1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

ConanTheLeader wrote...

The directors cut was them learning from their mistakes and it was a great ending, people just moan that a galaxy wide war could not have a disney ending where everyone lives.

so much stupid in so little words.

[Archonsg]

Jadebaby wrote...

ConanTheLeader wrote...

The directors cut was them learning from their mistakes and it was a great ending, people just moan that a galaxy wide war could not have a disney ending where everyone lives.

so much stupid in so little words.

Lol!
Right you are.

Sometimes, reading stuff like that and watching the odd "beauty queens" when caught with questions that they didn't prepare for and thus unable to respond with other than "... world hunger... Afghanistan, Africa... Uhhh... World peace..." I can't help but feel pity.

[Archonsg]

evil double post deleted 

Modifié par Archonsg, 09 mai 2013 - 12:49 .

[drayfish]

ConanTheLeader wrote...

The directors cut was them learning from their mistakes and it was a great ending, people just moan that a galaxy wide war could not have a disney ending where everyone lives.

Catch phrases are so fun.

'Did I do that?!'

'How you doin'?'

'Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!'

Cheap, rote responses, devoid of context.  They're funny every time.  I'm so glad that over the past year pro-enders such as yourself have found a similar cliche to make their own.

'Disney ending.'

That's classic stuff.

...Of course, I guess it would ignore the death of Thane.

And Emily Wong.

And Anderson.

And Jenkins.

Kaiden or Ashley.

The Illusive Man.

Udina.

Morinth.

Kal Reegar.

Rana Thanoptis.

Aresh.

Charr, the Krogan poet.

Logic would dictate everyone in the Citadel (Harkin, Aria, Liara's mother, every single person you did a side quest for...)

The majority of Earth's populace.

Thessia and its occupants.

The 300, 000 Batarians sacrificed.

Because no matter what you do, all of these figures - some whose ideologies you might have questioned, but many you fought alongside or sought to save - are all dead.  Victims of the ghastly, needless, futile slaughter of a deranged, mass, mass, mass genocidal maniac who miscalculated a hypothesis eons ago.  And that's even before mentioning all of the crew and secondary characters you may have lost along the way because they weren't 'loyal', or you made a bad call (people like Kirahee, Tali, Miranda, Wreav, Wrex, Legion, Kelly Chambers, etc).

But that's pretty Disney, right?  Didn't Mufassa die that one time? 

Yep.  Same thing.

The reductive fiction that people such as yourself use to dismiss those who didn't like the ending - that those dissatisfied just wanted a 'sacrifice nothing', happy-joy ending - is hysterically absurd.  Before you have even played through Mass Effect 3's opening level the player has already experienced untold devastation that cannot be undone, and from which galactic civilisation will never entirely be healed.

Pouring further agony upon the player in the ending strikes me as being just cheap emotional manipulation to grind such sorrow even further into their face.  And considering all that has already been lost, thinking that such gratuity was 'necessary' is infantile.

...Or you could just stick with the flimsy, kneejerk cliché, and throw 'blue babies' and 'rainbow unicorns' into the mix too.  Might as well.  Go for the lazy, reductive trifecta.

Win.

Modifié par drayfish, 09 mai 2013 - 01:07 .

[dreamgazer]

 

Jadebaby wrote...

ConanTheLeader wrote...
The directors cut was them learning from their mistakes and it was a great ending, people just moan that a galaxy wide war could not have a disney ending where everyone lives.

so much stupid in so little words.

This is the one situation where I'm going to unfortunately point to something external to show the mentality of the outside fanbase. There is a comic (here) of EDI and Joker in the Destroy ending, depicting her death and Joker's reaction.  Guess what's in the comments? Many people who say they choose Control and Synthesis because they couldn't let this happen to them.

The BSN really isn't reflective of the outside world.  People pick Control because they like the ReaperShep God speech and becoming Lord of the Metal Cthulhu. People pick Synthesis because they're glad they got the best "glowy" green ending. And yes, people pick those options because it keeps things from dying. I don't agree with that statement's point about it being "great", but those audience members do, in fact, have a different perspective on the power of death.

If everything else were the same and the Destroy ending didn't kill the Geth, or if it simply didn't kill EDI, then I think public opinion would be much different. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 09 mai 2013 - 01:51 .

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...
If everything else were the same and the Destroy ending didn't kill the Geth, or if it simply didn't kill EDI, then I think public opinion would be much different. 

It certaintly would. 

[robertthebard]

drayfish wrote...

Because no matter what you do, all of these figures - some whose ideologies you might have questioned, but many you fought alongside or sought to save - are all dead.  Victims of the ghastly, needless, futile slaughter of a deranged, mass, mass, mass genocidal maniac who miscalculated a hypothesis eons ago.  And that's even before mentioning all of the crew and secondary characters you may have lost along the way because they weren't 'loyal', or you made a bad call (people like Kirahee, Tali, Miranda, Wreav, Wrex, Legion, Kelly Chambers, etc).

But that's pretty Disney, right?  Didn't Mufassa die that one time? 

Yep.  Same thing.

The reductive fiction that people such as yourself use to dismiss those who didn't like the ending - that those dissatisfied just wanted a 'sacrifice nothing', happy-joy ending - is hysterically absurd.  Before you have even played through Mass Effect 3's opening level the player has already experienced untold devastation that cannot be undone, and from which galactic civilisation will never entirely be healed.

Pouring further agony upon the player in the ending strikes me as being just cheap emotional manipulation to grind such sorrow even further into their face.  And considering all that has already been lost, thinking that such gratuity was 'necessary' is infantile.

...Or you could just stick with the flimsy, kneejerk cliché, and throw 'blue babies' and 'rainbow unicorns' into the mix too.  Might as well.  Go for the lazy, reductive trifecta.

Win.

So you didn't get MEHEM then?  I have my preferred ending, even though it doesn't have a Legend Save.  What's funny is all the "I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'" people that jumped onto MEHEM's bandwagon.  What does MEHEM stand for?  Oh yeah:  Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"?  Surely you don't need me to point out the irony?  So the fact of the matter is, despite claims to the contrary, a lot of people "holding the line" were in fact looking for a happy ending, or the mod wouldn't be "successful" now would it?  So pouring out the hyperbole to shut people up is now more acceptable than just moving on to other things?

[fainmaca]

Hmm... I remain unconvinced that this isn't just PR speak to allow these guys to start building hype for their next project.

I mean, they're partly right, I guess, when they say that they need to give more attention to the characters and plots the players invest in (what a surprise. I mean, its not like Bioware are known for writing characters and arcs that players get attached to, or choice-based narratives where we crave individual resolutions to our stories), but that is not the only problems ME3 had, not by a long shot.

I've been saying it for a few months now to my friends, but Mass Effect 3 isn't actually a bad game. It's not even a terrible story. Granted, there are some parts that aren't really up to scratch, but for the most part it forms a sound whole that is in the end good value for the price of a video game.

Where it fails is that it's a bad Mass Effect installment, just like Deception or some of the weirder comics. At many points, especially after the resolution of the Genophage plot, but even at a few points before that, it just doesn't gel right with the worldbuilding done before ME3. There are a few issues that contribute to this, such as the Autodialogue, the railroading of certain segments, and the lack of impact from our previous gameplay experience, but I think the biggest offender is a lack of ethical balance. Almost every plot point, even the admittedly fantastic Genophage arc, is unbalanced when it comes to the moral issue played with in the scenario.

Think back to examples of moral dilemmas done right in the previous games, specifically the Rachni and the Heretic station. In ME1, we learn all about how much of a threat the Rachni were as part of the world building. Its a basic, elementary fact of the culture we're inserted into via Shepard that these bugs were big, evil and its a good thing they're not around anymore. We learn this in much the same way that a child nowadays finds out about the Mongol hordes sweeping across Asia, or Atilla the Hun, or that political group in Germany a few decades back. Then, on Noveria, we find out about what this specific Rachni has been subjected to, how their surroundings drove them to violence against the scientists. Its subtle, but in this way we get a balanced view of the species, and more importantly the Queen we find. She's one of the monsters of myth, but she's the victim. in this way, either choice at that point could be seen as the ethically sound (not right, wrong, good or evil) course of action. With neither choice does the game inspire guilt or make it feel emotionally wrong to choose either option.

With the heretics, we get the same thing, except in this case wehave both the world-building exposition of the setting and our first-hand experience of them in the first and second games to sway us in one direction, and then a sympathetic companion in Legion to sway us in the other. Once again, either choice feels equally morally weighted.

My point is, these choices are good because they are genuinely difficult to make because they are morally and emotionally balanced. Granted, you do have occasional unbalanced scenarios, like choosing to let the Council die, but usually, such as in that particular case, its a third option where motivation (let'em die vs focus on Sovereign) causes the imbalance, rather than the scenario itself. Its part of the reason why the two sides of the moral spectrum are Paragon and Renegade instead of 'good', 'evil', light side or dark side. Its part of what makes Mass effect stand out among other morality-based games (such as the rest of BW's portfolio).

Fast forward to ME3, and the Genophage plot. Now as I said, this part of the game was well done, but it still suffered from this. Initially, the Genophage issue was a complex, cloudy matter where either side of the issue was a valid stance to take. We're given a character on either side of the issue in the form of Wrex and Mordin. Wrex is a sympathetic Krogan we can side with, and Mordin illustrates the wisdom of putting necessity over what is perceived as good and evil. Across the first two games, the issue is made into a perfectly balanced emotional matter, a perfect shade of grey. In ME3, the issue becomes a black and white matter, mostly due to Mordin's character arc. His renouncing necessity because of his regrets removed that voice in favour of keeping the Genophage in place, at least for the time being. instead we get a character whose portrayal is completely unsympathetic (Linron), and its made clear that sabotaging the cure is evil. So, while you can still make either choice, and the scenes surrounding it are beautifully executed, the choice is now unbalanced. Sabotage is a choice you can't avoid feeling guilty about, and every character interaction referring to it hammers the point home that you've done something wrong, something bad. The only person to be satisfied with the choice is someone who makes no effort to be endearing. You might as well have had Kai Leng suggest sabotage to us.

Thing is, this could have been remedied. In this particular case, just have Mordin be reluctant, but once more putting necessity above emotion. Have Shepard express more reservations about the cure. Show instances of krogan aggression that could be a problem with a bigger population (perhaps Krogan troops not getting on with the Normandy crew, or even during your visits to the Citadel have Krogan refugees be rowdy troublemakers. Make Krogan aggression a part of the background noise, and sabotage seems like a rational choice once more. other scenarios would immensely benefit from this kind of balance, and they would feel like Mass Effect choices again, difficult, emotional, engaging.

This is just one example in a 30+hour game, and granted there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part the game really lacks the depth that the choices gave the first two. For those coming into the franchise just now, the choices aren't engaging enough on their own to really drive us like they should, and for returning players the way they're presented just doesn't quite gel right. Combined with removal of features that, for many, defined the franchise such as pruning the dialogue wheel, removing the exploratory atmosphere we had with the ME1 Citadel and the Mako, then the multiple worlds we went to in ME2, and paring down interesting characters to the very bare bones of what they used to be, it leaves the game as a generic sci-fi run and gun experience. Granted one with some high production values and a lot of work put in behind the scenes, but its like if you really craved and were promised Lemonade, but got Orange Soda with a lemon on the bottle. Its good, refreshing and its definately a good drink, but its not what was asked for, not what was advertised, and no matter how nice it is its just not right.

I've rambled on far longer than anticipated here, so I'll leave it at that.

Fainmaca Out.

[Wowky]

Everman says the experience has underlined what's at stake when you're working with an interactive medium. "It shows how invested a player is in the story, and how much they care about the outcomes. I've learned that a bitter-sweet ending is much easier to watch in a movie, than experience in a long RPG where the player is very invested in the protagonist."

I think this is a poignant quote, and it actually pinpoints the reason why I thought the ending was "okay enough" and not "great" (I never thought it was "bad", but I did feel it could have been better). When you watch a 2 hour (or hell even 3 hour movie) and it ends with a big "what if?" or a bunch of them, you kind of appreciate the director's/writer's/producer's angle, but when you've invested 150 hours into a trilogy of video games, it doesn't feel so easy to just go "oh yeah, I see what you did there", even if you do see what they did there. I felt the same with the ending of Lost.

[GreyLycanTrope]

robertthebard wrote...
So you didn't get MEHEM then?  I have my preferred ending, even though it doesn't have a Legend Save.  What's funny is all the "I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'" people that jumped onto MEHEM's bandwagon.  What does MEHEM stand for?  Oh yeah:  Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"?  Surely you don't need me to point out the irony?  So the fact of the matter is, despite claims to the contrary, a lot of people "holding the line" were in fact looking for a happy ending, or the mod wouldn't be "successful" now would it?  So pouring out the hyperbole to shut people up is now more acceptable than just moving on to other things?

The mod's name is a misnomer, quite a few of us if not most just jumped aboard because it removed star kid from the equation. As someone who admits to ending their playthrough before that scene even occurs I'd think you could relate to the mentality.

Besides that cost of victroy is still there, the focus simply shifts to Andersons death as a symbolic representation of those who died along to bring about a victory.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 09 mai 2013 - 02:04 .

[drayfish]

robertthebard wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Because no matter what you do, all of these figures - some whose ideologies you might have questioned, but many you fought alongside or sought to save - are all dead.  Victims of the ghastly, needless, futile slaughter of a deranged, mass, mass, mass genocidal maniac who miscalculated a hypothesis eons ago.  And that's even before mentioning all of the crew and secondary characters you may have lost along the way because they weren't 'loyal', or you made a bad call (people like Kirahee, Tali, Miranda, Wreav, Wrex, Legion, Kelly Chambers, etc).

But that's pretty Disney, right?  Didn't Mufassa die that one time? 

Yep.  Same thing.

The reductive fiction that people such as yourself use to dismiss those who didn't like the ending - that those dissatisfied just wanted a 'sacrifice nothing', happy-joy ending - is hysterically absurd.  Before you have even played through Mass Effect 3's opening level the player has already experienced untold devastation that cannot be undone, and from which galactic civilisation will never entirely be healed.

Pouring further agony upon the player in the ending strikes me as being just cheap emotional manipulation to grind such sorrow even further into their face.  And considering all that has already been lost, thinking that such gratuity was 'necessary' is infantile.

...Or you could just stick with the flimsy, kneejerk cliché, and throw 'blue babies' and 'rainbow unicorns' into the mix too.  Might as well.  Go for the lazy, reductive trifecta.

Win.

So you didn't get MEHEM then?  I have my preferred ending, even though it doesn't have a Legend Save.  What's funny is all the "I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'" people that jumped onto MEHEM's bandwagon.  What does MEHEM stand for?  Oh yeah:  Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"?  Surely you don't need me to point out the irony?  So the fact of the matter is, despite claims to the contrary, a lot of people "holding the line" were in fact looking for a happy ending, or the mod wouldn't be "successful" now would it?  So pouring out the hyperbole to shut people up is now more acceptable than just moving on to other things?

Exactly what 'hyperbole' are you talking about?

I listed a series of facts that remain true for all playthroughs regardless of the concluding events of the game.  I was illustrating how ridiculous it is to claim that a tale of such devastation, compromise and sacrifice, could ever be considered to have a 'fairytale' conclusion.  Literally Santa Clause could pop up in the final seconds and it would still be one of the most grim narratives ever produced.

So you going off on a screed about MEHEM when I said nothing about it and have no investment in it, seems like you have your own peculiar agenda to push...

Let me be clear: I don't care if people enjoyed Synthesis, Destroy, or Control.  I don't care if they loved MEHEM, Marauder Shields, or what I believe is your own special poison in switching off the game at the beam run.

What I was criticising was people who arrogantly try to reduce broad readings of a text into childish, reductive catchphrases like 'Disney ending' or 'No sacrifice'.  And it seems like you have just decided to do so yourself...

So, great - you hate the idea of MEHEM, and have decided to use its name to shove everyone who had a problem with the game into the same cheap infantile stereotype.

Good for you.

Modifié par drayfish, 09 mai 2013 - 01:57 .

[Bizinha]

I do not understand why the rejection of MEHEM. I think if there was an ending where Shepard is truly alive, as in MEHEM (a fourth color), I'm sure that would be the most chosen.

Unfortunately Bioware has not given us that option. I think that even swallow faults script and deus-ex

[robertthebard]

drayfish wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So you didn't get MEHEM then?  I have my preferred ending, even though it doesn't have a Legend Save.  What's funny is all the "I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'" people that jumped onto MEHEM's bandwagon.  What does MEHEM stand for?  Oh yeah:  Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"?  Surely you don't need me to point out the irony?  So the fact of the matter is, despite claims to the contrary, a lot of people "holding the line" were in fact looking for a happy ending, or the mod wouldn't be "successful" now would it?  So pouring out the hyperbole to shut people up is now more acceptable than just moving on to other things?

Exactly what 'hyperbole' are you talking about?

I listed a series of facts that remain true for all playthroughs regardless of the concluding events of the game.  I was illustrating how ridiculous it is to claim that a tale of such devastation, compromise and sacrifice, could ever be considered to have a 'fairytale' conclusion.  Literally Santa Clause could pop up in the final seconds and it would still be one of the most grim narratives ever produced.

So you going off on a screed about MEHEM when I said nothing about it and have no investment in it, seems like you have your own peculiar agenda to push...

Let me be clear: I don't care if people enjoyed Synthesis, Destroy, or Control.  I don't care if they loved MEHEM, Marauder Shields, or what I believe is your own special poison in switching off the game at the beam run.

What I was criticising was people who arrogantly try to reduce broad readings of a text into childish, reductive catchphrases like 'Disney ending' or 'No sacrifice'.  And it seems like you have just decided to do so yourself...

So, great - you hate the idea of MEHEM, and have decided to use its name to shove everyone who had a problem with the game into the same cheap infantile stereotype.

Good for you.

I was pretty clear.  I asked a question.  So 5 paragraphs to say "No, I don't buy into MEHEM"?  That was the question I asked.  You are correct, I die at Harbinger, it makes sense, and flows well with the narrative, and sucks because there's not legend save.  But, it's satisfying.

The rest of my post addresses something of a common theme around here:  "We're not looking for a Happy Ending, but we jumped on a mod that has "Happy Ending" in the title, and sing it's praises everywhere we can".  Then claim it's a misnomer, so we can pretend to hold our line.  Is it an accident that the creator named it that way?  Nope, the creator knew exactly what he/she was doing, making a selling point to the mod, and people bought into it.

[drayfish]

robertthebard wrote...

drayfish wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So you didn't get MEHEM then?  I have my preferred ending, even though it doesn't have a Legend Save.  What's funny is all the "I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'" people that jumped onto MEHEM's bandwagon.  What does MEHEM stand for?  Oh yeah:  Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"?  Surely you don't need me to point out the irony?  So the fact of the matter is, despite claims to the contrary, a lot of people "holding the line" were in fact looking for a happy ending, or the mod wouldn't be "successful" now would it?  So pouring out the hyperbole to shut people up is now more acceptable than just moving on to other things?

Exactly what 'hyperbole' are you talking about?

I listed a series of facts that remain true for all playthroughs regardless of the concluding events of the game.  I was illustrating how ridiculous it is to claim that a tale of such devastation, compromise and sacrifice, could ever be considered to have a 'fairytale' conclusion.  Literally Santa Clause could pop up in the final seconds and it would still be one of the most grim narratives ever produced.

So you going off on a screed about MEHEM when I said nothing about it and have no investment in it, seems like you have your own peculiar agenda to push...

Let me be clear: I don't care if people enjoyed Synthesis, Destroy, or Control.  I don't care if they loved MEHEM, Marauder Shields, or what I believe is your own special poison in switching off the game at the beam run.

What I was criticising was people who arrogantly try to reduce broad readings of a text into childish, reductive catchphrases like 'Disney ending' or 'No sacrifice'.  And it seems like you have just decided to do so yourself...

So, great - you hate the idea of MEHEM, and have decided to use its name to shove everyone who had a problem with the game into the same cheap infantile stereotype.

Good for you.

I was pretty clear.  I asked a question.  So 5 paragraphs to say "No, I don't buy into MEHEM"?  That was the question I asked.  You are correct, I die at Harbinger, it makes sense, and flows well with the narrative, and sucks because there's not legend save.  But, it's satisfying.

The rest of my post addresses something of a common theme around here:  "We're not looking for a Happy Ending, but we jumped on a mod that has "Happy Ending" in the title, and sing it's praises everywhere we can".  Then claim it's a misnomer, so we can pretend to hold our line.  Is it an accident that the creator named it that way?  Nope, the creator knew exactly what he/she was doing, making a selling point to the mod, and people bought into it.

Again, I want to make it clear that I am not endorsing MEHEM, just posing a question to try and get to the heart of your crusade...

So you are blowing a semantic quibble out into a treatise on the whole chunk of the fanbase that didn't love the endings?  Well how about if the creator of MEHEM had have called it: 'Mass Effect Ending that Doesn't Suck as Much as All the Others?

MEETDSAMAATO?

Sounds catchy.

Would that have satisfied you?

[GreyLycanTrope]

robertthebard wrote...
I was pretty clear.  I asked a question.  So 5 paragraphs to say "No, I don't buy into MEHEM"?  That was the question I asked.  You are correct, I die at Harbinger, it makes sense, and flows well with the narrative, and sucks because there's not legend save.  But, it's satisfying.

The rest of my post addresses something of a common theme around here:  "We're not looking for a Happy Ending, but we jumped on a mod that has "Happy Ending" in the title, and sing it's praises everywhere we can".  Then claim it's a misnomer, so we can pretend to hold our line.  Is it an accident that the creator named it that way?  Nope, the creator knew exactly what he/she was doing, making a selling point to the mod, and people bought into it.

You're suggesting we buy into things soley based on a name and not the content. This is wrong.

[Morlath]

Bizinha wrote...

I do not understand why the rejection of MEHEM. I think if there was an ending where Shepard is truly alive, as in MEHEM (a fourth color), I'm sure that would be the most chosen.

Unfortunately Bioware has not given us that option. I think that even swallow faults script and deus-ex

Truthfully, I'd probably only pick a "happy" ending 1 out of 5 times if it was there in-game. As much as Shepard (however you play them) deserves a happy ending after everything they've been though, the story moves from improbably sci-fi tale to a generic "Hollywood" story if Shepard lives.

The character gets put through too much, experiences too much and is fundamentally changed from who s/he used to be that there wouldn't be a happy ending even if he survived.

The story of the three ME games would scar the psyche of a normal person and wars are brutual, harsh and the good guys don't always get to go home. Having Shepard die at the end works.

[Humakt83]

angol fear wrote...

So we'll have only happy endings, no more logical endings? The writing in video game is not really high and we'll come back to that kind of writing. But I understand they need to sell games.

That's because majority of players are too immature to suffer a "defeat".

[dsl08002]

And to be honest if it was a lesson learned wouldnt they have put a Little bit more effort in creating more DLC for ME3 and try to create more Closure.

[robertthebard]

drayfish wrote...

Again, I want to make it clear that I am not endorsing MEHEM, just posing a question to try and get to the heart of your crusade...

So you are blowing a semantic quibble out into a treatise on the whole chunk of the fanbase that didn't love the endings?  Well how about if the creator of MEHEM had have called it: 'Mass Effect Ending that Doesn't Suck as Much as All the Others?

MEETDSAMAATO?

Sounds catchy.

Would that have satisfied you?

It would have been funny.  Not as funny as some of the posts subsequent to mine, but funny nonetheless.

As to my "crusade", I'm over it.  I didn't need a mod, no matter what it's called.  I didn't need to spend months on the forums, or a year + trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced that their opinions are invalid.  So, I guess my "crusade" would simply be "get over it and move on"?    Everything that's going to be done to ME 3 is done, according to the developers.  There will be no more DLC, for SP anyway, not sure about MP, and I don't play enough that I'm going to look every week to see.  The endings did suck, but constantly ranting about them, or at people that found something in them that somebody else can't see isn't productive?  Could that be my "crusade"?  Are there any fresh arguments that I've missed, or is it a constant rehash of the same tired threads?

[Eain]

If character closure had been enough to keep the game from having a **** ending, the Citadel DLC would've solved that problem for us.

It didn't.

The ending is still horrible.

I've gone over this far too many times to bother laying it out again. A year ago I might've hoped a Bioware dev stumbled across my post and read it. Now it's just silly. Hudson and Walters really, legitimately, do not understand what they did wrong. It's just how it is. Means I have no reason to expect ME4 to be better.

[SpamBot2000]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Honestly, I don't think people around here will be satisfied unless the creators and writers say "Sorry we are such idiots, how dare we end a story the way we want to. IT is real, but we can't release it into the game because EA is too evil to let it happen."

That's the vibe I get, at least.

Or they could maybe try fixing the ending, for realz this time.

[drayfish]

robertthebard wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Again, I want to make it clear that I am not endorsing MEHEM, just posing a question to try and get to the heart of your crusade...

So you are blowing a semantic quibble out into a treatise on the whole chunk of the fanbase that didn't love the endings?  Well how about if the creator of MEHEM had have called it: 'Mass Effect Ending that Doesn't Suck as Much as All the Others?

MEETDSAMAATO?

Sounds catchy.

Would that have satisfied you?

It would have been funny.  Not as funny as some of the posts subsequent to mine, but funny nonetheless.

As to my "crusade", I'm over it.  I didn't need a mod, no matter what it's called.  I didn't need to spend months on the forums, or a year + trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced that their opinions are invalid.  So, I guess my "crusade" would simply be "get over it and move on"?    Everything that's going to be done to ME 3 is done, according to the developers.  There will be no more DLC, for SP anyway, not sure about MP, and I don't play enough that I'm going to look every week to see.  The endings did suck, but constantly ranting about them, or at people that found something in them that somebody else can't see isn't productive?  Could that be my "crusade"?  Are there any fresh arguments that I've missed, or is it a constant rehash of the same tired threads?

Well I completely agree that ranting at people to try and change their minds is not productive.  Indeed, telling someone that their opinion is not valid is completely asinine.

But by the same rationale, reducing other people's opinions to glib summaries like 'you just want a happy ending' is doing precisely that.  It is as disrespectful, oversimplified and fraudulent as screaming 'You like the Control ending?! Well you must be a totalitarian, psycho nutjob!' or 'You switch the game off at the beam-run?!  Well you must be a nihilistic maniac!'

Lumping people into stereotypes so that you can belittle a straw man version of their position does little to progress those arguments you have described as stale.

[jstme]

Humakt83 wrote...

angol fear wrote...

So we'll have only happy endings, no more logical endings? The writing in video game is not really high and we'll come back to that kind of writing. But I understand they need to sell games.

That's because majority of players are too immature to suffer a "defeat".

Nope. This is because ME1 ,ME2 and 99% of ME3 are making their best to show that players cannot suffer defeat in this tale. 
Suddenly changing direction ,spirit and theme of the story in the very end is not a logical nor fitting ending to a story and it is not players fault. Stick to your theme - if you want to write story ending with defeat - do it with this intention from the very start.