52 réponses à ce sujet

[Mister Blip]

This topic is long overdue. Phantoms are the best designed enemy in the game. And they are at their best on-host, with their intended abilities and reactions, which is how I prefer to play anyway.

Phantoms present a legitimate challenge, and they are the most rewarding enemy to defeat. No stun lock, no bs DOT, only some sweet moves and a lot of DR-related durability from a unit that actually has a low health/barriers pool and a reasonable damage output.

Flameshield comments: if you can't kill a phantom easily (barring the usual latency glitches and unrelated BS), you are bad and you should feel bad. Phantoms are a legitimate challenge that can be handled dozens of ways, and even the "nope shield" is very easily defeated by good timing. The only wrong way to do it is to stand and shoot a full-auto gun (with no other augments to your strategy) against an advancing soldier with a biotic shield and a hand cannon. Come on now. As they say, "Stop whining!"

All that said, any time an enemy spawns in large groups and hits you from any distance with high DPS, it is legitimately irritating and rage at the spawn system and map configurations is acceptable IMHO.

Now lets talk about how good things come in small packages!
(Alternate innuendo title)

Modifié par Mister Blip, 08 mai 2013 - 12:24 .

[landylan]

Go kill one with just a saber and no powers while under pressure from all directions and tell me how fair it is.

Obviously, they are the worst designed enemy if certain powers and weapons turn them into a complete joke while it's nearly impossible to kill them with other set-ups.

[IamZAE]

Bump, because dats wat I do sonz, now get on blips level

[Carnagedude504]

landylan wrote...

Go kill one with just a saber and no powers while under pressure from all directions and tell me how fair it is.

Obviously, they are the worst designed enemy if certain powers and weapons turn them into a complete joke while it's nearly impossible to kill them with other set-ups.

Also, this has been covered a million times, but why does the Phantom (and to an extent, the Dragoon), have such an incredibly high damage value for the ranged attack? I thought they were supposed to be dangerous close-quarters enemies, not fast-firing and incredibly mobile Nemesis.

[k1ngl1ves]

Working as intended.

[Mister Blip]

landylan wrote...

Go kill one with just a saber and no powers while under pressure from all directions and tell me how fair it is.

Obviously, they are the worst designed enemy if certain powers and weapons turn them into a complete joke while it's nearly impossible to kill them with other set-ups.

This is the sort of inane crap that makes BSN so entertaining. "Go get yourself into a situation where you have failed to control enemy spawns or even be aware of enemy positioning, get surrounded, pretend this is a straight shooter with no powers, and tell me how it goes for you!"

Great points, great points. If you pretend you are playing CoD, and ignore the game mechanics, you are playing badly. You might as well tell me that Atlases are unbalanced and hard to kill because you can't take them down without armor piercing. There is not a single kit in the game that cannot make a joke of phantoms if skillfully played.

The real problem is that lazy gamers want their success handed to them on a silver platter, and if it is not the chargeless acolyte they can't be bothered to learn it. For your second point, yes there are some weapons and abilities that trivialize specific aspects of the game (a few enemy types, or survivability) to encourage low level players to persevere and learn to play. It is your own fault if you never move past them to enjoy the game fully.

Modifié par Mister Blip, 08 mai 2013 - 03:14 .

[Euric]

Your opinion, Op, agreeable. But why this topic all of a sudden? Are Phantoms under appreciated or is this thread in response to complaints about or lack of topics about phantoms?

Edit: Yup. Small, vicious little fun packages they are though. Do they pop out of birthday cakes too?

Modifié par Euric, 08 mai 2013 - 03:27 .

[Simba501]

So you feel that they're fine as is? I disagree.

OP.

Modifié par Simba501, 08 mai 2013 - 03:48 .

[me0120]

Mister Blip wrote...

This topic is long overdue. Phantoms are the best designed enemy in the game. And they are at their best on-host, with their intended abilities and reactions, which is how I prefer to play anyway.

...
Now lets talk about how good things come in small packages!
(Alternate innuendo title)

You know they're not real, right? As in, lying to get in their pants is pointless.

[solidprice]

true for the most part TC.
will have to admit the sync kill could be toned down. should be as rare as the brutes/scions imo.
they are challenging enough as is. but they are the smartest foe though. wish there will be more smart foes in me4 like the phantom.

Modifié par solidprice, 08 mai 2013 - 04:18 .

[Simba501]

solidprice wrote...

true for the most part TC.
will have to admit the sync kill could be toned down. should be as rare as the brutes/scions imo.
they are challenging enough as is. but they are the smartest foe though. wish there will be more smart foes in me4 like the phantom.

That would go a long way in balancing them.

[Mister Blip]

Euric wrote...

Your opinion, Op, agreeable. But why this topic all of a sudden? Are Phantoms under appreciated or is this thread in response to complaints about or lack of topics about phantoms?

Edit: Yup. Small, vicious little fun packages they are though. Do they pop out of birthday cakes too?

I have been unable to post for nearly a year. I have seen this enemy whined about more than nearly anything in that time. Many, many threads have insulted my poor Phantom. Lately Dragoons and Bombers take the cake, but complaints about Phantoms and their on host DR (which is actually just glitched off host like most things) have always bothered me.

Goons are cheesy, Bombers are a joke 90% of the time or more. But Phantoms are a pure joy, and sometimes even a legitimate challenge. Every time you find another way to beat them is a joy, from bouncing them off the ceiling with concussive arrows to timing a double lash followed with warp to fling them into a group of enemies and blow them up.

Also, they are kinda sexy if you happen to look at the game models that way. I like athletic girls. But then I like most "kinds" of girls/women...

[Mister Blip]

Simba501 wrote...

solidprice wrote...

true for the most part TC.
will have to admit the sync kill could be toned down. should be as rare as the brutes/scions imo.
they are challenging enough as is. but they are the smartest foe though. wish there will be more smart foes in me4 like the phantom.

That would go a long way in balancing them.

Sync kills as implemented in ME3MP will alway fall short of being a good gameplay mechanic. However, in lieu of something better, they do help to legitimize the threat presented by some enemies and force more intelligent gameplay.

As for distance damage, 'goons should never have had a gun. Phantoms just fire too quickly.

[Cyonan]

If they nerfed the Phantom ranged attack, she'd need to be adjusted so that she's not incredibly easy to kite and was little threat outside of her sync kill.

Also, the Dragoon doesn't hit any harder than the Assault Trooper.

[FlowCytometry]

the palm blaster is what does the vast majority of damage coming from her, to be fair. Its what gets most people killed or quickly health/sheild gated.

I do think on-host phantoms are cheesy, even if BW intended them to be that way. Call me a scrub for that opinion all you want- not gonna change my mind about it.

[d_nought]

Mister Blip wrote...

advancing soldier

Infiltrator

[DullahansXMark]

She can register a sync-kill on me faster than my Turians can move backward. If I somehow got away, her palm cannon with the power of a Ravager (mind you, a Ravager has only the one attack) and the detectability and rate of fire of an Assault Trooper would annihilate me. If I backed up a bit and stood my ground against her, she would put up her bubble and start flipping around all over the place so I can't do any damage. If I actually managed to send her off the map with Concussive Shot... nope! She has jet boots!

Balanced.

Edit: But seriously, the Turian Soldier barely has any options to fight her. He's the third-slowest character in the game, has no dodge, the least health/shield combo of any immobile class in the game... I'm not saying the Turian Soldier can't fight her (I've done it thousands of times, to a majority of successes), but the battle is just so brutally weighted against him that it's ridiculous. Banshees can teleport and sync me from behind the wall and I still think they're a more fair challenge. Hell, Praetorian buttlaser sync-kills are a more fair challenge.

There's a reason many people always bring an Acolyte along if they're hosting, but it's only one reason: her.

Another Edit: I see the point you're making, and honestly, if this game had a few more team-based elements, the fact that I alone could not fight her wouldn't be such a big deal. But as it stands, there are instances where I seriously have to go one-on-four (or on more frequent instances, one-on-three) with the most Anti-TSol enemy in the game, and... that's just not fair. Better, more clearly-defined roles for every character class would go a long way in helping this issue in ME4, as I'd love to see complicated enemies, but she just doesn't fit in here.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 08 mai 2013 - 06:30 .

[joker_jack]

DullahansXMark wrote...

She can register a sync-kill on me faster than my Turians can move backward. If I somehow got away, her palm cannon with the power of a Ravager (mind you, a Ravager has only the one attack) and the detectability and rate of fire of an Assault Trooper would annihilate me. If I backed up a bit and stood my ground against her, she would put up her bubble and start flipping around all over the place so I can't do any damage. If I actually managed to send her off the map with Concussive Shot... nope! She has jet boots!

Balanced.

Edit: But seriously, the Turian Soldier barely has any options to fight her. He's the third-slowest character in the game, has no dodge, the least health/shield combo of any immobile class in the game... I'm not saying the Turian Soldier can't fight her (I've done it thousands of times, to a majority of successes), but the battle is just so brutally weighted against him that it's ridiculous. Banshees can teleport and sync me from behind the wall and I still think they're a more fair challenge. Hell, Praetorian buttlaser sync-kills are a more fair challenge.

There's a reason many people always bring an Acolyte along if they're hosting, but it's only one reason: her.

Another Edit: I see the point you're making, and honestly, if this game had a few more team-based elements, the fact that I alone could not fight her wouldn't be such a big deal. But as it stands, there are instances where I seriously have to go one-on-four (or on more frequent instances, one-on-three) with the most Anti-TSol enemy in the game, and... that's just not fair. Better, more clearly-defined roles for every character class would go a long way in helping this issue in ME4, as I'd love to see complicated enemies, but she just doesn't fit in here.

Phantoms could be argued as the reason for giving the newer turians jet packs. 

Though more on topic I think another bad senerio for the t-sol is the phantom/dragoon tagteam. You get a group of them and your t-sol is the one with the biggest kick me sign. You try and take down the dragoon and he dodge rolls into a damn smash and stuns you long enough to get get stabbed by the phantom b*****. 

The t-sol has a really crappy power set when it comes to these 2. Travel powers never fair well in dealing with an enemy that evades such powers with near impunity most games while laughing at your melee. With a good load out and some skill, it's ice skateing uphill at best. 

[Doni]

I disagree, but will cede that compared to the BS that other enemies can do, phantoms do seem a bit more fair.

IMO, to make Phantoms a more fair match, you'd have to either decrease the damage their mass accelerator cannon gauntlets do or reduce the DR they get for dodging (because being able to withstand 3-5 claymore rounds at point blank by doing cartwheels is utterly silly).

[dasfranken]

She is really the only unit I always take into consideration when building a character ("How does this character deal with phantoms?"). I have many issues with her, but she is a very interesting enemy to fight.

I hate that cryo powers (minus cryo shield for some reason) can't freeze her above all else though. Especially considering she already had a bubble that could have blocked the power and prevented the freeze if you timed cryo blast poorly.

[Mister Blip]

I think Dullahan has identified the weakest character type against Phantoms fairly well. Old Turians it is. But, I have to disagree about it not being fairly simple to handle Phantoms with him if you know what you are doing. Concussive does 2x damage against her. In case you are not aware, there is a rather significant delay between bubbles. Bubbles also make her stop advancing temporarily when she is hit by a power with impact force (concussive). So the fast-firing, forceful, 2x damage concussive shot actually makes a joke of Phantoms.

Dullahan, you have complained about her plenty of times in the past. But all I can really say to your complaints as listed is, respectfully, l2p. If anything, the "Tursent" is the kit with a legitimate complaint against her. Also, any time you face 3-4 high level enemy troops it should be tough. It isn't the Phantoms' fault that their teammates are either suicidal or useless.

Cryo powers should still freeze her. I don't know what was up with that change.

[Mister Blip]

Force bubble, shoot during bubble, pop concussive as bubble wears off, phantom barrier goes down, she charges shooting, shoot her in head (anywhere really if your gun is decent), she flips, concussive as she lands, shoot rag dolled body, Tsol wins in 3 casts without losing his shields.
Think it over.

[USIncorp0]

Mister Blip wrote...

And they are at their best on-host, with their intended abilities and reactions.

Wat.

[NuclearTech76]

Phantoms are many things. Fair isn't what I would call them.

I would have zero problems if they leveled the DR on and off host.

OP is thinking about taking phantoms down 1 on 1. Things get more complex when you have teammates and other enemies.

[USIncorp0]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Phantoms are many things. Fair isn't what I would call them.

I would have zero problems if they leveled the DR on and off host.

OP is thinking about taking phantoms down 1 on 1. Things get more complex when you have teammates and other enemies.

But, but, but this game is balanced around soloing.

Right?