402 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

KaiserShep wrote...

Refusing and being indifferent to further understanding the reapers are worlds apart in difference. You have to be a wee bit crazy to not see how.

They may not be the same, but they're definitely not "worlds apart" either. Both are, to some degree, turning away valuable information on your enemy (a.k.a. "intel" -- something you use to win wars) for reasons ranging from ego to hysteria.

[KaiserShep]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Refusing and being indifferent to further understanding the reapers are worlds apart in difference. You have to be a wee bit crazy to not see how.

They may not be the same, but they're definitely not "worlds apart" either. Both are, to some degree, turning away valuable information on your enemy (a.k.a. "intel" -- something you use to win wars) for reasons ranging from ego to hysteria.

Sure they are. Refusal, in this case, means certain death for everyone. Essentially you lose the war completely if you do. I guess this depends on how valuable you consider this information. From what I can tell, it doesn't give you any more of an edge tactically than the crucible itself does. At best, it's a curiosity, and at worst, a perversion of nature. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 mai 2013 - 09:19 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

In principal, the same thing is going one in both, one just has a very different outcome than the other.

Hence why I said, they're not the same, but they're close in other dubious ways.

Why anyone would be indifferent to understanding the enemy they fight if beyond me, especially when you're NOT favored to win. You need whatever you can get your hands on -- intel, resources -- to have any chance to win the war -- beggars can't be choosers. You'd think that those who are so vehemently opposed to the Reapers would have a pragmatic approach to fighting them. I mean, I don't even kill them at the end of the game and still I recognize what must be done.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

[KaiserShep]

When I say I'm indifferent to understanding them, I mean that I fully understand them, but care about nothing else but how to stop them. Given the information available that allows me to do so, all other considerations are not really given much regard.

[Nightwriter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

[teh DRUMPf!!]

In truth, I realized that afterwards a little while afterwards and kind of wanted my post back.


At least, the last part of it. I stand behind the first two statements. I see lots of ego/hysteria from folks.

[TheProtheans]

Doing anything to survive is not a good approach.
Extinction is preferable to submission.

[Wayning_Star]

Nightwriter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

best way to understand some thing is to reverse engineer example..lol

[Nightwriter]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

best way to understand some thing is to reverse engineer example..lol

WHY ARE YOU SO WEIRD.

"The best way to shine a raincloud anymore with to being make the cow bark because Marxism hates January but Elvis lies." There. Annoying, isn't it?!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Nightwriter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

So you'd rather leave the bad robots around? May I point out the "good" robots also nearly exterminated their creators -- there's another thread dealing with this titled "Morning War -- Unjustified?" and that they sided with the reapers not once but twice. This leaves EDI.

I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

There's going to be a post-war economic boom cleaning up and rebuilding.

[AresKeith]

Nightwriter wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

best way to understand some thing is to reverse engineer example..lol

WHY ARE YOU SO WEIRD.

"The best way to shine a raincloud anymore with to being make the cow bark because Marxism hates January but Elvis lies." There. Annoying, isn't it?!

It's best to not think when reading his posts

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

PS: These pro-reaper and pro-geth threads have turned me into a curmudgeon on this subject.

[Astartes Marine]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
So you'd rather leave the bad robots around? May I point out the "good" robots also nearly exterminated their creators -- there's another thread dealing with this titled "Morning War -- Unjustified?" and that they sided with the reapers not once but twice. This leaves EDI.

I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

There's going to be a post-war economic boom cleaning up and rebuilding.

I used to blow them all to hell where they belong, nowadays I would utilize them as cheap labor to help rebuild all that they destroyed including the homeworlds and the damaged relays/citadel. 

Then I'll build up humanity into a powerful new Imperium and some close allies for a new balance of power, get all the technical/medical/military/etc knowledge that the Reapers hold...and then promptly send the Reapers into a star or black hole once they are no longer useful.

Then I'd build myself a new tougher mobile platform so I can have a body again (Shepard has a tendency to abuse those doesn't he?) and sit upon a golden throne on Terra.

[Nightwriter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

You had me up until "kill the bad robots" turned into "kill the good robots."

So you'd rather leave the bad robots around? May I point out the "good" robots also nearly exterminated their creators -- there's another thread dealing with this titled "Morning War -- Unjustified?" and that they sided with the reapers not once but twice. This leaves EDI.

I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

There's going to be a post-war economic boom cleaning up and rebuilding.

It's not your willingness to sacrifice the geth and EDI that gets me so much as your failure to recognize that anything of worth is being sacrificed.

The Morning War is as gray an area as it gets in terms of who was most in the wrong. And the geth as a whole only sided with the Reapers once, not twice. I still didn't like it (too many factions in ME3 seemed to go down the "f*ck past games, must join Reapers" path) but saying that the heretics represented all geth when they threw in with the Reapers is kind of like saying Cerberus represented all humanity when it went full evil with Reaper tech in ME3.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well honestly, I think the writing in the Rannoch Story Arc is about as bad as it gets in the game. The Geth go full retard. The Quarians go full retard. Never go full retard. It was so black or white when there was a third faction right there in front of them the entire time within the Quarians. You had peace or destruction of either. The third faction was Xen who wanted to control. There should have been a way of doing that as well under certain conditions: you destroyed the heretics; cut a deal with her in ME3 before all the blood and gore starts; don't let Legion upload the code (you still get to shoot him if you want); follow through with the deal (Xen, Ra'an, then Tali overrule Gerrel who only takes out 1/2 the Geth). Xen takes control of the rest giving the Quarians 1130 War Assets. No RC upload. Completing the quest in this manner should have opened another quest on the Citadel.

Of course equipment is valuable. It's a real shame it had to be destroyed. Losing a sophisticated computer like EDI will be very difficult to replace, but I don't think anyone is going to be making any AIs in the near future after the war. Especially after Shepard tells them about The Intelligence.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?

You can't kill something that isn't alive. It's equipment. They're machines.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 14 mai 2013 - 12:37 .

[N7Gold]

We never said they were innocent. They are like Cerberus in many ways. Their methods are very crude, but they believe their goals justify their methods. It makes sense when you keep in mind Cerberus' relationship with the Reapers.

"Cerberus is not just an organization or the people behind it, Cerberus is an idea."

They passed down their knowledge to Illusive Man, who has been indoctrinated ever since the end of the First Contact War.

[N7Gold]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?

You can't kill something that isn't alive. It's equipment. They're machines.

THIS is why conflict against machines will always be inevitable. We choose to view them as imitations of life, tools for us to control. Genes don't make us alive, it's our awareness, curiosity and capacity to learn and adapt.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

N7Gold wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?

You can't kill something that isn't alive. It's equipment. They're machines.

THIS is why conflict against machines will always be inevitable. We choose to view them as imitations of life, tools for us to control. Genes don't make us alive, it's our awareness, curiosity and capacity to learn and adapt.

I consider animals alive. So the line the catalyst throws at me that says "in as much as you are an animal" is not an insult. It is a fact. I am a mammal. My species just happens to be at the top of the food chain for now.

Machines are built by us to perform specific tasks. They can be programmed by us to perform specific tasks. They can even be programmed by us to learn and adapt. This does not make them alive. They cannot reproduce or give birth. They will never raise their young. They will assemble other machines from manufactured parts upload an operating system and give it a data file with what it is supposed to do, and it will perform that task from that instant. It is a machine. It is not alive. It may seek improvement through understanding, but it is not alive.

The reapers are machines. The Intelligence is a machine. Those two need two things need to be destroyed. The Geth? While I wish there was a better choice there isn't, and I won't lose sleep over it. The same for EDI.

[TheRealJayDee]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The thing is that at the end of the story, a piece of equipment is dictating the terms. That's right. It's a piece of equipment created by the Leviathans. It turned on them just like the equipment created by the Quarians turned on them. Our job is to erase the reapers. They are the war machines created by the talking piece of equipment at the end. Just do it. Don't even worry about the Geth. They're just equipment with fancy programs. And EDI? You've got a backup VI on the Normandy. Don't worry about it. EDI is a piece of equipment with fancy programming algorithms. They are just machines. They are not alive.

I do not see them as "misunderstood." I see them as machines with fancy programming. I will turn them into scrap metal.

Filthy murderous luddite!! 
 
Y U no have empathy or intellect??

[AlanC9]

[quote]sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?


[/quote]You can't kill something that isn't alive. It's equipment. They're machines.
[/quote]

You humans are all racists!

(someone had to post that)

More seriously, what's your definition of "life"?

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 mai 2013 - 04:30 .

[Nightwriter]

Probably "something with a heartbeat."

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I don't think it's worth worrying about. We have three choices: one destroys the reapers and all other synthetic "life" and you have a good chance of survival. The other two choices leaves the bad robots around along with all synthetic life and you die. The alternative is everyone dies including all your so-called friendly robots. Take your pick. I'd rather just turn them into scrap metal.

Genocide isn't worth worrying about?

You can't kill something that isn't alive. It's equipment. They're machines.

THIS is why conflict against machines will always be inevitable. We choose to view them as imitations of life, tools for us to control. Genes don't make us alive, it's our awareness, curiosity and capacity to learn and adapt.

I consider animals alive. So the line the catalyst throws at me that says "in as much as you are an animal" is not an insult. It is a fact. I am a mammal. My species just happens to be at the top of the food chain for now.

Machines are built by us to perform specific tasks. They can be programmed by us to perform specific tasks. They can even be programmed by us to learn and adapt. This does not make them alive. They cannot reproduce or give birth. They will never raise their young. They will assemble other machines from manufactured parts upload an operating system and give it a data file with what it is supposed to do, and it will perform that task from that instant. It is a machine. It is not alive. It may seek improvement through understanding, but it is not alive.

The reapers are machines. The Intelligence is a machine. Those two need two things need to be destroyed. The Geth? While I wish there was a better choice there isn't, and I won't lose sleep over it. The same for EDI.

Making new synthetics sounds like reproduction to me.

A lot of animals don't give birth to their young. Not all animals raise their young either.