89 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Maybe you should consider that ME 3, as far as I know, is the only game in existence to include speaking roles for characters not directly tied to DLC. The only one. No other game has companions comment on the events. And as I far as I know, no other game offers offers any kind of explanation as why. It's the norm. ME 3 is the exception.

Grand Theft Auto IV.

The Lost and the Damned.

The Ballad of Gay Tony.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

No, it wasn't. Presentation does not fix faulty fundamentals.

Yes it was. Don't try to tell me what I think is right or wrong. 

And it's vice versa. A decent story can be skewered by a crap presentation.

[David7204]

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm telling you what's right. Presentation doesn't fix faulty fundamentals.

You complained Omega was a 'chore.' You think fixing a bug or two would have turned it into something great? Turned the experience around?

Consider a game like New Vegas. That's not a bad presentation? Overflowing with bugs, mediocre voice acting, plenty of dull and repetitive environments, ho-hum gameplay. Pretty much exactly what you listed. Does New Vegas get an 'F'?

Modifié par David7204, 07 mai 2013 - 06:46 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm telling you what's right. Presentation doesn't fix faulty fundamentals.

You complained Omega was a 'chore.' You think fixing a bug or two would have turned it into something great? Turned the experience around?

Yes. But I think having a different style of gameplay, with a different level design, with a different enemy than just more Cerberus mooks, with a more active environment, and a louder score, and more enthusiasm from some of the voice actors might. 

As is, there's really nothing going on within the game at all. It's too gameplay and direct action oriented. There isn't enough story, enough plot, enough of anything really. It's just go into one room and kill mooks, to go to the next room and kill mooks, hear Aria say something about something, then go into another room, go up an elevator, and kill mooks. That's the problem. There is a story, and a good one beneath all of that. But it's chore to have constantly play through room after room and wave after wave of mooks to get it.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 07 mai 2013 - 06:51 .

[KaiserShep]

For me, it didn't add any meaningful insight into the characters. Aria was left unchanged, Petrovsky was a boring caricature, the combat was so-so. I'd be willing to upgrade it to C because of the good biotic attacks and weapons. Despite all the action, it just doesn't feel as fun as it could've been. They could at least give better variety in Cerberus foot soldiers. Another problem is that sparing Petrovsky gets you nothing but 30 WA points. An interview with him about Cerberus and TIM would've made a huge difference. On top of that, its kind of pricey for what you get.

[Ticonderoga117]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Eh, even with the Normandy we'd have just ended up getting close to the station and deploying in the shuttle anyway. It would have been fun to bring Aria on the Normandy for a little while though and have her comment on various things.

True, but all I'm really asking for was a more thought out reasoning. Like: "We plan on using a very small stealth shuttle to ferry a small team in and there's only one slot" or something. Is that perfect? No, but more believable than that.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

KaiserShep wrote...

For me, it didn't add any meaningful insight into the characters. Aria was left unchanged, Petrovsky was a boring caricature, the combat was so-so. I'd be willing to upgrade it to C because of the good biotic attacks and weapons. Despite all the action, it just doesn't feel as fun as it could've been. They could at least give better variety in Cerberus foot soldiers. Another problem is that sparing Petrovsky gets you nothing but 30 WA points. An interview with him about Cerberus and TIM would've made a huge difference. On top of that, its kind of pricey for what you get.

All of this is true to an extent.

Omega had a lot of potential. It had a story beneath all of it, but we really had to scrub through a lot of scum to get to it.

[KaiserShep]

I agree with that. Its just tedious.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 mai 2013 - 06:59 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Omega's kinda fun. I liked Nyreen, and expanding Aria from "informed ability" to "kinda badass." From Ashes was badly written, that vault should have been on a new planet, and there should have been more consequences to reviving a Prothean and bringing him around with you. (Wouldn't make that a DLC, myself, either plot point or gone.)

Haven't played the other stuff, rly.

[David7204]

Here are the two primary problems with Omega:

1. A lack of meaningful themes, developments, and conflicts.

2. Things went too strictly to plan. Not significant enough challenges or information was revealed.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm telling you what's right. Presentation doesn't fix faulty fundamentals.

You complained Omega was a 'chore.' You think fixing a bug or two would have turned it into something great? Turned the experience around?

Consider a game like New Vegas. That's not a bad presentation? Overflowing with bugs, mediocre voice acting, plenty of dull and repetitive environments, ho-hum gameplay. Pretty much exactly what you listed. Does New Vegas get an 'F'?

Never played it.

[David7204]

I think the hardest part of writing is filling the empty space.

You can't just have Shepard spend a few hours on Omega gunning down Cerberus and have that be the end of it. You have to fill that space up. You have to have stuff happen. You have to have meaningful challenges in there for your characters to face and overcome. Things can never go according to plan, and for Omega, things almost do. There's a few hiccups, but Aria and Shepard manage to take back Afterlife pretty much exactly as planned.

Modifié par David7204, 07 mai 2013 - 07:10 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Here are the two primary problems with Omega:

1. A lack of meaningful themes, developments, and conflicts.

2. Things went too strictly to plan. Not significant enough challenges or information was revealed.

The first is the somewhat the case. It should not have been, but it is. This does fall under presentation though. There really was never a theme behind Omega past Don't **** With Aria. The Adjutants, Petrovsky, Cerberus's goals on Omega, Aria's motivation for wanting Omega, and Omega's usefulness to the war were pretty much ignored or underdeveloped. They were there, and part of the story, but for whatever reason, they never got their due attention.

The second one is false. Things didn't go to plan. It was just shooting, shooting, and more shooting. Aria's ships get shot to hell. You have to abandon ship. Her army is severely depleted before you even reach Omega. You have to go and find a way to get to Aria's base past the energy shields. You have to deal with Nyreen and get her loyalty. You have to get the Talons on your side. You have to go through an Adjutant infested part of the station. You have to deactivate the core after becoming trapped by Petrovsky. You have to disable the bombs that will critically damage Omega's life support. You have to engage Petrovsky in Afterlife after Aria is locked into the biotic restraining device. There was plenty of challenges thrown in the way. And it did nothing. I will agree to the information bit, but that one goes back to the first issue. It goes with developments.

[David7204]

It's not enough. None of the challenges require Aria to really change her plans or improvise. They're all solved pretty quickly.

[CaptainCommander]

Seeming as all the DLC was meant to be in the finished game except maybe Citadel I would rate them all F. Paying for a Prothean and the Reaper origins is daylight robbery and seeming as Aria tells you about taking back Omega in the original game so no all DLC was a fail just because it was "Hey we didn't put that in the game lets charge people for it now!"
Imagining watching Iron Man 3 and each suit was an extra $10 to see it in the movie. EA has a wrong business model and I hope they fail!

[David7204]

That is moronic.

[Mr.House]

Citadel - A+
From Ashes - A
Leviathan - B
Omega - D
Extended cut - Epic F

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

It's not enough. None of the challenges require Aria to really change her plans or improvise. They're all solved pretty quickly.

I still don't get your fascination with challenges. And I beg to differ. Aria has to get a new army from scratch. She has to abandon ship when her flagship is destroyed. She gets thrown into a pretty extreme situation in the energy core. She sounds pretty angry and desperate if you delay. Aria has to divert power from the energy shields, going through a very risky and dangerous area infested with adjutants to reach said the main reactor. 

There's plenty of challenge and obstacles. They're all just presented poorly.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CaptainCommander wrote...

Seeming as all the DLC was meant to be in the finished game except maybe Citadel I would rate them all F. Paying for a Prothean and the Reaper origins is daylight robbery and seeming as Aria tells you about taking back Omega in the original game so no all DLC was a fail just because it was "Hey we didn't put that in the game lets charge people for it now!"
Imagining watching Iron Man 3 and each suit was an extra $10 to see it in the movie. EA has a wrong business model and I hope they fail!

Omega is the only DLC in the game where I would possibly agree with the "intentionally cut out and sold as DLC later". Especially since they have the big lead up to it in the vanilla game with Aria at Purgatory, talking about how she's going to take it back. 

From Ashes was finished after the game had already gone to gold. It was too late to implement into the main game. I think the day one DLC deal was kind of cheap though. Holding it back for a few weeks or even a month might have worked a bit better for them.

The EC should have been there from the beginning, though I view that more as an artistic problem than a "let's cut it out and sell it later" issue. I have no idea why anyone would ever think the OE was good.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 07 mai 2013 - 07:32 .

[David7204]

The power core is dealt with quickly and things are back on track. The adjutants are dealt with quickly and things are back on track. She recruits the Talons as muscle and her army is back on track. There's no game-changing challenges, like on Tuchanka or Rannoch or the planet with Leviathan.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The power core is dealt with quickly and things are back on track. The adjutants are dealt with quickly and things are back on track. She recruits the Talons as muscle and her army is back on track. There's no game-changing challenges, like on Tuchanka or Rannoch or the planet with Leviathan.

Game changing challenges? What the hell are you even talking about? 

Aria's army was devastated. We had to hold up the entire attack just to go build up another one from an existing mercenary group. That takes a 3rd of the bloody DLC! Aria and Nyreen are nearly killed at the reactor, with Aria pretty much begging you to deactivate the shield. The adjutants were just plain badly presented.

They have the same game changing consequence of Tuchanka and Rannoch (you might want to define those two btw). That's just a double standard on your part.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 07 mai 2013 - 07:41 .

[David7204]

We'd be fighting Cerberus anyway. All that really changes is that we're fighting Cerberus at the Talon outpost and at the reactor instead of elsewhere. Compare that to Tuchanka, where the team has to come up with a completely new tactic of bringing down the Reaper. Or Rannoch, where Shepard ends up painting the Reaper on foot. Or Leviathan, where Shepard takes the mech underwater.

[Jadebaby]

Omega- Haven't played lulz
Citadel- Haven't played lulz
From Ashes- B, would be an A but day1 dlc on the disc? Shame EAware, shame!
Leviathan- C-, good dlc but ultimately only there to serve as retroactive foreshadowing for that ****ing kid, which is sadder than day1 dlc imo.
Extended Cut- UG (Ungraded), an F would be talking it up.

[CaptainCommander]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

Seeming as all the DLC was meant to be in the finished game except maybe Citadel I would rate them all F. Paying for a Prothean and the Reaper origins is daylight robbery and seeming as Aria tells you about taking back Omega in the original game so no all DLC was a fail just because it was "Hey we didn't put that in the game lets charge people for it now!"
Imagining watching Iron Man 3 and each suit was an extra $10 to see it in the movie. EA has a wrong business model and I hope they fail!

Omega is the only DLC in the game where I would possibly agree with the "intentionally cut out and sold as DLC later". Especially since they have the big lead up to it in the vanilla game with Aria at Purgatory, talking about how she's going to take it back. 

From Ashes was finished after the game had already gone to gold. It was too late to implement into the main game. I think the day one DLC deal was kind of cheap though. Holding it back for a few weeks or even a month might have worked a bit better for them.

The EC should have been there from the beginning, though I view that more as an artistic problem than a "let's cut it out and sell it later" issue. I have no idea why anyone would ever think the OE was good.

From Ashes was on the disk. People managed to mod the game so you'd have Javik without paying for him. That is something that is cut and paid for! All DLC was cut and paid for. Casey stated that the Reaper origins would never be a DLC but it was.  Omega was cut and was DLC and EC was like sticking a plastic on an amputation. Most of the EC slides look like storyboards.

[David7204]

They have every right to reserve parts of what they envision as the 'complete' game for DLC. A 50 hour AAA non-sandbox game is not going to happen for 60 bucks, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise. That leaves either a smaller and shorter experience, or DLC. I'll gladly pay a great deal of additional money for high quality content.

Modifié par David7204, 07 mai 2013 - 08:01 .