402 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Therein, your argument allows for the possibility they're freed.

But your argument relies upon it. If that is the case, you're standing on shaky ground.

[edisnooM]

To begin I'm not trying to attack anyone's interpretation or view on ME, hope it doesn't come across that way, just presenting my own view on the matter.

I never at any point in the series got the impression that we would ever be "friends" or get along with the Reapers in any way shape or form. After witnessing everything that they have done, they seem firmly encamped in villain territory. The first mission in the series has Reaper forces shoving humans onto spikes (something apparently put in place to make the Geth seem more "evil"). And as ME1 progresses we see their corruptive influence, they drive people insane, take control of their minds, and when we finally meet Sovereign he has absolutely no regard for us "lesser" life at all, viewing it as insignificant and beneath him.

Then in ME2 we have them abducting colonists, then they unleash a plague, then we find out the Collectors are hollowed out shells of Protheans, their species robbed of it's "soul" and enslaved for the last 50,000 years. Also on the Collector Ship we have piles of dead bodies, just left lying there. Then we find out that the Reapers are apparently corruptive by their very nature, a dead one still capable of driving people mad. And then we finally get to the Collector base and we find out what they're doing with the colonists, they're melting them down while they're still alive. No aesthetic, quick knock on the head, nothing. Apparently it had to be fear sweat. Then they're sucked up a giant straw and dumped in a Reaper shell.

And then we get to ME3, and the Reaper horrors are turned up to 11. In addition to all the burning of worlds and what not, we have Batarians with humans grafted all over them (and for a gun arm I believe). Turians and Krogan being cut up and stitched back together, and whatever it is they do to make Marauders and Banshees. And that's just what we see, Javik tells us they did worse in his cycle, of particular note the fact that they used child soldiers.

So at no point after seeing all that, and at no point in any of the conversations with the Reapers did I get the slightest impression that they were "good" or at least "not evil", or had any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Nor did I have any impression that they were being forced in any way to do what they did. They were malevolent eldritch nightmares, the monsters in the dark spaces.

This is one of the (many) problems I had with the end, it truly seemed like they were trying to pull a twist of "they were doing it for you" in the final 5-10 minutes of a three game trilogy that had nothing building towards such a point. One other thing of note is that the Catalyst never actually says they are being forced to do anything, but if they were trying to insinuate that it again falls completely flat with everything that came before.


Anywho, just my thoughts on the matter.

[The Night Mammoth]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You realize that my claim does not, in any way, contradict what we are shown in the Sync ending, right?

It does not, therefore, make up anything new.

It does, however, very plausibly fill in a gap (that gap being, what's up with the Reapers in Sync?)

What's the difference? It doesn't contradict anything but that doesn't stop it from being something you've assumed. 

That's your perogative, but it's not 'obvious' by any stretch of the imagination.

LOL. Not by any stretch of the imagination?? Give me a break.

Just because you can't fathom something, it doesn't make said thing any less obvious. There are some idiots who insist Shepard is dead in the Destroy breath-scene because they can't fathom them being alive, but I'd dare to guess the author's intent is that he/she lives. Likewise, I don't need to be explicitly told what happens to the Reapers in Sync.

BTW, I know of plenty of people (pro-Sync and otherwise) who've came to the same conclusion as I have.

Perhaps you can't stretch your imagination too far, but plenty others can/have.

What's so imaginitve about your preferred situation, exactly? What can't I fathom? I understand what you're talking about, but understanding doesn't preclude agreement. 

[18Drex]

I feel like EdisnooM And the Host of this thread are the only people who get it...

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You realize that my claim does not, in any way, contradict what we are shown in the Sync ending, right?

It does not, therefore, make up anything new.

It does, however, very plausibly fill in a gap (that gap being, what's up with the Reapers in Sync?)

What's the difference? It doesn't contradict anything but that doesn't stop it from being something you've assumed.

The difference is that my interpretation is not contradicting anything on the screen.

Therein, it is not "made-up" or "new." It's interpretation (of the events we can clearly see).

And in that, even without any clear-cut canon explanation, I would make a pretty strong wager that mine is right (what the author intended) and folks who say otherwise are flat-out wrong in theirs.

What's so imaginitve about your preferred situation, exactly? What can't I fathom? I understand what you're talking about, but understanding doesn't preclude agreement.

You're the one who declared it "not obvious by any stretch of the imagination."

I know it's not made explicitly clear, but I have no clue how my take on it is so unimaginable.

I found my explanation to be a very simple one that has no real agreement-issues with what is shown to us.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 08 mai 2013 - 01:37 .

[Indy_S]

What part of our interpretation contradicts what we see? Nothing says the Reapers are freed.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Indy_S wrote...

What part of our interpretation contradicts what we see? Nothing says the Reapers are freed.

Oh I'm sure he knows that, but since he likes the other view there is obviously no way that any other interpertation can be valid.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 08 mai 2013 - 01:53 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Indy_S wrote...

What part of our interpretation contradicts what we see? Nothing says the Reapers are freed.

1.) Nothing says they are *not* free.
2.) Thematic sense.

Let me explain #2. Take everything at face-value. Sync is supposed to be the solution to all synthetic-organic conflict. We see it take place. Everyone is living happily along side each other. Everyone is working together. EDI indicates that either synthetics and organics are coexisting peacefully, or they project favorably to do so (depending on the outcome at Rannoch).

Now we have two options with the status of the Reapers: (A) they are free entities, one with the rest of the galaxy, enjoying the same benefits of this galactic-peace; ( they are still shacked servents to their AI overlord.

Which of these two options fits the most thematically with Sync? And there *is* a right answer.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

What part of our interpretation contradicts what we see? Nothing says the Reapers are freed.

Oh I'm sure he knows that, but since he likes the other view there is obviously no way that any other interpertation can be right.

Thank you for that insightful contribution. Clearly folks like Auld_Wulf are the problem, not you.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

HYR 2.0 wrote...




Thank you for that insightful contribution. Clearly folks like Auld_Wulf are the problem, not you.

Oh you know you love it.

[The Night Mammoth]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

What's the difference? It doesn't contradict anything but that doesn't stop it from being something you've assumed.

The difference is that my interpretation is not contradicting anything on the screen.

Therein, it is not "made-up" or "new." It's interpretation (of the events we can clearly see).

And in that, even without any clear-cut canon explanation, I would make a pretty strong wager that mine is right (what the author intended) and folks who say otherwise are flat-out wrong in theirs.

Author's intent is irrelevant, and none of that prevents it from being an assumption.

That doesn't mean other alternatives are any less so. 

What's so imaginitve about your preferred situation, exactly? What can't I fathom? I understand what you're talking about, but understanding doesn't preclude agreement.

You're the one who declared it "not obvious by any stretch of the imagination."

I know it's not made explicitly clear, but I have no clue how my take on it is so unimaginable.

I found my explanation to be a very simple one that has no real agreement-issues with what is shown to us.

Hyperbole, I admit. I don't think your interpretation lacks imagination or merit, I simply don't think it's that clear cut and I just don't care for it personally, but then I don't care for Synthesis in general so I also admit a little bias. 

[AresKeith]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

What part of our interpretation contradicts what we see? Nothing says the Reapers are freed.

Oh I'm sure he knows that, but since he likes the other view there is obviously no way that any other interpertation can be right.

Thank you for that insightful contribution. Clearly folks like Auld_Wulf are the problem, not you.

You mean people that tries to act like they're superior to others and insults them, then yes

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AresKeith wrote...

You mean people that tries to act like they're superior to others and insults them, then yes

Well, you can add one more to the list.

[AresKeith]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

You mean people that tries to act like they're superior to others and insults them, then yes

Well, you can add one more to the list.

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

[Enhanced]

edisnooM wrote...

So at no point after seeing all that, and at no point in any of the conversations with the Reapers did I get the slightest impression that they were "good" or at least "not evil", or had any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Nor did I have any impression that they were being forced in any way to do what they did. They were malevolent eldritch nightmares, the monsters in the dark spaces.

The Catalyst said he controls them.

Modifié par Enhanced, 08 mai 2013 - 02:26 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AresKeith wrote...

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

I'd say Grand Admiral Cheesecake's post fits the bill of "superior" and "insulting."

Excuse me if I don't buy the ":P" post that came after it.

[Wayning_Star]

the reaperships are not misunderstood, they are NOT understood at all, apparently?

The catalyst tells Shepard that synthesis will indeed 'reconnect' the stored harvested with the rest of the MEU. That is a fact of the story. The catalyst also states that synthesis is considered a 'final evolution' but doesn't state who's final evolution that is for sure. Many assume it's organic, but the vague nature of information in the story does not inspire confidence, but includes suspicion of the catalyst, with that statement. It refers to synthetic evolution included with organic evolution. As if they're one and the same. Synthesis is the ultimate "tool" to offset nature, or it's chaos that inevitably destroys what is created. << machine logic trying to get a handle on nature/space as it related to intelligence/intellect as that exists as "self". Nature doesn't have "self"... or so it seems..lol

[Wayning_Star]

the catalyst theme song..

[AresKeith]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

I'd say Grand Admiral Cheesecake's post fits the bill of "superior" and "insulting."

Excuse me if I don't buy the ":P" post that came after it.

Then you obviously don't see many of his posts

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

I'd say Grand Admiral Cheesecake's post fits the bill of "superior" and "insulting."

Excuse me if I don't buy the ":P" post that came after it.

Then you obviously don't see many of his posts

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

[spirosz]

I FEEL THE LOVE.

[Wayning_Star]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

I'd say Grand Admiral Cheesecake's post fits the bill of "superior" and "insulting."

Excuse me if I don't buy the ":P" post that came after it.

Then you obviously don't see many of his posts

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

then to 'top that off', bioware writers includes the star gazer scene that... explains everything... no matter what.

but then, the story must of started there,eh?

[Wayning_Star]

spirosz wrote...

I FEEL THE LOVE.

if the right one don't get'cha then the left one will..

[AresKeith]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Why because I told the truth about people who's on both sides who acts like that?

I'd say Grand Admiral Cheesecake's post fits the bill of "superior" and "insulting."

Excuse me if I don't buy the ":P" post that came after it.

Then you obviously don't see many of his posts

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

Which would be?

[dreamgazer]

Man, you guys are so testy.