1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

iakus wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I'll believe when I actually see the results, bioware.

But if you actually want to earn the respect of your fans, stop dismissing criticism and actually defend your work rather than disappearing off the face of the internet for a year and leaving everyone else who felt confused and agitated in the dry.

Didn't they say they'd discuss the endings at a later date, when more people have ahd a chance to complete the game?

Wasn't that said something like a year ago?

Yyyyyyyep. And all they said was "speculations" and "imagination" and "artistic integrity."

To be completely frank, if they had kept the original horrible endings but they actually sat down with us and discussed it with us, defended their work, and explain some of their decision making process for the game, I would have had  a lot more respect for them.

Which is actually why I am starting to like the dragon age team a lot now. They have pretty much been really active in fan discussions for years now compared to the mass effect team. The mass effect team should take some pointers from them.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 13 mai 2013 - 04:27 .

[remydat]

Dray,

You are never going to get a perfect answer unless you poll every single person who bought the game. I liked the game have never had the desire to take part in a poll. Again haters tend to want to be heard. So I stand by my point, if ME4 tanks then I will consider the fallout be true. If not then just like a lot of things it was just your typical outcry full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. I can't be concerned by an uproar that in the end does not impact the bottom line. That's just me though.

As for your other points. Lovecraft is out because I already said that was one of my reasons why I am not a big fan of his. I consider it lazy writing. The Joker is obviously mentally disturbed and in various origins was a victim of abuse so that is all the motive I need to know. I see enough examples of mentally disturbed and victims of abuse becoming violent.

As for moriarty and holmes it is clear they both like the intellectual challenge their respective career choices affords them. They consider themselves geniuses and want that genius validated via their endeavors. Both recent adaptions in the UK and US make this perfectly clear to me.  In the origianl stories Moriarty was not even the main antagonist he would become.  He was just another villain.  However the desire by later people to uncover the mystery and create a proper foil for Holmes has made him a much bigger antagonist that Doyle ever imagined.  Same with Irene Adler.  She was a one off story idea that people later turned into the love of Holmes life.  Why?  

All of the above is very diffrent than completely passing on providing any sort of motive. Again, perfectly fine if you don't care but I do. I purposely avoid Lovecraftian stories for that very reason if I am aware beforehand that no motive will ever be provided.

Modifié par remydat, 13 mai 2013 - 04:49 .

[Mathias]

remydat wrote...
You are never going to get a perfect answer unless you poll every single person who bought the game. I liked the game have never had the desire to take part in a poll. Again haters tend to want to be heard. So I stand by my point, if ME4 tanks then I will consider the fallout be true. If not then just like a lot of things it was just your typical outcry full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. I can't be concerned by an uproar that in the end does not impact the bottom line. That's just me though.

The ME3 ending reaction was a "typical" outcry? Are you ****ting me? It was the one of the biggest gaming controversies in years. Every gaming website was talking about it, it even made the news and had some professional writers give their two cents on why it was bad. It was so bad that Bioware had to release free DLC in an attempt to fix it. And to say the whole thing didn't impact the bottom line is ridiculous. Once again the reaction cause them to release an Extended Cut, and even in a recent interview Casey and Gamble stated that they learned their lesson with the ending and will apply what they learned to future games.

I say we definitely made an impact.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

remydat wrote...
You are never going to get a perfect answer unless you poll every single person who bought the game. I liked the game have never had the desire to take part in a poll. Again haters tend to want to be heard. So I stand by my point, if ME4 tanks then I will consider the fallout be true. If not then just like a lot of things it was just your typical outcry full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. I can't be concerned by an uproar that in the end does not impact the bottom line. That's just me though.

The ME3 ending reaction was a "typical" outcry? Are you ****ting me? It was the one of the biggest gaming controversies in years. Every gaming website was talking about it, it even made the news and had some professional writers give their two cents on why it was bad. It was so bad that Bioware had to release free DLC in an attempt to fix it. And to say the whole thing didn't impact the bottom line is ridiculous. Once again the reaction cause them to release an Extended Cut, and even in a recent interview Casey and Gamble stated that they learned their lesson with the ending and will apply what they learned to future games.

I say we definitely made an impact.

Yeah, say what you will about majority vs minority, but there was nothing typical about the ending crisis. I'm inclined to call it the single largest ending crisis in  gaming history.

[remydat]

Typical if it does not lead to impact. I was not referring to the gaming industry alone. There have been great controversies that ultimately achieved nothing. When I see evidence of this one achieving something of note then I will consider it. So far all you have to show is a few extra minutes in a game and unfulfilled promises. That may be your idea of impact but it is not mine. I am free to expect more before I declare this movement impactful.

Let me ask you did you think the occupy wallstreet movement had great impact?  I sure didnt.  For all the outcry what measurable impact resulted?

Modifié par remydat, 13 mai 2013 - 04:57 .

[dreamgazer]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

remydat wrote...
You are never going to get a perfect answer unless you poll every single person who bought the game. I liked the game have never had the desire to take part in a poll. Again haters tend to want to be heard. So I stand by my point, if ME4 tanks then I will consider the fallout be true. If not then just like a lot of things it was just your typical outcry full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. I can't be concerned by an uproar that in the end does not impact the bottom line. That's just me though.

The ME3 ending reaction was a "typical" outcry? Are you ****ting me? It was the one of the biggest gaming controversies in years. Every gaming website was talking about it, it even made the news and had some professional writers give their two cents on why it was bad. It was so bad that Bioware had to release free DLC in an attempt to fix it. And to say the whole thing didn't impact the bottom line is ridiculous. Once again the reaction cause them to release an Extended Cut, and even in a recent interview Casey and Gamble stated that they learned their lesson with the ending and will apply what they learned to future games.

I say we definitely made an impact.

This is true, and it's hard to avoid no matter what side of the fence you're sitting on---or if you're just sitting on top the fence, watching the rabble. The reaction to the ending was definitely one of the most publicized video-game situations on record.  

Whether it was an overreaction or not is immaterial. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 13 mai 2013 - 05:07 .

[remydat]

And it remains to be seen whether it achieved anything. Pointing that fact out doesn't mean the outcry wasn't real. It just means what it achieved so far is in doubt. I assume the goal was to get bioware to make an ending you liked. Well if you are still complaining then clearly that goal was not met and regardless they still made their money off of you and still have one of the highest rated video games ever.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Just give you. You might as well just scream at a brick wall till your voice gives out.

Welcome to the internet, where all arguemnts or logic is invalid to someone or other.

[remydat]

The thing is I am not even trying to persuade them. I like the game but I am wel aware I may be in the minority as I have had to listening to all the crying since the game was released. I just want my suffering through all the crying to mean something. The only thing more annoying than the 20 threads trashing the game is to find out after 2 years of trashing that it was all pointless because the people trashing the game hourly didn't have the strength of their convictions to actually stay true to their convictions and not buy ME4.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Even getting someone to give a little in their position, and admit that "You have a point" is in it of itself a heraclean challenge.

Unless your point is almost identical to there's, say for a minor difference, you will never get them to give you anything.

Give up. There is no other option in this internet fight.

[dreamgazer]

You have a point, Darth.

[remydat]

Perhaps but if I thought the outcome was inevitably I would be no different than thw Catalyst, lol.

[Reorte]

What company would want a reaction like that? Protests like the Occupy movement usually achieve nothing because the people who they're directed at have nothing to lose by ignoring them. However when you get a lot of people who are paying your bills up in arms any sensible company should seriously start worrying about what impact that'll have on its income. You don't sell stuff by upsetting your customers, particularly when your business is selling very non-essential items.

[Mathias]

remydat wrote...

Typical if it does not lead to impact. I was not referring to the gaming industry alone. There have been great controversies that ultimately achieved nothing. When I see evidence of this one achieving something of note then I will consider it. So far all you have to show is a few extra minutes in a game and unfulfilled promises. That may be your idea of impact but it is not mine. I am free to expect more before I declare this movement impactful.

Let me ask you did you think the occupy wallstreet movement had great impact?  I sure didnt.  For all the outcry what measurable impact resulted?

It led to them releasing a free DLC in attempt to address the complaints about the ending. Was the EC what we truly needed? No, but obviously some people were content with it, and it did at least fix some of the problems. As for Casey and Gamble stating that they learned their lesson, i'm inclined to believe them because I highly doubt they'd want to repeat the same monumental mistake they made a year ago.

Also i'm not even gonna compare a video game company to our goverment.

[Iakus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

It led to them releasing a free DLC in attempt to address the complaints about the ending. Was the EC what we truly needed? No, but obviously some people were content with it, and it did at least fix some of the problems. As for Casey and Gamble stating that they learned their lesson, i'm inclined to believe them because I highly doubt they'd want to repeat the same monumental mistake they made a year ago.

Obviously, they don't want a repeat of the mistake.

But I'm still concerned about what they in fact learned.  Did they pick up the right lesson, or are they going to continue to fumble about convinced that we are the "confused" ones?

[Clayless]

IanPolaris wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Yeah, though all those polls could be the same people voting, which is why it's best to go with the biggest one; The Retake Movement.

I am not a member of the Retake Movement, but my feelings are very clear.  That's why I dispute your methedology.

-Polaris

That just means you're part of the majority we don't have any figures on, along with me.

[Mathias]

iakus wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

It led to them releasing a free DLC in attempt to address the complaints about the ending. Was the EC what we truly needed? No, but obviously some people were content with it, and it did at least fix some of the problems. As for Casey and Gamble stating that they learned their lesson, i'm inclined to believe them because I highly doubt they'd want to repeat the same monumental mistake they made a year ago.

Obviously, they don't want a repeat of the mistake.

But I'm still concerned about what they in fact learned.  Did they pick up the right lesson, or are they going to continue to fumble about convinced that we are the "confused" ones?

Well I have an idea of what they have learned, and what they may of learned.

Obviously according the the interview, they have learned that dark endings and ambiguity don't roll well with the fans. They claimed that they "underestimated" how attached we were. I honestly think they're just coming up with excuses, because they had to have known what kind of fanbase the Mass Effect fans were. Hell I remember during production, a fan tweeted Casey if they'd be able to marry their LI, and Casey's answer was:

"We got you covered."

Now I could go into what a flat out lie that was, but i'm just brining up an example here. These people have interacted with the fans, and seen the reaction they have towards Shepard and Co. We've been with Shepard since the first game, shaping the choices he makes, the people he loves, and the struggles he had. He was the avatar of the player.

So hurr durr yea, of course the fans had a personal attachment to the protagonist and the story. If Casey and the rest are speaking the truth, then it's amazing that they had no idea fans were so attached.


Now as for what they may have learned, a lot of what was addressed in the EC were the plot holes. So I believe that they probably learned to not only have a well thought out plan for an ending in the future, but hopefully they won't be as foolish as to writing the ending themselves without peer review from the rest of the writing team. So here's hoping.

[Reorte]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Well I have an idea of what they have learned, and what they may of learned.

Obviously according the the interview, they have learned that dark endings and ambiguity don't roll well with the fans.

And there's part of the problem, because the reaction isn't against dark endings but inevitable, contrived dark endings - I doubt that there's a player who wanted a better ending who wouldn't also want a Reapers completely and utterly win, more so than they do with Refuse ending too. And if it's fairly easy to fall into it that would be OK too (just as long as it didn't become inevitable due to a decision made back in ME1).

Now as for what they may have learned, a lot of what was addressed in the EC were the plot holes. So I believe that they probably learned to not only have a well thought out plan for an ending in the future, but hopefully they won't be as foolish as to writing the ending themselves without peer review from the rest of the writing team. So here's hoping.

I beg to differ on that one.

[dreamgazer]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Hell I remember during production, a fan tweeted Casey if they'd be able to marry their LI, and Casey's answer was:

"We got you covered."

CaseyDHudson tweeted...

@CaseyDHudson When r u gonna give us a kromance? Beyond time! Hope u'll have gr8 relationship moments, some of my Sheps wanna get wed.
twitter.com/#!/Raving_Ranter/status/67422545137238016

@CaseyDHudson Also, please let Joker get with someone already, the man has SSSSOOO earned it!
twitter.com/#!/Raving_Ranter/status/67422662753927168

I think we've got you covered on all counts, except maybe the Kromance.
twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/67425501878296577

Eh.

[Mathias]

Reorte wrote...

I beg to differ on that one.

We'll see, I mean I can't predict the future, but there were some serious plot holes in that ending that created a lot of problems. It was embarressing how they didn't catch some of them. So i'm hoping they try to think things through better next time.

[Mathias]

dreamgazer wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Hell I remember during production, a fan tweeted Casey if they'd be able to marry their LI, and Casey's answer was:

"We got you covered."

CaseyDHudson tweeted...

@CaseyDHudson When r u gonna give us a kromance? Beyond time! Hope u'll have gr8 relationship moments, some of my Sheps wanna get wed.
twitter.com/#!/Raving_Ranter/status/67422545137238016

@CaseyDHudson Also, please let Joker get with someone already, the man has SSSSOOO earned it!
twitter.com/#!/Raving_Ranter/status/67422662753927168

I think we've got you covered on all counts, except maybe the Kromance.
twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/67425501878296577

Eh.

Holy crackers I can't believe you found it that easily. But yeah that was the one I was referring to.

[IanPolaris]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

I beg to differ on that one.

We'll see, I mean I can't predict the future, but there were some serious plot holes in that ending that created a lot of problems. It was embarressing how they didn't catch some of them. So i'm hoping they try to think things through better next time.

The EC created IMO just as many and just as serious plot-holes as it fixed.  My number one EC plothole is, "Don't worry about me Mr. Harbinger! I'll just let the Normandy HOVER IN FRONT OF YOUR MAIN OPTICS FOR THREE MINUTES and you will very nicely not shoot at me."

GAH!

-Polaris

[Kabraxal]

We'll see if they really learned their lessons. Citadel DLC bought them time, especially since it is now my headcanon ending. If DA3 actually tacks closer to what Origins was on top of that? I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt they won't pull an ME3 ending again.

[Mathias]

IanPolaris wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

I beg to differ on that one.

We'll see, I mean I can't predict the future, but there were some serious plot holes in that ending that created a lot of problems. It was embarressing how they didn't catch some of them. So i'm hoping they try to think things through better next time.

The EC created IMO just as many and just as serious plot-holes as it fixed.  My number one EC plothole is, "Don't worry about me Mr. Harbinger! I'll just let the Normandy HOVER IN FRONT OF YOUR MAIN OPTICS FOR THREE MINUTES and you will very nicely not shoot at me."

GAH!

-Polaris

I agree the EC also created some plot holes, but the really problematic ones were at least fixed. Don't get me wrong though, on a scale of 1-10, I was a 5 in terms of how satisfied I was with the EC. My two biggest issues were everything revolving around the Catalyst and the motivation of the Reapers, and the fact that Shepard dies in all endings. 

[remydat]

Mdoggy

Releasing a few extra minutes of footage and some still photos is not impact when all you guys are still mad. It's glorified lip service like me responding to my wife telling me to help around the house by picking up my dirty laundry off the floor and putting it in a waste basket and then sitting back down onbthe couch.

Like I said whether it had an impact remains to be seen.