. I think hes counted as sold to Cerberus.Optimystic_X wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
I think it counts as destroyed.
That sucks... but I guess they have to get people to play ME2 somehow. It's sad that they let you save Wrex and the RQ via comic, but not Eve.
If you build the team out in the comic, will Legion be in ME3 or the VI?
Why do people see the Reapers as missunderstood?
Débuté par
masster blaster
, mai 07 2013 03:29
#301
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:24
Steelcan
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Retour en haut
#302
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:36
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
. Weve been over this before. The Reapers forced them into action.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
@MassivelyEffective, I thonk his point is that the quarians do not have to bear guilt for the Morning War. They are several generations removed from it.
I know that that was his point. What is their fault is their blatant issue of throwing themselves at the Geth in a pointless war that really does nothing for either group. Shepard could have come and paved the way for peace if people like Xen and Gerrel hadn't ****ed up. The Quarians have been waiting for 300 years. They can wait a few more weeks or months for Shepard to get the Geth on board.
We've been over this before. No they didn't. That was stupidity on the Admirals part.
#304
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:42
o Ventus
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Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
Modifié par o Ventus, 11 mai 2013 - 01:43 .
#305
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:46
Steelcan
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. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
#306
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:48
o Ventus
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Steelcan wrote...
. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
Yeah, it's "logical" to try and survive by throwing your entire species (including noncombatants) into a war that will only end with the extinction of one of the fighting species (disregarding meta gaming for the peace option).
#307
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:48
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
Desperation that was unfounded. Take Legion to the Flotilla. You can inform the Quarians that Geth are willing to make peace so long as the Quarians don't try to stab them in the back.
Talk to Legion himself. Had the Quarians not attacked the Geth, the Geth would not have joined the Reapers nor been reduced in mental capability. Then Shepard could have brokered an agreement to achieve peace without bloodshed, leaving both fleets completely intact with the Quarian civilians on Rannoch, protected by the Geth and a small Quarian force.
And really, with the Reapers at the doorstep, why waste ships and material against the Geth? You're going to need all the resources you can against the Reapers. The Quarians I blame for being like the Salarians. They're unable to see the real threat, the real problem.
#308
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:51
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
If they're caught anywhere, they're done for, like everybody else. It makes no difference in space or on a planet.
And you're taking Gerrel's words out of context. The last thing you'd want is to have a sky full of panicking civilian ships to block your shots while the Reapers pick everything out and blow it up.
#309
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:51
Steelcan
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. If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
Yeah, it's "logical" to try and survive by throwing your entire species (including noncombatants) into a war that will only end with the extinction of one of the fighting species (disregarding meta gaming for the peace option).
#310
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:54
Steelcan
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Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
If they're caught anywhere, they're done for, like everybody else. It makes no difference in space or on a planet.Steelcan wrote...
. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
And you're taking Gerrel's words out of context. The last thing you'd want is to have a sky full of panicking civilian ships to block your shots while the Reapers pick everything out and blow it up.
#311
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:55
o Ventus
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Steelcan wrote...
If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.
I thought it was an attack borne of desperation?
#312
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:57
o Ventus
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Steelcan wrote...
Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.
Ships that are literally falling apart at the seams and require patches to maintain.
Go win the war for us, guys!
#313
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 01:59
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.
And then it would have been murder on the part of the Quarians. The Geth are *willing* to allow the Quarians to return peacefully. They don't seek conflict with the Quarians. Provided they don't interfere with the Geth, the Quarians can do whatever the hell they want to. It's co-existence.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 11 mai 2013 - 02:02 .
#314
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:01
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
If they're caught anywhere, they're done for, like everybody else. It makes no difference in space or on a planet.Steelcan wrote...
. Gerrel mentions it in ME2. And its a pretty logical train of thought. If the quarians are caught in space they are done for.o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Stupidity born of desperation
The quarians attacking the geth had nothing to do with the Reapers. If it did, we are never told about the connection.
And you're taking Gerrel's words out of context. The last thing you'd want is to have a sky full of panicking civilian ships to block your shots while the Reapers pick everything out and blow it up.
And the action sees their military completely wiped out with a few Reaper casualties, and now all of your civilians are trapped on one world and are completely defenseless. But that's ok, we killed the evil Geth!
#315
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:03
MassivelyEffective0730
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o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.
Ships that are literally falling apart at the seams and require patches to maintain.
Go win the war for us, guys!
Even if the ships weren't falling apart and weren't rickety and shoddy, they'd still have no real chance for prolonged success.
#316
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:05
Steelcan
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. itd be war and thus not murder. It would have just been horribly onesided.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.
And then it would have been murder on the part of the Quarians. The Geth are *willing* to allow the Quarians to return peacefully. They don't seek conflict with the Quarians. Provided they don't interfere with the Geth, the Quarians can do whatever the hell they want to.
If the geth are willing to let the quarians return, why diid Legion stop talking to Tali?
#317
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:07
Steelcan
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. They are supprt ships. Thats the whole reason you recruit them in the first place.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.
Ships that are literally falling apart at the seams and require patches to maintain.
Go win the war for us, guys!
Even if the ships weren't falling apart and weren't rickety and shoddy, they'd still have no real chance for prolonged success.
#318
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:08
o Ventus
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Because plot? EVERYBODY stopped talking to EVERYBODY.Steelcan wrote...
. itd be war and thus not murder. It would have just been horribly onesided.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.
And then it would have been murder on the part of the Quarians. The Geth are *willing* to allow the Quarians to return peacefully. They don't seek conflict with the Quarians. Provided they don't interfere with the Geth, the Quarians can do whatever the hell they want to.
If the geth are willing to let the quarians return, why diid Legion stop talking to Tali?
#319
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:32
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
. itd be war and thus not murder. It would have just been horribly onesided.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
If the Reapers had not intervened the quarians would have won easily. Thete really was not much risk in attacking the geth.
And then it would have been murder on the part of the Quarians. The Geth are *willing* to allow the Quarians to return peacefully. They don't seek conflict with the Quarians. Provided they don't interfere with the Geth, the Quarians can do whatever the hell they want to.
If the geth are willing to let the quarians return, why diid Legion stop talking to Tali?
Tell me you didn't go there. Is there any difference in this circumstance between war and murder? Was it a necessary fight? Did the Geth do anything to provoke the Quarians? No, they didn't. They haven't done anything to provoke the Quarians in 300 years.
That's murder. The Geth *don't*, I repeat *don't* want to fight. The Quarians do. Against any semblance of sane logic, the Quarians attack the Geth. And the Geth are caught off guard because they're getting ready to prepare for the Reapers themselves.
Not only are the Quarians committing murder now, they're also hampering the war effort. I don't see them preparing for the Reapers. I see them as unable to let go of a grudge for the greater good. Maybe not the whole species, but the unstable military commander with the loyalty of his men and some very unstable and sociopathic admiral more interested in testing her inventions. Xen is basically a Dr. Mengele in space. With the combination of these two personalities, along with Raan's own indecisive support.
And it's never specified why Legion and Tali stopped communicating. You're using it as circumstantial evidence. That's a fallacy.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 11 mai 2013 - 02:43 .
#320
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:44
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
. They are supprt ships. Thats the whole reason you recruit them in the first place.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Their ships cant help while loaded with civilians. Offload the civilians and youve got a massive fleet ready for action.
Ships that are literally falling apart at the seams and require patches to maintain.
Go win the war for us, guys!
Even if the ships weren't falling apart and weren't rickety and shoddy, they'd still have no real chance for prolonged success.
And you just said they're ready for action. I'm not pretending they aren't useful. Don't overestimate their utility though.
#321
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:46
Steelcan
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The geth and quarians have been at war with each other the entire time. This is made abundantly clear by the Geth VI.
#322
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 02:50
Steelcan
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By action i meant ready to do their jobs. I could have made that clearer.
#323
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 03:03
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
The geth and quarians have been at war with each other the entire time. This is made abundantly clear by the Geth VI.
Which Legion completely contradicts. You're using the existence of the VI to clarify an argument that is really not much more than a cynical perspective. There is no war or conflict between the Geth and the Quarians. The Geth aren't interested in war. They're interested in creating a future for themselves. They are more than willing to accept the Quarians back to Rannoch. They're even willing to use hardware to assist with working and rebuilding. All they want is to not be killed or destroyed outright and treated with respect. Honestly it seems like you're going out of your way to antagonize the Geth.
#324
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 03:09
Argolas
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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
The geth and quarians have been at war with each other the entire time. This is made abundantly clear by the Geth VI.
Which Legion completely contradicts. You're using the existence of the VI to clarify an argument that is really not much more than a cynical perspective. There is no war or conflict between the Geth and the Quarians. The Geth aren't interested in war. They're interested in creating a future for themselves. They are more than willing to accept the Quarians back to Rannoch. They're even willing to use hardware to assist with working and rebuilding. All they want is to not be killed or destroyed outright and treated with respect. Honestly it seems like you're going out of your way to antagonize the Geth.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Legion steps up the moment the Heretics start threatening the Geth as well while they were accepted before. Other than that, Legion is no longer part of the consensus in ME3, the upgrades made it an individual. The consensus is hostile against anything that threatens their plans and that is anything that enters Geth space. Legion is an exception, first because of pragmatic reasons, then because of his unique state as an independant individual.
#325
Posté 11 mai 2013 - 03:10
MassivelyEffective0730
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Steelcan wrote...
By action i meant ready to do their jobs. I could have made that clearer.
Yes, they can do their job. And they could have accomplished it without re-starting a war with the Geth. Conflict was not necessary. The Quarians made it so.
They can do their job if you make peace. After who knows how many ships (from both sides) of military, utility, and civilian variation destroyed, countless Quarians (who could have contributed to the war effort) killed, even more Geth systems (which increase their intelligence) lost, and a lot of distrust and bad blood engendered.
