402 réponses à ce sujet

[Killdren88]

If this sort of thing was real. You can be damn sure no one would be preaching in the defense of the Reapers

[teh DRUMPf!!]

^ I'd say the fanbase opinion as-is is plenty accurate to how it would be IRL: most hate, some sympathize.

It's probably more accurate than how most treat other alien species and especially synthetics like geth in game.

We humans are just like that, easily conditioned and quite fearful of what's different from us.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 11 mai 2013 - 03:12 .

[Steelcan]

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

[Steelcan]

Killdren88 wrote...

If this sort of thing was real. You can be damn sure no one would be preaching in the defense of the Reapers

.  Replace geth with Skynet and quarians with humans...

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

If this sort of thing was real. You can be damn sure no one would be preaching in the defense of the Reapers

.  Replace geth with Skynet and quarians with humans...

Oh, but Skynet is evil... because we're the ones it callously exterminated (in self-defense). 

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 mai 2013 - 04:12 .

[Naraza]

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Steelcan]

Naraza wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

.  Given how much paint BioWare used to white wash the geth im surprised the game isnt bleached out.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

Naraza wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

.  Given how much paint BioWare used to white wash the geth im surprised the game isnt bleached out.

BW overdid it with the Geth in ME3. I would probably have sided with them no matter what, but they really decided to make the Quarians out to be the bad guys. I blame both parties equally, the I still hold the total fault in the hands of the Quarians.

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

Naraza wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

.  Given how much paint BioWare used to white wash the geth im surprised the game isnt bleached out.

I'm probably going to get in trouble for what I'm about to say here, but...

I think it's an unfortunate artifact of western education we see being expressed here. To listen to what we're taught, everyone in the west should be deeply ashamed of their heritage and spend their whole lives apologizing for things that happened before they were born. Self-defacement has become a reflex, which makes people overly-willing to forgive or blame themselves for the actions of others in the name of political correctness. Instead of truly viewing and treating everyone as equals, the "other," the "different" gets elevated - lest we be seen as intolerant. And that is what has manifest here.

No, the Reapers aren't evil, they're misunderstood, and we need to accept that they're saving us from ourselves. Nothing they did was ever really their fault, and we need to make accomodations for that. No, the same standard of justice can't be held to the Geth - they can't be seen as accountable for committing their own genocide, or letting the heretics have at us, or throwing the entire galaxy under the bus now in exchange for being destroyed by the Reapers later; clearly everything they've done can be laid at the feet of others; clearly the Quarians of today can be accosted not just for their actions, but for the the crimes of their forefathers with righteous indignation (see dialogue in the paragon Peace outcome). It's the open-minded thing to do, siding with that which is more different because it is different. If you side against the Geth, well, clearly it's not on account of their actions; it's because they're different; it's because you're "siding with the familiar." In other words, you're a racist.

I fully expect to be chewed out for saying it, as I fully expect my meaning to be misinterpreted, so let me make this clear: equality - true equality and an objective standard of justice is what we ought to strive for.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 mai 2013 - 05:00 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

Beside the point, Canswell.

FWIW, I think the only reason that peace wasn't the landslide choice there is because you can fail to get the option.

[DeinonSlayer]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

Beside the point, Canswell.

FWIW, I think the only reason that peace wasn't the landslide choice there is because you can fail to get the option.

It's to be expected. You can't get peace in a non-import playthrough.

One must bear in mind that the same pool shows 64% have Wreav, and 92% cure the Genophage anyway - which is about the stupidest thing one can do. Seems to me a lot of people out there were thoughtlessly clicking the top of the wheel.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 mai 2013 - 05:08 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Yeah, that was an eyebrow-raising stat!

[Ieldra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

Beside the point, Canswell.

FWIW, I think the only reason that peace wasn't the landslide choice there is because you can fail to get the option.

It's to be expected. You can't get peace in a non-import playthrough.

One must bear in mind that the same pool shows 64% have Wreav, and 92% cure the Genophage anyway - which is about the stupidest thing one can do. Seems to me a lot of people out there were thoughtlessly clicking the top of the wheel.

It's even worse: the official stats say 64% did NOT have Wrex, which is plausible since about 50% didn't import from ME1 so they didn't have Wrex by default. Which means, more than half of all players cured the genophage without Wrex around. Does anyone know the default (non-import) state of Maelon's research?

[Megaton_Hope]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
I'm probably going to get in trouble for what I'm about to say here, but...

I think it's an unfortunate artifact of western education we see being expressed here. To listen to what we're taught, everyone in the west should be deeply ashamed of their heritage and spend their whole lives apologizing for things that happened before they were born. Self-defacement has become a reflex, which makes people overly-willing to forgive or blame themselves for the actions of others in the name of political correctness. Instead of truly viewing and treating everyone as equals, the "other," the "different" gets elevated - lest we be seen as intolerant. And that is what has manifest here.

No, the Reapers aren't evil, they're misunderstood, and we need to accept that they're saving us from ourselves. Nothing they did was ever really their fault, and we need to make accomodations for that. No, the same standard of justice can't be held to the Geth - they can't be seen as accountable for committing their own genocide, or letting the heretics have at us, or throwing the entire galaxy under the bus now in exchange for being destroyed by the Reapers later; clearly everything they've done can be laid at the feet of others; clearly the Quarians of today can be accosted not just for their actions, but for the the crimes of their forefathers with righteous indignation (see dialogue in the paragon Peace outcome). It's the open-minded thing to do, siding with that which is more different because it is different. If you side against the Geth, well, clearly it's not on account of their actions; it's because they're different; it's because you're "siding with the familiar." In other words, you're a racist.

I fully expect to be chewed out for saying it, as I fully expect my meaning to be misinterpreted, so let me make this clear: equality - true equality and an objective standard of justice is what we ought to strive for.

You're an American, right? Lemme guess - you vote Republican?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Does anyone know the default (non-import) state of Maelon's research?

It's treated like you never went on the mission; Mordin does not have the data.

[DeinonSlayer]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
I'm probably going to get in trouble for what I'm about to say here, but...

I think it's an unfortunate artifact of western education we see being expressed here. To listen to what we're taught, everyone in the west should be deeply ashamed of their heritage and spend their whole lives apologizing for things that happened before they were born. Self-defacement has become a reflex, which makes people overly-willing to forgive or blame themselves for the actions of others in the name of political correctness. Instead of truly viewing and treating everyone as equals, the "other," the "different" gets elevated - lest we be seen as intolerant. And that is what has manifest here.

No, the Reapers aren't evil, they're misunderstood, and we need to accept that they're saving us from ourselves. Nothing they did was ever really their fault, and we need to make accomodations for that. No, the same standard of justice can't be held to the Geth - they can't be seen as accountable for committing their own genocide, or letting the heretics have at us, or throwing the entire galaxy under the bus now in exchange for being destroyed by the Reapers later; clearly everything they've done can be laid at the feet of others; clearly the Quarians of today can be accosted not just for their actions, but for the the crimes of their forefathers with righteous indignation (see dialogue in the paragon Peace outcome). It's the open-minded thing to do, siding with that which is more different because it is different. If you side against the Geth, well, clearly it's not on account of their actions; it's because they're different; it's because you're "siding with the familiar." In other words, you're a racist.

I fully expect to be chewed out for saying it, as I fully expect my meaning to be misinterpreted, so let me make this clear: equality - true equality and an objective standard of justice is what we ought to strive for.

You're an American, right? Lemme guess - you vote Republican?

Would it be a problem if I were?

Much of my first paragraph, TBH, was channeling Pat Condell. The republicans are really no better than the democrats.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 mai 2013 - 06:19 .

[Astartes Marine]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Yes, if Reapers were real and had invaded everywhere you could possibly go to escape them, the sane response would be to fear them. Not fearing them is possible, but would indicate something deeply, pathologically wrong.

"This is war. People die."

People in wars experience fear, including the most battle-hardened of veterans.

One of the misconceptions about bravery is that it is an absence of fear. It isn't. The difference between a coward and a hero is that the coward is conquered by his fear while the hero does his or her duty despite it.

If Shepard didn't experience any fear, there would be something pathologically wrong with him.

"Can a man be brave if he's afraid?"

"That's the only time a man can be brave."

Only a madman knows no fear.
A warrior knows what fear is, he feels it in his stomach, he understands fear better than any other mortal can.  What makes us strong is that we have conquered fear, overcome it not once but many times over and over again until the  process has become instinctive, but no matter how many battles you fight and how many victories you win your fear will never completely leave you.

Learn to live with that fear. Learn to master your fear.  But never forget that there are things in this universe that even you cannot face and live, abominations so terrible that their very appearance will sear the flesh from your face and  shrivel your eyes.  Such things cannot be fought, and to confront them would be nothing but a futile waste of life. 

In those situations remember your vows to serve the Emperor, and remember also that you serve him best alive and not sacrificed upon the altar of vain glory.

~~Memorum Libris de Petronius Caligarus, Ultramarines Captain~~


Felt that it was applicable.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 11 mai 2013 - 11:27 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Naraza wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

.  Given how much paint BioWare used to white wash the geth im surprised the game isnt bleached out.

I'm probably going to get in trouble for what I'm about to say here, but...

I think it's an unfortunate artifact of western education we see being expressed here. To listen to what we're taught, everyone in the west should be deeply ashamed of their heritage and spend their whole lives apologizing for things that happened before they were born. Self-defacement has become a reflex, which makes people overly-willing to forgive or blame themselves for the actions of others in the name of political correctness. Instead of truly viewing and treating everyone as equals, the "other," the "different" gets elevated - lest we be seen as intolerant. And that is what has manifest here.

No, the Reapers aren't evil, they're misunderstood, and we need to accept that they're saving us from ourselves. Nothing they did was ever really their fault, and we need to make accomodations for that. No, the same standard of justice can't be held to the Geth - they can't be seen as accountable for committing their own genocide, or letting the heretics have at us, or throwing the entire galaxy under the bus now in exchange for being destroyed by the Reapers later; clearly everything they've done can be laid at the feet of others; clearly the Quarians of today can be accosted not just for their actions, but for the the crimes of their forefathers with righteous indignation (see dialogue in the paragon Peace outcome). It's the open-minded thing to do, siding with that which is more different because it is different. If you side against the Geth, well, clearly it's not on account of their actions; it's because they're different; it's because you're "siding with the familiar." In other words, you're a racist.

I fully expect to be chewed out for saying it, as I fully expect my meaning to be misinterpreted, so let me make this clear: equality - true equality and an objective standard of justice is what we ought to strive for.

I'm not going to say anything about your post (I disagree with several parts of it), but I will say the word you're looking for is not equality, at least not in the context of how you're using it. You're using the terminology for fairness. It's a bit of a different beast. It'd be more appropriate to say that you're not treating the Quarians fairly in relation to the Geth. I can see where you're coming from with your post, and agree that some people are like that. Think Auld Wulf. But also understand that some people, like myself, really do believe that in a game of faults, both go pretty far. Really, going by a system of equality combined with justice, it's best to let both the Geth and Quarians kill each other. Makes peace for the rest of the galaxy.

[Steelcan]

@MassivelyEffective, I thonk his point is that the quarians do not have to bear guilt for the Morning War. They are several generations removed from it.

[PsyrenY]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Does anyone know the default (non-import) state of Maelon's research?

It's treated like you never went on the mission; Mordin does not have the data.

What if you use the Genesis 2 comic and take the option to make everyone loyal (that results in the crew dying?) Is the data safe then?

[Steelcan]

Optimystic_X wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Does anyone know the default (non-import) state of Maelon's research?

It's treated like you never went on the mission; Mordin does not have the data.

What if you use the Genesis 2 comic and take the option to make everyone loyal (that results in the crew dying?) Is the data safe then?

.  I think it counts as destroyed.

[Argolas]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0 according to BioWare's info release more people side with the geth than quarians.

Beside the point, Canswell.

FWIW, I think the only reason that peace wasn't the landslide choice there is because you can fail to get the option.

It's to be expected. You can't get peace in a non-import playthrough.

One must bear in mind that the same pool shows 64% have Wreav, and 92% cure the Genophage anyway - which is about the stupidest thing one can do. Seems to me a lot of people out there were thoughtlessly clicking the top of the wheel.

That's exactly the issue you get when you pre-label choices. I personally think that players who can't find out which of the options is a good one (and that's obvious in 95% of the cases) need to deal with that themselves, and the rest 5% of the choices suffer from the system. It's not even consistent. In Legion's loyalty mission, it's Paragon to tell Legion that you won't brainwash the heretics yet later it's the Paragon option to do just that.

In order to play a consistent non-moronic Shepard, you should at least consider some Renegade options in a Paragon playthrough and vice versa.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

@MassivelyEffective, I thonk his point is that the quarians do not have to bear guilt for the Morning War. They are several generations removed from it.

I know that that was his point. What is their fault is their blatant issue of throwing themselves at the Geth in a pointless war that really does nothing for either group. Shepard could have come and paved the way for peace if people like Xen and Gerrel hadn't ****ed up. The Quarians have been waiting for 300 years. They can wait a few more weeks or months for Shepard to get the Geth on board.

[PsyrenY]

Steelcan wrote...

 I think it counts as destroyed.

That sucks... but I guess they have to get people to play ME2 somehow. It's sad that they let you save Wrex and the RQ via comic, but not Eve.

If you build the team out in the comic, will Legion be in ME3 or the VI?

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 11 mai 2013 - 01:22 .

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@MassivelyEffective, I thonk his point is that the quarians do not have to bear guilt for the Morning War. They are several generations removed from it.

I know that that was his point. What is their fault is their blatant issue of throwing themselves at the Geth in a pointless war that really does nothing for either group. Shepard could have come and paved the way for peace if people like Xen and Gerrel hadn't ****ed up. The Quarians have been waiting for 300 years. They can wait a few more weeks or months for Shepard to get the Geth on board.

.  Weve been over this before.  The Reapers forced them into action.