1470 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Boy, you are a very tedious person. And deluded, if you consider much of what goes on here as 'critiquing a text.'

[Megaton_Hope]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, isn't this heartwarming.

Interesting how the innumerable amount of completely baseless insults against Mass Effect and BioWare are entirely ignored. But that's okay, isn't it? Be as nasty as you like, but God forbid someone responds in kind.

Are you Mass Effect or Bioware? I thought you were DavidNumbers.

[David7204]

If someone is making ridiculous accusations based on nonsense, I'm going to point it out. It doesn't matter to whom those accusations are directed to. It often means defending people and concepts I don't particularly like.

[drayfish]

David7204 wrote...

Boy, you are a very tedious person. And deluded, if you consider much of what goes on here as 'critiquing a text.'

Just not a fan of bullies who hide behind pretension.

And it's ironic to hear you complaining, as it is people shouting at and berating others the way that you constantly do that frequently makes discussion on the BSN impossible.

Modifié par drayfish, 15 mai 2013 - 01:00 .

[Kel Riever]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, isn't this heartwarming.

Interesting how the innumerable amount of completely baseless insults against Mass Effect and BioWare are entirely ignored. But that's okay, isn't it? Be as nasty as you like, but God forbid someone responds in kind.

Are you Batman?

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, isn't this heartwarming.

Interesting how the innumerable amount of completely baseless insults against Mass Effect and BioWare are entirely ignored. But that's okay, isn't it? Be as nasty as you like, but God forbid someone responds in kind.

Are you being paid by EA or something? Do they pay you to post here to defend their crap?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 15 mai 2013 - 02:58 .

[Clayless]

What on earth are you all doing. Jesus this page is tedious to read. If someone insults you ignore it, you might learn more if you concentrate on their arguments rather than spending time like you're in the playground. I guess it's up to me to take this back on topic.

David7204 wrote...

So what do you think would have been necessary elements for Priority: Earth to be good?

To make it better I'd say more war assets in action, and not just the "big" war assets, even smaller things like seeing
individuals you saved do things. Like seeing Miranda save Kahlee Sanders for example.

Also make it something like a cross between the suicide mission and the Citadel DLC. You command all your crew from thoughout the 3 games, all leading up to a more dramatic scene with the destroyer where your squadmates fight from the sidelines to protect you from the bulk of the enemies.

Modifié par Robosexual, 15 mai 2013 - 03:16 .

[Megaton_Hope]

I think that the final mission could have been improved considerably by omitting the groundside portion. The Citadel still seems to be an open-ended tube, with the space ports built on the open end. We're approaching in a stealth ship from space. The game's based around leading small squads in shooting matches in different environments. Just have a claustrophobic, shifting environment full of husk things in there.

After a sufficiently screwed up series of events, an opportunity to activate the Crucible, in which the failure of the device to activate is a possibility. (Perhaps based on EMS, or performance in one of those "hold this point for X minutes" things.)

And no exposition lumps or slow motion crawls toward things, those are a real drag. Fridge logic doesn't hold up to that kind of things, dudes.

[Kel Riever]

Robosexual wrote...

What on earth are you all doing. Jesus this page is tedious to read. If someone insults you ignore it, you might learn more if you concentrate on their arguments rather than spending time like you're in the playground. I guess it's up to me to take this back on topic.

David7204 wrote...

So what do you think would have been necessary elements for Priority: Earth to be good?

To make it better I'd say more war assets in action, and not just the "big" war assets, even smaller things like seeing
individuals you saved do things. Like seeing Miranda save Kahlee Sanders for example.

Also make it something like a cross between the suicide mission and the Citadel DLC. You command all your crew from thoughout the 3 games, all leading up to a more dramatic scene with the destroyer where your squadmates fight from the sidelines to protect you from the bulk of the enemies.

Aha, YOU are Batman!  Congrats for getting this back on topic.  I will agree with yuou on this...when I finished the game, at first, I didn't think about the War Assets not being shown because, well, ending fail.  BUT, going back, I do think that showing the War Assets in action more would have massively improved the game.  Now, for me, sure, it wouldn't have changed my ultimate experience of the end, and reaction to the series.  Still doesn't mean it would have been a bad idea.  Particularly when it comes to squadmates doing things.

It also would have made a big difference to have that Alliance fleet battle include an actual, vast diversity of the ships of the various nations.  You would think, over the course of Mass Effect, only the Turians and Alliance have a fleet to fight the Reapers with.  Well, the Quarians have a fleet...to only fight the Geth with.  And there's the Destiny Ascension...and that's it for the Asari.  Having spent all this time getting special ships together, I really don't think it would have been that much more work to add them to the fleet final scene.  Certainly less than animating characters.  And regardless of how much work it took, it still would have been worth it.

[Eshaye]

It's kinda silly they still have their heads firmly held under the sand. Your ending was crap, your handling of how the trilogy would be explained was crap. The character closure was secondary to that and will always be.

The rage doesn't come from not having spent enough time with the squaddies, it was about choosing a retarded reason for the Reapers to exist.

Robosexual wrote...


Also make it something like a cross between the suicide mission and the Citadel DLC. You command all your crew from thoughout the 3 games, all leading up to a more dramatic scene with the destroyer where your squadmates fight from the sidelines to protect you from the bulk of the enemies.

Also This ^

Modifié par Eshaye, 15 mai 2013 - 03:13 .

[thejake1453]

Not gonna read through fifty pages, but I read the article.
Kind of annoyed me, they're blaming us again.
We don't want you to learn about putting more "closure" time in with our favourite characters, we won't you to learn how to write better endings.
People got mad because your ending was poorly written and bad. If it made sense and was well written, we wouldn't have cared if Shepard had died and we didn't know if the Crew lived happily ever after.
Some of us would have but there wouldn't be the huge outcry that occurred
Seriously, I'd have mad respect if they just came out and said "Yeah look, we ****ed up, and we're going to learn from that".

[Mathias]

thejake1453 wrote...

Not gonna read through fifty pages, but I read the article.
Kind of annoyed me, they're blaming us again.
We don't want you to learn about putting more "closure" time in with our favourite characters, we won't you to learn how to write better endings.
People got mad because your ending was poorly written and bad. If it made sense and was well written, we wouldn't have cared if Shepard had died and we didn't know if the Crew lived happily ever after.
Some of us would have but there wouldn't be the huge outcry that occurred
Seriously, I'd have mad respect if they just came out and said "Yeah look, we ****ed up, and we're going to learn from that".

Well i've always said part of being an adult is being able to admit when you've made a mistake.

[thejake1453]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

thejake1453 wrote...

Not gonna read through fifty pages, but I read the article.
Kind of annoyed me, they're blaming us again.
We don't want you to learn about putting more "closure" time in with our favourite characters, we won't you to learn how to write better endings.
People got mad because your ending was poorly written and bad. If it made sense and was well written, we wouldn't have cared if Shepard had died and we didn't know if the Crew lived happily ever after.
Some of us would have but there wouldn't be the huge outcry that occurred
Seriously, I'd have mad respect if they just came out and said "Yeah look, we ****ed up, and we're going to learn from that".

Well i've always said part of being an adult is being able to admit when you've made a mistake.

Then you've always been right.

I've always thought the existence of the Indoctrination Theory (which I do not support) is kind of evidence of their mistake.
You guys made an ending so bad that parts of the community thought that what is, essentially the ME equivalent of "It was all a dream" would be a better ending. When people think that is better then you done messed up son

[Iakus]

thejake1453 wrote...

I've always thought the existence of the Indoctrination Theory (which I do not support) is kind of evidence of their mistake.
You guys made an ending so bad that parts of the community thought that what is, essentially the ME equivalent of "It was all a dream" would be a better ending. When people think that is better then you done messed up son

Indeed.

Plus adding a "Reapers win" option which to many is as viable a choice as any other.

They done messed up.  A lot.  Seriously rookie mistakes.

Modifié par iakus, 15 mai 2013 - 11:01 .

[Archonsg]

For starters, Priority Earth needs a serious overhaul.
A huge part ofthe ddisappointment I felt was getting to Priority Earth thinking, "Frack yeah! NOW we TAKE BACK EARTH!" you know, as advertised?

Expecting in no small part that all that effort taken into gathering all your war assets would be yours to command, or at the very least, see in action  against the Reapers. 

Right. 
Didn't happen, and when even "key"  decisions such as that with the Rachni and Collector's base become nothing but a number to be swept under the EMS pile, its a recipe for dissatisfaction. 

Suicide mission 2.0
Lets face it, if there was a need for a "Dirty Dozen" or "Guns of Navarone" scenario, this was it.
Most of all, if you want to have Shepard die, for pity's sake let him/her die in victory with a little dignity *fighting* the reapers instead of playing Neville Chamberlain and accepting a choice of suicide A, B or C.

Modifié par Archonsg, 16 mai 2013 - 02:31 .

[FlamingBoy]

Well they never actually "fixed" it.
It just sounds like the same damn PR bioware is really becoming known for

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 16 mai 2013 - 06:23 .

[WolfyZA]

QUESTION!!!!

Why every time when they ask these guys what went wrong with the ending they simpley answer.. "They got so attached to their SM that they couldnt say goodbye"???

WTF!!!! Man we didn't hate the ending because we craved more interaction with SM! We were pissed because we were PROMISED awesome ENDINGS!!!!! And a lot of them too.... I for one wasn't PO because I couldn't say goodbye to my LI, I was pissed off because we got a cop out.. For God sakes, people even made theories up becuase they couldnt believe BW took this overly sued ending to a story..Oh and did I mention.... The ending didnt make sense.. AT ALL!?!?! even with EC it just had a few power point presentation pictures scanning over the screen.... WTF... WTF!!!

So BW please from one of your customers... We didnt hate the endings seeing we were so attached to our characters, I hated the ending becuase I bought into you BS PR. Then felt cheated when the game was the exact oppisite then you promised us it would be.. I know I'm beating a dead horse.. But don't put the blame on "SM attachment" or "closure".. It was becuase of a non existant climax.. And a even more dreadfull antagonist that should've never existed to begin with!!

*end of rant...

Modifié par WolfyZA, 16 mai 2013 - 11:47 .

[Clayless]

thejake1453 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Well i've always said part of being an adult is being able to admit when you've made a mistake.

Then you've always been right.

I've always thought the existence of the Indoctrination Theory (which I do not support) is kind of evidence of their mistake.
You guys made an ending so bad that parts of the community thought that what is, essentially the ME equivalent of "It was all a dream" would be a better ending. When people think that is better then you done messed up son

Another adult thing is when you realise that imagining something is a mistake doesn't actually make it so. I could think that (any media ever) is a mistake, but expecting the people who made it to, erm, "admit" that isn't something that adults should expect. Usually adults can tell the difference between reality and their opinion.

Modifié par Robosexual, 16 mai 2013 - 11:42 .

[thejake1453]

If you're going to use that example, there's no point to the word "mistake" existing at all because it's all imagining.
Look: They said that the ending would be one thing, it turned out to be another.
Now, the very definition of mistake is:

noun
1.
an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

There isn't a single person on this planet who is imagining that bioware made a mistake, they DID make a mistake, by sheer definition of the term.
And now they're making another mistake, by blaming the fanbase and saying the reason that we didn't like the ending was because we were so attached to the squaddies/LI. Which is false.

Modifié par thejake1453, 16 mai 2013 - 11:57 .

[JamesFaith]

WolfyZA wrote...

QUESTION!!!!

Why every time when they ask these guys, what went wrong with the ending they bring up the characters???

WTF man we didn't hate the ending because we craved interaction with SM, we were pissed, because we were PROMISED awesome ENDINGS!!!!! I for one wasn't PO because I couldn't say goodbye to my LI, I was pissed off because we got a cop out.. For God sakes, people even made theories up seeing the ending didnt make sense.. AT ALL!!!


So BW please from one of your customers... We didnt hate the endings seeing we were so attached to our characters, I hated the ending becuase I bought into you BS. then felt cheated when the game was the exact oppisite then you promised us.. YOUR FANS it would be!

*end of rant...

Maybe because it really was one of main complain after releasing ME3?

And what is more important, lack of closure for your characters was objective fault, when quality of ending is subjective problem for each player. There were people, who like it, hate it and don't care about it. And even those who critised endings had different problems with it - what was problem for one critic wasn't problem for another and contrariwise.

Do you feel cheated? It is your right. Do everyone who played ME3 feel cheated? Surely not. So why should they apologize for cheating their fans when it wouldn't be complete true? In fact it would be same PR talks like this critisied article, only one difference would be here - it would be PR some people want to hear.

[KLGChaos]

I don't think it's so much that people don't like bittersweet endings or can't handle them. It's just that when you give so much control over a character and their actions, people are going want to want to see the full spectrum of those choices reflected in the endings-- happy, bleak, bittersweet, etc. When every ending is bittersweet, you're only appealing to part of the fan base.

A game like Bioshock can get away with it, because though you're connecting with the characters, you're not really creating them, you're not shaping the world around you with your choices. You're playing a pre-determined script, just like you would if you were watching a movie.

A game where choices are the most important part of the story needs to provide various forms of closure to satisfy those choices and not force one type of ending on everyone. Some people play to be moved, some people play because they want to be the hero and save everyone by playing perfectly, some are just happy surviving, while others want to go out in a blaze of glory and give everything they have (including their lives) to win. If you don't at least appeal to the various personality types in a game of choices, you're going to alienate a LOT of people.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 16 mai 2013 - 11:03 .

[Shinobu]

The lesson I hope they learned is that closure comes at the END.

Having a party in the middle of the game is nice, but it does not provide closure.
Saying goodbye before the final fight is nice, but it does not provide closure.
Saying goodbye (again!) during the evacuation is nice, but it does not provide closure.
Seeing epilogue slides that don't show any of the main characters is nice, but it does not provide closure.

I'm resigned to never getting closure at this point.

[Megaton_Hope]

Robosexual wrote...
Another adult thing is when you realise that imagining something is a mistake doesn't actually make it so. I could think that (any media ever) is a mistake, but expecting the people who made it to, erm, "admit" that isn't something that adults should expect. Usually adults can tell the difference between reality and their opinion.

I have an example.

I call it Highlander 2. The basic gist is that the immortal Scotsman from the previous film was actually a space alien, exiled from his world for a rebellion that took place there. He is now pursued by the dictator who had taken over that world and his assassins. (No suggestion of any of this existed in the first film, and the present-day setting was shifted to a distant future dystopian wasteland.)

Spoony deconstructs the "artistic choices" made in this sequel rather well:

http://spoonyexperim...-review-part-1/
http://spoonyexperim...-review-part-2/

Now, was that film a mistake? I would argue that it was.

[Clayless]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Robosexual wrote...
Another adult thing is when you realise that imagining something is a mistake doesn't actually make it so. I could think that (any media ever) is a mistake, but expecting the people who made it to, erm, "admit" that isn't something that adults should expect. Usually adults can tell the difference between reality and their opinion.

I have an example.

I call it Highlander 2. The basic gist is that the immortal Scotsman from the previous film was actually a space alien, exiled from his world for a rebellion that took place there. He is now pursued by the dictator who had taken over that world and his assassins. (No suggestion of any of this existed in the first film, and the present-day setting was shifted to a distant future dystopian wasteland.)

Spoony deconstructs the "artistic choices" made in this sequel rather well:

http://spoonyexperim...-review-part-1/
http://spoonyexperim...-review-part-2/

Now, was that film a mistake? I would argue that it was.

An opinion then?

Good to see you acknowledge the difference between opinion and reality.

[dreamgazer]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Robosexual wrote...
Another adult thing is when you realise that imagining something is a mistake doesn't actually make it so. I could think that (any media ever) is a mistake, but expecting the people who made it to, erm, "admit" that isn't something that adults should expect. Usually adults can tell the difference between reality and their opinion.

I have an example.

I call it Highlander 2. 

-snip-

Are we really equating Mass Effect 3's issues with Highlander 2? 

Because, I mean, damn.