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[Argolas]

Considering that the Reapers are created through mass genocide, it is clear that they should never have existed.

[spirosz]

Argolas wrote...

Considering that the Reapers are created through mass genocide, it is clear that they should never have existed.

Because of their past acts?  No matter how horrible (I'm not arguing that the cycle aren't horrible), but based on what is shown in Synthesis - their "freewill" means no harm to anyone else - which can be subjective for the future (obviously, one can still "choose" to act agressive now), but based off the slides - they decide for themselves to help rebuild the galaxy.  Maybe it's just because everything is part synthetic in a sense, who knows, only they know now.

I still choose destroy though.

[spirosz]

For example, you can headcannon that certain Reapers decide to fall back in their old habits after viewing what immense power they wield to the rest of the universe and it turns into another galactic war, depending on how many - or you can choose to headcannon the future (not what is shown in the slides) as it always staying in that Utopian state, regardless of what it does to universe, if it stagnates, no more "advancements" whatever, those possibilities are up to the player.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

Which would be?

Which would be, if you voice any opinion not pro-Destroy or anti-ending you get harassed, ridiculed, called names.

Ninja Stan editted it, but a guy ITT compared non-Destroyers to Nazis. If that were Auld_Wulf, it would be jumped on.

Since it was not an attack on Destroyers/anti-enders, no one cares. I had to bring attention to it (and still no one cares).

[dreamgazer]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Ninja Stan editted it, but a guy ITT compared non-Destroyers to Nazis. If that were Auld_Wulf, it would be jumped on.

*cough*

[AresKeith]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

Which would be?

Which would be, if you voice any opinion not pro-Destroy or anti-ending you get harassed, ridiculed, called names.

Ninja Stan editted it, but a guy ITT compared non-Destroyers to Nazis. If that were Auld_Wulf, it would be jumped on.

Since it was not an attack on Destroyers/anti-enders, no one cares. I had to bring attention to it (and still no one cares).

While its true that people do that, you still have to consider that people on the other side also do it

like Auld_Wulf for example, he once had a blog bashing Ninja Stan

[Wayning_Star]

Argolas wrote...

Considering that the Reapers are created through mass genocide, it is clear that they should never have existed.

why do you hate the big bang theory?

[spirosz]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

Which would be?

Which would be, if you voice any opinion not pro-Destroy or anti-ending you get harassed, ridiculed, called names.

Ninja Stan editted it, but a guy ITT compared non-Destroyers to ****s. If that were Auld_Wulf, it would be jumped on.

Since it was not an attack on Destroyers/anti-enders, no one cares. I had to bring attention to it (and still no one cares).

It was an attack on Destroyers and he's made a blog about "anti-intellectual ghettos" that relate to people who choose Destroy and how he likes to express his intellect being above others. In no way shape or form, can he judge another person's perspective and try to understand them, when he's never walked in their shoes and been shaped the way they have through experiences of life and what values they carry - and this has to be the same type of respect that Wulf should get, since I don't know what he's gone through, nor do I care, but I don't act like I am any better than another because I interpret said "material" differently then he does. I've read many times and actually agree with certain aspects he has on Synthesis, but I can't stand the way he expresses himself, so I can't take a lot of his written words seriously.

Oh Pans Labyrinth.

Modifié par spirosz, 08 mai 2013 - 03:16 .

[Steelcan]

@HYR 2.0, are there destroyers and non destroyers who act in an uncivil manner? Yes. I can only speak for myself, but I refrain from personal attacks on people's intelligence or mental health.

[Wayning_Star]

spirosz wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

No, but I've seen enough of how the dominant-opinion group here acts towards people with outside opinions.

Which would be?

Which would be, if you voice any opinion not pro-Destroy or anti-ending you get harassed, ridiculed, called names.

Ninja Stan editted it, but a guy ITT compared non-Destroyers to ****s. If that were Auld_Wulf, it would be jumped on.

Since it was not an attack on Destroyers/anti-enders, no one cares. I had to bring attention to it (and still no one cares).

It was an attack on Destroyers and he's made a blog about "anti-intellectual ghettos" that relate to people who choose Destroy and how he likes to express his intellect being above others. In no way shape or form, can he judge another person's perspective and try to understand them, when he's never walked in their shoes and been shaped the way they have through experiences of life and what values they carry - and this has to be the same type of respect that Wulf should get, since I don't know what he's gone through, nor do I care, but I don't act like I am any better than another because I interpret said "material" differently then he does. I've read many times and actually agree with certain aspects he has on Synthesis, but I can't stand the way he expresses himself, so I can't take a lot of his written words seriously.

Oh Pans Labyrinth.

Pans Labyrinth is probably where Bioware hid the canon ending to ME.. I know that's where ME# is..lol

[Argolas]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Considering that the Reapers are created through mass genocide, it is clear that they should never have existed.

why do you hate the big bang theory?

Making no sense at all as usual, are we?

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

@HYR 2.0, are there destroyers and non destroyers who act in an uncivil manner? Yes. I can only speak for myself, but I refrain from personal attacks on people's intelligence or mental health.

I dunno, I think I still have a few bruises....

[Wayning_Star]

Argolas wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Considering that the Reapers are created through mass genocide, it is clear that they should never have existed.

why do you hate the big bang theory?

Making no sense at all as usual, are we?

think build and destroy, as an integral part of nature, now think of survival as what that means with the technology in the MEU. How does that relate to the big bang theory of 'creation'. How would an organic intelligence gone "entity" or being associate/identify with that?

We destroy what we are? Why created stuff that you 'must' destroy if you need it? Just because they're mechanical geth...

Cannot 'dehumanize' Geth, as they're not human, but we CAN dehumanize ourselves, because of 'them'....

[Argolas]

Nature doesn't turn industrially herd and turn people.

[spirosz]

Argolas wrote...

Nature doesn't turn industrially herd and turn people.

Andrew Ryan disagrees. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You don't have to convince me of anything about Wulf. I've called him out both publicly and privately (PM).

Thing is, there are many Wulfs that go unnoticed/get no grief because they're not attacking "the majority."

So, as someone outside said majority, I can tell you we deal with about 10x the Wulfs as you guys do.

[spirosz]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You don't have to convince me of anything about Wulf. I've called him out both publicly and privately (PM).

Thing is, there are many Wulfs that go unnoticed/get no grief because they're not attacking "the majority."

So, as someone outside said majority, I can tell you we deal with about 10x the Wulfs as you guys do.

There's always the individuals that stick out, that is a fact.  And I do agree, that people in favour of Synthesis, get the worst end of the stick.  Control people are just there and Destroyers tend to be louder and more agressive, at least how I view it. 

[Indy_S]

 

HYR 2.0 wrote...

1.) Nothing says they are *not* free.
2.) Thematic sense.

Let me explain #2. Take everything at face-value. Sync is supposed to be the solution to all synthetic-organic conflict. We see it take place. Everyone is living happily along side each other. Everyone is working together. EDI indicates that either synthetics and organics are coexisting peacefully, or they project favorably to do so (depending on the outcome at Rannoch).

Now we have two options with the status of the Reapers: (A) they are free entities, one with the rest of the galaxy, enjoying the same benefits of this galactic-peace; ( they are still shacked servents to their AI overlord.

Which of these two options fits the most thematically with Sync? And there *is* a right answer.

The theme of mutual cooperation says nothing of freedom. I'd like to reword those options you gave: (A) they are released and forced to rely on their own perceptions with a history of hubris behind them; ( they remain the useful tools they always were.

Nothing about the Catalyst would suggest it is willing to let go of its control. It does not value lives, it values life. If it believes it can coordinate the Reapers to improve or save the life of the galaxy, it would not release control. Freedom is not efficient. Everything they do relies upon the Catalyst; if it is benevolent, we see cooperation and if it is malevolent, we see conflict. The size of the resulting conflict has the potential to wipe advanced life from the galaxy. Giving such power to a single individual is unwise.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

spirosz wrote...

There's always the individuals that stick out, that is a fact.  And I do agree, that people in favour of Synthesis, get the worst end of the stick.  Control people are just there and Destroyers tend to be louder and more agressive, at least how I view it.

And usually I'm content to ignore, SMH, walk away, or just laugh.

Not this time. I'm not easily offended, so the fact that I found a post offensive is... kind of saying something.

If you guys get to dogpile Seival's threads, I get to engage HYR's rhetorical-smackdown at the trolls in this one. Fair enough?

[Indy_S]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If you guys get to dogpile Seival's threads, I get to engage HYR's rhetorical-smackdown at the trolls in this one. Fair enough?

Yeah, that's fair.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Indy_S wrote...

The theme of mutual cooperation says nothing of freedom. I'd like to reword those options you gave: (A) they are released and forced to rely on their own perceptions with a history of hubris behind them; ( they remain the useful tools they always were.

Even with that reframing applied, ( is not thematically-compatible with Sync.

The root of all organic-synthetic conflict is control, limits on freedom.

The Reapers can't remain shackled in Sync w/o compromising the thematic integrity of the ending. Just can't. It's all or nothing in terms of how far you go with accepting synthetic life (Reapers do not get to be a convenient exception).

Nothing about the Catalyst would suggest it is willing to let go of its control. It does not value lives, it values life. If it believes it can coordinate the Reapers to improve or save the life of the galaxy, it would not release control. Freedom is not efficient. Everything they do relies upon the Catalyst; if it is benevolent, we see cooperation and if it is malevolent, we see conflict. The size of the resulting conflict has the potential to wipe advanced life from the galaxy. Giving such power to a single individual is unwise.

Suffice it to say, I think your assesment of the Catalst is way off the mark.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 08 mai 2013 - 04:01 .

[Wayning_Star]

spirosz wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Nature doesn't turn industrially herd and turn people.

Andrew Ryan Evolution disagrees. 

strike through for clarity?

[Indy_S]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

The theme of mutual cooperation says nothing of freedom. I'd like to reword those options you gave: (A) they are released and forced to rely on their own perceptions with a history of hubris behind them; ( they remain the useful tools they always were.

Even with that reframing applied, ( is not thematically-compatible with Sync.

The root of all organic-synthetic conflict is control, limits on freedom.

The Reapers can't remain shackled in Sync w/o compromising the thematic integrity of the ending. Just can't. It's all or nothing in terms of how far you go with accepting synthetic life (Reapers do not get to be a convenient exception).

I actually do agree with you that it makes thematic sense but I disagree that thematic sense is the priority for interpreting the scenario. It makes sense to the handyman in me that you don't throw away useful tools just because the job at hand is done. Freedom is contrary to that notion.

Nothing about the Catalyst would suggest it is willing to let go of its control. It does not value lives, it values life. If it believes it can coordinate the Reapers to improve or save the life of the galaxy, it would not release control. Freedom is not efficient. Everything they do relies upon the Catalyst; if it is benevolent, we see cooperation and if it is malevolent, we see conflict. The size of the resulting conflict has the potential to wipe advanced life from the galaxy. Giving such power to a single individual is unwise.

Suffice it to say, I think your assesment of the Catalst is way off the mark.

Fair enough.

[edisnooM]

Enhanced wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

So at no point after seeing all that, and at no point in any of the conversations with the Reapers did I get the slightest impression that they were "good" or at least "not evil", or had any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Nor did I have any impression that they were being forced in any way to do what they did. They were malevolent eldritch nightmares, the monsters in the dark spaces.

The Catalyst said he controls them.

Sorry just noticed this. He does indeed say that, but he doesn't say they are forced to carry out the acts they do. Further what most of my post was addressing (or attempting to) is that prior to the infamous final moments of the trilogy there had been nothing to indicate that the Reapers were "not evil" or being forced to Reap, and certainly nothing in our (or at least my) interaction with any of the Reapers or their forces gave that impression.

[Argolas]

Wayning_Star wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Nature doesn't turn industrially herd and turn people.

Andrew Ryan Evolution disagrees. 

strike through for clarity?

You're downplaying terror.