402 réponses à ce sujet

[Auld Wulf]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Find my reasoning for why the Reapers are as much victims of the cycle as the species they were made of in this thread.

Any Reaper is not more or less "good or innocent" than the species it was made of. Harbinger was made from the leviathans.... However, what they are not is responsible for the cycle. See the linked thread for more details.

Yep, I agree. Though I think that most are good as they don't decide to wage war or run off once they've been freed in Synthesis, they stick around to make reparations and try to undo the evil that they were forced to unleash upon the galaxy. That tells me a lot about their strength of character. Each Reaper is going to have its own reasons for doing it, but that they make this decision Universally tells me that there's more good, upstanding, ethical Reapers than not.

But I agree with you, and I think there might be some peer pressure invovled, as even the less benefactorial Reapers wouldn't want to annoy the majority (that'd put them in fairly hot water). So there seems to be some rule or hierarchy of peace present. A nuanced one, but one that we can trust. I'm just not going to objectify them with some kind of hate fetish, I'm not going to turn them into some faceless thing for me to kill. I'm not that mentally disturbed.

[masster blaster]

You see the Reapers as just commen tools, yet they are not. They aid the catalyst, and I do believe they can fight back against their creator, but I think it's because of the power that the races now have. The ability to enslave other organics to their will, immortality, and more. Why do you think in Control Renegade Shepard sounds like he's going to be evil soon? Because of the power he/she has now. The feeling that you are a god, and since in control Shepard is the leader of the Reapers, if Renegade Shepard, then ya what do you think is going to happen.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 mai 2013 - 12:37 .

[Saito404]

Because some people on BSN are wierd. They love Cerberus, Geth, even Reapers, Controll, Synthesis. We will never understand why.

[Auld Wulf]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...
I'd say the reapers were gushing with hubris. I mean why else would Harby constantly tell me that his attacks will tear me apart?

Because they would? :?Most people do get torn apart if shot by a Reaper.

Not only that, but... um... psychological warfare? He's trying to break down Shepard's will to make her easier to deal with. That's 101 of war, right there. If you can break your enemy's resolve, then you don't have to kill them, as you can have them surrender. If Harbinger could have broken Shepard, it meant that he'd be able to harvest the biggest enemy the Reapers have ever known.

Psychological warfare was likely a Leviathan tool, which then became a Catalyst tool, which the Reapers were then forced to use. It's the same reason they have husks -- it's to terrify people into submission. The husks won't kill an unarmed person, this is mentioned in ME3 and the comics many times. They'll just round you up and take you to a harvesting centre, as this is the goal of the Catalyst -- to harvest, not to kill. Every time you can mentally break an opponent, they become easy meat for the harvest. Think about it. It makes sense.

Plus, it's good storytelling. It means that you're waging a mental battle with the Reapers all the time. And no, I'm not talking about indoctrination here, I'm talking about their horror tactics in general. To the sound military mind, defeating your opponent's spirit so that you don't have to kill them makes more sense. War is best ended with the least amount of lives lost, as any veteran will tell you.

[masster blaster]

Do you honestly think every Reaper is good? Ha. Nazara, and Harbinger are shown as evil. Those organic minds have let the power, and the feeling that they are gods cloud their morals. It's a million minds for one Reaper, vs the intellegnece. How does one mind control all, if one does not have the ablity to indoctrinate? A synthetic can control a synthetic, but a hybrid that is both synthetic, and organic...come on. The catalyst up most controls the body, but the mind, an organic mind that has millions of minds in one?

[masster blaster]

Why would the catalyst, and the Reapers then not kill Shepard Wolf? If this is warfare that they are using, then why not kill Shepard, at the end like any other time in the game can happen? Honestly why? The catalyst doesn't know what the crucible can do yet, nor does any other Reaper. If you say it does, then why do they keep trying to destroy the crucible in every cycle, if they know what it does/ is?

[Astartes Marine]

I write the over-sympathy off as some people are just bleeding hearts.

For a long time I looked at them as simply an enemy that needed to be destroyed. Nowadays I look at them as tools that can be used and then discarded into the nearest star when their usefulness has run out. See my sig for an idea of why...

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 07 mai 2013 - 12:47 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

*shrugs* Tentacle fetish?

[masster blaster]

Over all what the Reapers are just tools, yet they express free speech, the right to think, they express independent actions that reflect their race. If the Reaper are programmd just do work for the catalyst, then the Reapers shouldn't talk, try to comuicate with any organic, and synthetic, and just enslave those organics, and harvest them, yet the Reapers don't do this.

[Astartes Marine]

masster blaster wrote...
Over all what the Reapers are just tools, yet they express free speech, the right to think, they express independent actions that reflect their race. If the Reaper are programmd just do work for the catalyst, then the Reapers shouldn't talk, try to comuicate with any organic, and synthetic, and just enslave those organics, and harvest them, yet the Reapers don't do this.

I don't see them as mindless drones, more like thralls.  Remember the people affected by the Thorian?  They have free will, up to a point.  Still tools to be used, just tools that walk and talk. 

I've no sympathy for them or anyone who supports them, but I can understand how useful the Reapers could be.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 07 mai 2013 - 12:55 .

[masster blaster]

Yes everything the Reapers do is just warfare, but were they programmed to do warfare, or does the catalyst fight their battles for them? You have Harbinger who is the catalyst's first creation, and most likely his general, and the Reapers are harvesting, and killing the advance organic life. The Reapers turn loved ones into enemys, they destroy familys either by indoctrination, with their laser beam canons, or by their husk army. To what point does harvesting become warfare to the Reapers? To what point does a Reaper who has the minds of millions of organics take a stand and fight the catalyst's control? Saren TIM, and Kenson are just ONE organic, and are indoctrinated, and at least for Saren, and TIM have implants. They fought and killed themselves, yet why can't the Reapers? Oh they are controlled by the catalyst, well so are all indoctrinated agents right, or does the Reaper that indoctrinated control them, that is controlled by the catalyst?

[mumba]

Greylycantrope wrote...

*shrugs* Tentacle fetish?

Hehe

[masster blaster]

Useful? The Reapers are not. Why would you find them useful. Oh they are powerful, and they have vast information. Ya at the end of ME3 with just one push of a trigger on a gun you can kill those useful Reapers. With just a hand full of ships you can destroy one Reaper. Honestly the Reapers have used up their usefulness ever since they were created. Born from an idea that organics must be harvested to be saved, yet the catalyst has lost so many organic races from the cycles that waged war on it, and the Reapers. Why would I need the Reapers to do my dirty work, or why do I need the Reapers to enforce galatic law on everyone. If I control the Reapers, I am no better than the catalyst. Uses the Reapers to my own end, for what. Everything that the Reapers can do, the organics, and synthetics can do to. I see no point in letting those organics trapped inside of the Reaper be used for someones ends.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 mai 2013 - 01:24 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Auld Wulf wrote...

But the story where the Reapers are faceless, plotless Space Invaders is tremendously boring. Thus, those people who actually want something that one-dimensional are boring. No imagination. None.

At least these unimaginative folk have a decent grasp on reality. 

[masster blaster]

So people think the Reapers are innocent just because they are controlled, ya but like I keep saying, if they are just controlled, like TIM, Saren, and so many others, then why not fight? It's a million minds vs one, if the catalyst was fused with Harbinger, then I can see why, but it's not the case. Like I have said in my last few post. It's because of the power, the immortality they now have. Once they were afraid of becoming a Reaper, now they love it. Also if the catalyst was just controlling them, and in synthesis each Reaper is free, then it means all minds are not one anymore, it means any races that was evil before they became a Reaper is now free on the loose, it means Harbinger a LEVIATHAN the most powerful Reaper is now FREE. I doubt Harbinger is just going to love this all, for it's a Leviathan, and the LEVIATHANS want to regain their position as the masters of the galaxy.

[AlexMBrennan]

Over all what the Reapers are just tools, yet they express free speech, the right to think, they express independent actions that reflect their race. If the Reaper are programmd just do work for the catalyst, then the Reapers shouldn't talk, try to comuicate with any organic, and synthetic, and just enslave those organics, and harvest them, yet the Reapers don't do this.

How do you know this? How do you know that Godchild isn't "role playing" a dozen different Reaper personalities and making the mindless tools act accordingly?

[masster blaster]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

But the story where the Reapers are faceless, plotless Space Invaders is tremendously boring. Thus, those people who actually want something that one-dimensional are boring. No imagination. None.

At least these unimaginative folk have a decent grasp on reality. 

And giving the Reapers a green card from all the crimes against the galaxy is just as boring too. It's cheap. You have this Race of hybrids that are bent on Harvesting, and destroying all organic life, and you just make them slaves? Honest really it's cheap.

[masster blaster]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Over all what the Reapers are just tools, yet they express free speech, the right to think, they express independent actions that reflect their race. If the Reaper are programmd just do work for the catalyst, then the Reapers shouldn't talk, try to comuicate with any organic, and synthetic, and just enslave those organics, and harvest them, yet the Reapers don't do this.

How do you know this? How do you know that Godchild isn't "role playing" a dozen different Reaper personalities and making the mindless tools act accordingly?

Um because if that was the case, then wow Nazara's prespective of organics, and synthetics, must have changed at the end of ME3 because wow what the catalyst says is way diffrent then what the catalyst tells us. Oh all Reapers view organics as beneth them, but the catalyst wishes to help organics. Oh it's not like the Reapers use synthetics to kill organics, that goes AGAINST the catalyst logic?!

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 mai 2013 - 01:23 .

[masster blaster]

If the catalyst is controlling, and assuming direct control over each then it disproves it's own logic. Synthetics killing organics is the Reason why it trys to stop this conflict, yet in Javik's cycle, as well as this cycle both synthetics were USED by the Reapers to KILL/ fight the organics. Warefare staratagy yes, but it just disprove it's own logic. It harvests organic life to protect organics from synthetics, only to use synthetics to kill organics.

[knightnblu]

[Inappropriate post removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 07 mai 2013 - 08:14 .

[dorktainian]

Auld Wulf wrote...

You lack understanding of the lore, OP, and thus you misrepresent them.

      

roflmao.    

so the reapers are not mass murdering machines then?  So the 50,000 year cycle is a good thing then?
Would you serve the reapers?  I guess you would.

[KaiserShep]

Eh, it doesn't matter. If giant hybrid robots really were trying to wipe us out, all the people harping on considering their possible subjugation right now would be happy enough to see them die instead.

[Kel Riever]

OP: Isn't it because when having a blender turn your body into a shake of blood and flesh jello that can be sipped through a straw, it is really important to make sure we all know the blender didn't mean it.

[TheProtheans]

dorktainian wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

You lack understanding of the lore, OP, and thus you misrepresent them.

      

roflmao.    

so the reapers are not mass murdering machines then?  So the 50,000 year cycle is a good thing then?
Would you serve the reapers?  I guess you would.

The Reapers are victims of the cycle as well.
We should be able to live in peace with the Reaper.