesn't think that EA is giving Bioware more development time specifically because of the reactions to ME3 and DA2? Gamers aren't stupid and we know when a game is rushed because pieces don't fit. Because sets are reused. Because bad guys jump from ceilings. 

One thing I do know from conversations with developers is that for every one thing I don't like about a game, a developer will have thirty. They know what's wrong with the game far better than we do. They know what they would rather have done and they know what shortcuts they had to take. But, and this is a big one, if the guys calling the shots are still making money off a crap product then a crap product is what we'll continue to get. There are certainly things that will prevent me from buying Inquisition. Considering how poorly received DA2 was, will my $60 make a difference? This time, maybe, because I know it won't just be my $60.

[Heimdall]

greengoron89 wrote..

In Exile wrote...
DA:O had a lot of hype and marketing. If you had been around when the game was coming out, the forum almost imploded in rage when the first "this is the new ****" trailer was released and calls for the head of every Bioware developer flooded the forum. It was almost as bad as the time when they changed the DA logo, added the bloodsplatter dragon, and one poster kept hating on the actual origins as the death of roleplay by calling MShep "Eddie". 

Not to mention that based on the original pitch, DA:O was preceeded by a hit game that sold millions - the basically legendary BG2. In fact, the most common debate we use to have on the old bioware boards prior to DA:O's release was how DA:O was going to tank and it represented Bioware selling out to the MMO crowd by abandoning everything good about BG2. 

Lots of features were hated on, like origins stories and the entire combat. 

...

...if that's really the kind of stuff people were saying about DA:O before it came out, then I'm glad I wasn't around back then... because that's probably the most profoundly retarded s*** I've ever heard. :|

Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

[Realmzmaster]

greengoron89 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...
And one thing DA2 had going for it that DA:O didn't was hype and marketing. DA:O didn't have the good fortune of being preceded by an award-winning game that was a hit with critics and fans alike and gave people high hopes for its sequel... it had to become that.

DA:O had a lot of hype and marketing. If you had been around when the game was coming out, the forum almost imploded in rage when the first "this is the new ****" trailer was released and calls for the head of every Bioware developer flooded the forum. It was almost as bad as the time when they changed the DA logo, added the bloodsplatter dragon, and one poster kept hating on the actual origins as the death of roleplay by calling MShep "Eddie". 

Not to mention that based on the original pitch, DA:O was preceeded by a hit game that sold millions - the basically legendary BG2. In fact, the most common debate we use to have on the old bioware boards prior to DA:O's release was how DA:O was going to tank and it represented Bioware selling out to the MMO crowd by abandoning everything good about BG2. 

Lots of features were hated on, like origins stories and the entire combat. 

...

...if that's really the kind of stuff people were saying about DA:O before it came out, then I'm glad I wasn't around back then... because that's probably the most profoundly retarded s*** I've ever heard. :|

No it is a matter of perspective. DAO deviated from the D & D setting and system. Bioware created its own IP  which stripped out some of the elements that made the BG series some of the best crpgs of all time. DAO got a lot of hate or dislike.

[Leones Maneres]

EntropicAngel wrote...

EA is getting hit hard financially? Source?

As I understood it, they actually improved last quarter.


As for the topic, It's been slightly over two years since the release of DA ][. It's too "late" for EA to rush DA:I out. Rushing it out would have been March this year.

Depends on your definition of "rushing," of course.

Agreed.

All of 6 months separated the release of the last DLC for DA:O (Sept. 2010) and the release of DA2 (March, 2011).

Now compare that to the last DLC for DA2 - Mask of the Assassin.  Released 10/11/2011...or well over 18 months ago.  Bioware learned their lesson from the negative response to DA2...

And from the equally opposite response to the release of Skyrim (5 + years in the making, and well worth the wait).

Why do you think they are being so solicitous of fan opinion?  Because they want to make the best possible product this time. 

To which I say - kudos, Bioware.

[addiction21]

greengoron89 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...
And one thing DA2 had going for it that DA:O didn't was hype and marketing. DA:O didn't have the good fortune of being preceded by an award-winning game that was a hit with critics and fans alike and gave people high hopes for its sequel... it had to become that.

DA:O had a lot of hype and marketing. If you had been around when the game was coming out, the forum almost imploded in rage when the first "this is the new ****" trailer was released and calls for the head of every Bioware developer flooded the forum. It was almost as bad as the time when they changed the DA logo, added the bloodsplatter dragon, and one poster kept hating on the actual origins as the death of roleplay by calling MShep "Eddie". 

Not to mention that based on the original pitch, DA:O was preceeded by a hit game that sold millions - the basically legendary BG2. In fact, the most common debate we use to have on the old bioware boards prior to DA:O's release was how DA:O was going to tank and it represented Bioware selling out to the MMO crowd by abandoning everything good about BG2. 

Lots of features were hated on, like origins stories and the entire combat. 

...

...if that's really the kind of stuff people were saying about DA:O before it came out, then I'm glad I wasn't around back then... because that's probably the most profoundly retarded s*** I've ever heard. :|

That's been the typical circle for ever release since the first BG game. BG2 was not a carbon copy so BIoware should be damned.
Then there was NeverWinter. Went full 3d and dropped the whole group and companions.
Then KoToR which was console first and much closer to DA:O then either BG game. There is a big IN MY OWN OPINION attached to that but that doesn't matter because BioWare is evil and only just started catering to the console crowd.
Jade Empire again have little in common for gameplay to their previous games.
Oh did I mention BIoWare "selling out" to LucasArts for KoTor?
Then there is Mass Effect, Microsoft and again being console first.

None of that matters because the old forums got killed and along came DA:O the new gold standard for BioWare.

Its goddamned tiring being a "real" BIoWare fan that wants them to go back to their root and make another giant robot simulator.

Also I would rather have the BIoWare teams working on any game with their experience and sincere love of what they are doing. Be it writing, coding, QA, cinematic design to the producers.  DA2 "might be BIowares worst game ever" but I would take that rushed mess over many others best games.

[Sanunes]

addiction21 wrote...

That's been the typical circle for ever release since the first BG game. BG2 was not a carbon copy so BIoware should be damned.
Then there was NeverWinter. Went full 3d and dropped the whole group and companions.
Then KoToR which was console first and much closer to DA:O then either BG game. There is a big IN MY OWN OPINION attached to that but that doesn't matter because BioWare is evil and only just started catering to the console crowd.
Jade Empire again have little in common for gameplay to their previous games.
Oh did I mention BIoWare "selling out" to LucasArts for KoTor?
Then there is Mass Effect, Microsoft and again being console first.

None of that matters because the old forums got killed and along came DA:O the new gold standard for BioWare.

Its goddamned tiring being a "real" BIoWare fan that wants them to go back to their root and make another giant robot simulator.

Also I would rather have the BIoWare teams working on any game with their experience and sincere love of what they are doing. Be it writing, coding, QA, cinematic design to the producers.  DA2 "might be BIowares worst game ever" but I would take that rushed mess over many others best games.

Sounds about right, every game BioWare has released since the original Baulder's Gate has been unfaithful to the real fans because they make changes according to the BioWare boards.  I personally like the fact BioWare makes changes to their games because I loose interest if the game plays nearly identical to everything they have released in the past, why bother buying the new game. I will always say that Dragon Age 2 was a big let down for me, but I still completed the game and enjoyed it more then others I have paid for in the past.

The "origin" idea for Dragon Age Inquisition has my curiosity peaked because if its going to be similar to races I think it would add replay value.  Add in the list of complaints we have from Dragon Age 2 that they have acknowledged and the changes made in the Dragon Age 2 DLC.

Modifié par Sanunes, 08 mai 2013 - 05:37 .