1470 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Robosexual wrote...

Also because Bioshock Infinite doesn't have a coherent plot in the first place. Random things happen and then Booker gets punished because he never did something but did in an alternate oh no it appears I've gone cross-eyed.

Booker doesn't get punished for anything.

Do you even understand Bioshock Infinite's plot and ending? Doesn't seem like you do.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 14 mai 2013 - 02:26 .

[spirosz]

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The one thing I don't want to happen to Bioware especially is for them to feel threatened into making their stories bland, predictable or forgettable.

Their stories already are bland, predictable and forgettable. They're also inconsistent, illogical and sometimes slightly idiotic.

Then why are you here?  Why do you buy them at all?

He falls under the ego of knowing that the game won't impress him, so he can compare it to what he "considers" amazing, hahahaha.  And hey, why the **** not? 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The one thing I don't want to happen to Bioware especially is for them to feel threatened into making their stories bland, predictable or forgettable.

Their stories already are bland, predictable and forgettable. They're also inconsistent, illogical and sometimes slightly idiotic.

Then why are you here?  Why do you buy them at all?

Masochism.

[The Heretic of Time]

spirosz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The one thing I don't want to happen to Bioware especially is for them to feel threatened into making their stories bland, predictable or forgettable.

Their stories already are bland, predictable and forgettable. They're also inconsistent, illogical and sometimes slightly idiotic.

Then why are you here?  Why do you buy them at all?

He falls under the ego of knowing that the game won't impress him, so he can compare it to what he "considers" amazing, hahahaha.  And hey, why the **** not? 

What the hell are you talking about man?

[Foxhound2121]

Well it makes me feel better that Casey Hudson at least recognizes the problem and will work better on endings.

It's a big step from denying there was a problem all together as much of their PR departments on twitter were doing for such a long time.

So yes, I'll forgive Casey this time.

[spirosz]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spirosz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The one thing I don't want to happen to Bioware especially is for them to feel threatened into making their stories bland, predictable or forgettable.

Their stories already are bland, predictable and forgettable. They're also inconsistent, illogical and sometimes slightly idiotic.

Then why are you here?  Why do you buy them at all?

He falls under the ego of knowing that the game won't impress him, so he can compare it to what he "considers" amazing, hahahaha.  And hey, why the **** not? 

What the hell are you talking about man?

What I said was pretty straightfoward.  Your first point "Their stories" (more than one), so you're generalizing and I'm assuming you're going in with pretty low expectations already, even before playing any of their recent titles and you express yourself as having superior gaming taste, as I've seen from your older posts.  

[Iakus]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

Well it makes me feel better that Casey Hudson at least recognizes the problem and will work better on endings.

It's a big step from denying there was a problem all together as much of their PR departments on twitter were doing for such a long time.

So yes, I'll forgive Casey this time.

"Words mean nothing until you turn them into action, Garrus.  What are you going to do about it?"

[The Heretic of Time]

spirosz wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spirosz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

The one thing I don't want to happen to Bioware especially is for them to feel threatened into making their stories bland, predictable or forgettable.

Their stories already are bland, predictable and forgettable. They're also inconsistent, illogical and sometimes slightly idiotic.

Then why are you here?  Why do you buy them at all?

He falls under the ego of knowing that the game won't impress him, so he can compare it to what he "considers" amazing, hahahaha.  And hey, why the **** not? 

What the hell are you talking about man?

What I said was pretty straightfoward.  Your first point "Their stories" (more than one), so you're generalizing and I'm assuming you're going in with pretty low expectations already, even before playing any of their recent titles and you express yourself as having superior gaming taste, as I've seen from your older posts.  

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

spirosz wrote...

...and I'm assuming...

Don't.

spirosz wrote...

...as I've seen from your older posts.  

No you didn't.

[spirosz]

Yes I have, especially when you get a chance to compare anything to the Witcher series and it's quality.

[Archonsg]

Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So you stop Bookers actions in the past and Comstock never exists.

You could say that Brooker is making up for a sin that crossed over in to alternate realities

So stop Bookers involvement in events that triggered the baptism and Comstock never exists, but Booker lives.

There's no need to feel bad because a different person stamped on a cats in in a different reality, there's nothing to make up for, you don't even inhabit the same plane of existence. In fact that person wont even exist in the first place, according to Infinite.

Robosexual gets it.
Its one of the flaws whether intended or not by Mr Levine that there are infinite possibilities to an existence.
It is also about convergence, that no matter the possibilities, there are events that are focus points in an existence.

For example, Booker *always* gives Anna up. Booker, given his past always seek redemption by going to the Baptism pond.
Booker always is involved in the actions of the Calvary unit present at Wounded Knee and the other conflicts, which drove him to go into a spiral of drink, gambling and debt, hence leading to his selling Anna. 

Note that the ending scene where Comstock no longer exists Booker is *still* in debt, the only difference, it is hinted at that baby Anna is in her crib.

Anyways Robo correctly pointed out that the Baptism pond *isn't* the only point where Comstock's inception could be stopped.

Now coming back to ME3, the reason why this ending worked for Bioshock Infinite and not for ME3 is because regardless of choice, regardless of consequences (Booker on the player's attempt was his 123rd time) both Booker and the player are given a chance at redemption, to get to an end where *both* player and the Character see and realize that through his sacrifice a better future, one devoid of Comstock would be possible for both Booker and Elizabeth/Anna.

ME3's ending didn't give some of us that sense of redemption / worth / satisfaction. Take your pick.

For example, My perspective *always* will see Shepard acting in surrender, capitulating on all but one choice to an insane AI's ultimatum and acted in two counts of suicide and one count of attempted suicide. The one choice that allows both you the player and Shepard to stand up for the rights of *everyone* in the galaxy, you loose.

Has Vietnam/Korea/Afghanistan/Middle East beaten down the psychic of a people so much that acceptance to a defeatist ideal is preferable to one where you *could* win?
Post WW2, such thinking was, unimaginable.

Modifié par Archonsg, 14 mai 2013 - 02:42 .

[Clayless]

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

According to Infinite Comstock only exists because of the choice that happened at the baptism scene, so killing Booker at the baptism scene stops every Comstock from existing ever.

A more logical option would be to stop Bookers involvement in the events that led to the baptism scene and Comstocks creation, rather than waiting until those events had unfolded.

Which could be a lot more than just two Wars he fought in

No, it's made very clear throughout the game that the baptism scene happened because of guilt over Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee.

Stop Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee and you stop the baptism scene from ever needing to happen, which stops Comstock from ever existing in every reality.

[AresKeith]

Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

According to Infinite Comstock only exists because of the choice that happened at the baptism scene, so killing Booker at the baptism scene stops every Comstock from existing ever.

A more logical option would be to stop Bookers involvement in the events that led to the baptism scene and Comstocks creation, rather than waiting until those events had unfolded.

Which could be a lot more than just two Wars he fought in

No, it's made very clear throughout the game that the baptism scene happened because of guilt over Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee.

Stop Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee and you stop the baptism scene from ever needing to happen, which stops Comstock from ever existing in every reality.

And how do you plan to stop Brookers involvement at Wounded Knee?

[Modius Prime]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about Mass Effect? I keep seeing people talk about other games, so please stay on topic. I enjoy reading everyone's comments here, but some of the stuff said lately *is* hardly relevant.

Modifié par Modius Prime, 14 mai 2013 - 02:58 .

[Clayless]

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

No, it's made very clear throughout the game that the baptism scene happened because of guilt over Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee.

Stop Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee and you stop the baptism scene from ever needing to happen, which stops Comstock from ever existing in every reality.

And how do you plan to stop Brookers involvement at Wounded Knee?

The interdimensional beings that directly intervene multiple times, with the sole purpose of stopping those events from happening, to the extent that they stop entire realities from existing, easily could. Or the Elizabeth could stop him from joining the 7th Cavalry too.

[The Night Mammoth]

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

According to Infinite Comstock only exists because of the choice that happened at the baptism scene, so killing Booker at the baptism scene stops every Comstock from existing ever.

A more logical option would be to stop Bookers involvement in the events that led to the baptism scene and Comstocks creation, rather than waiting until those events had unfolded.

Which could be a lot more than just two Wars he fought in

No, it's made very clear throughout the game that the baptism scene happened because of guilt over Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee.

Stop Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee and you stop the baptism scene from ever needing to happen, which stops Comstock from ever existing in every reality.

And how do you plan to stop Brookers involvement at Wounded Knee?

That could potentially create a paradox, where Anna is never born, so can't stop the events of Wounded knee in the future. 

[dreamgazer]

... aaaaaannnnd that's why I generally dislike time-travel stories.

Learn that lesson, BioWare.

[spirosz]

5 bucks there will be speculation in DA III.

[AresKeith]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

According to Infinite Comstock only exists because of the choice that happened at the baptism scene, so killing Booker at the baptism scene stops every Comstock from existing ever.

A more logical option would be to stop Bookers involvement in the events that led to the baptism scene and Comstocks creation, rather than waiting until those events had unfolded.

Which could be a lot more than just two Wars he fought in

No, it's made very clear throughout the game that the baptism scene happened because of guilt over Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee.

Stop Bookers involvement at Wounded Knee and you stop the baptism scene from ever needing to happen, which stops Comstock from ever existing in every reality.

And how do you plan to stop Brookers involvement at Wounded Knee?

That could potentially create a paradox, where Anna is never born, so can't stop the events of Wounded knee in the future. 

And that's why the Baptism event is the only logical way to stop Comstock without creating a possibly paradox

[Archonsg]

@Areskeith

Time travel is tricky.
Again we can use the grandfather paradox to remove Booker from ever assigned at Wounded Knee, (would not be much of a story for a shooter if we did though) or stop him from committing whatever act that compelled him to seek redemption.

Heck, if you really get down to it, all Booker had to do to stop Comstock in ever existing was to go back to the point where his grandfather/great grandfather or whatever number of generations back to the point of his family's origin and shoot his foreparents, that would cease his existence.

Again, it would not be much of a story for a shooter.
Stopping the events at Wounded Knee might work though.

Modifié par Archonsg, 14 mai 2013 - 03:13 .

[The Night Mammoth]

spirosz wrote...

5 bucks there will be speculation in DA III.

I'll take that bet, 5 of theses 'bucks' is only like three fiddy in real money. 

[spirosz]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

spirosz wrote...

5 bucks there will be speculation in DA III.

I'll take that bet, 5 of theses 'bucks' is only like three fiddy in real money. 

Deal. 

[spirosz]

flip a coin? Night?

[Archonsg]

Coming back to ME3;

Casey Hudson : "Lesson learned! ME-NextGen alternate reality time travel! All your favorite MEU races in the Metacon War! Now Speculate!"

[The Night Mammoth]

I'm pretty sure it was 'rationalized' with the whole 'constants and variables' thing. Booker is a constant. The baptism is a variable. Making the choice is a point of divergence. Going back in one reality to stop one Comstock does nothing but kill one Comstock. Elizabeth killed all Comstocks by going back to the epicenter, the point of divergence (the baptism) in every reality at once.

[Clayless]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

And how do you plan to stop Brookers involvement at Wounded Knee?

That could potentially create a paradox, where Anna is never born, so can't stop the events of Wounded knee in the future. 

That's not the case. When Booker dies at the baptism, Anna is never born in the first place. She never exists.

Stopping Booker at Wounded Knee would also mean Anna never exists. It doesn't matter if you wait until the baptism, she's not going to exist regardless, the only difference is Booker gets to live and Comstock doesn't exist in any reality.