Aller au contenu

Photo

Will Elves Get Dales Back in Dragon Age 3 Inquisition? [Dales Is in Orlais]


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
283 réponses à ce sujet

#126
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...
Your line about the Dalish being "segregated" and "racially pure", when their kingdom kept out an empire of conquerors who were trying to create a society under one single religion, and the remanants of that society are currently nomadic because the templars hunt them down and Andrastians are often intolerant towards them as elves and heathens.  


That's all quite terrible, but none of it justifies the moral value of either racial segregation or the general Dalish ideology of racial purity. These are just prima facie adhorent ideals, no matter what gloss you're giving them.

Again, it pertained to your line about the Dalish being "segregated" and "racially pure". I don't think having a kingdom where the elves won't be viewed as less than people, and where they can worship their religion freely (since it was outlawed by the Andrastian Chantry) is a bad thing.


It's not a bad thing. It's, in fact, a wonderful thing. But a kingdom where the elves are free to worship whatever religion they wish and are treated as equal citizens has nothing to do with an all-elven kingdom that has an absolute policy to exclude humans on the hypothetical basis that they carry some magical plague, with the actual express long-term goal of the state to create a race of all-mage elven immortals. 

See, one goal is laudable and based on social justice. The other is just racist supremacist ideology. 

However, we also have examples where the Dalish adopted humans, from the historical Aveline to Feynriel (who is technically human, since the children of humans and elves are human).


Which totally goes against the ideology of racial purity and keeping humans away because of a nonsensical hypothical mortality plague. Again - totally laudable act that Marethari does, but entirely the opposite of everything that I find offensive about what the Dalish believe about themselves, other elves, or humans. 

Furthermore, it's possible the elves living in the occupied kingdom of the Dales might have held onto the traditions of their ancestors, and the Dalish are meeting in the Dales now. Regardless, the Dalish are said to be gathering in Halamshiral, for the Arlathvhen.


That's all well and good, but again, there's a difference between what the Dalish want and what the elves want.

I recall Hawke standing idly by while two templars took Bethany away to the Circle of Kirkwall, where he knew mages were being made tranquil illegally. Or not bothering to warn his mother that there's a serial killer on the loose who targets women. The argument that Hawke is protecting his family doesn't carry much weight with me when he does nothing of the kind.


Then the argument that Merrill gives a damn about the elves, when she lives for a decade in the poverty ridden alienage and does nothing as people are beaten and starve around her should undermine any notion that she's taking any action to help the elves. 

And her comments about how horrible the conditions in the alienage are, and how she's never known about it, should undermine any notion that she has any idea or expertiese in how bad life really is for the elves. 

Communication over fast distances has fundamentally altered our society, which is one of the facets of the Eluvians.


You mean, communicate fast over great distances. And that hasn't done anything for our society. The most impovrished humans on the planet how have access to the telephone. How has that improved their life at all? It's not talking to people far away that matters - it's the economic and social developments that come about as a result of that, and the elves don't have even a remotely functioning society to be able to do that.

And what do you think will happen if word gets out that the Dalish have this amazing technology? Tevinter will try to enslave the lot of them faster than you can say "magisters-failed-to-recreate-what?" 

Why do you think that wouldn't be true for the Dalish? Or travelling to the place Morrigan wanted to go to because it would enpower her. 


We have absolutely no idea what's beyond the Fade, and Morrigan suggests that the Warden can't even return when going through it. For all we know it's a desolate land of terror and death. 

Given that Merrill was the one who studied the lore on the Eluvian, she seemed to think it could benefit the People.


Merrill thinks that it's worth recovering the history of her people, because that's the role of the Keeper. Only in your mind did Merrill intending anything other than what she expressly says, on multiple occassions, she's doing. 

Merrill explicitly says that she was trying to help her people, and she's willing to risk her life if the outcome can benefit the Dalish.


Merril says she's recovering their history, and that's how she's helping. Pretending otherwise is just lying. 

I wasn't aware I needed to address every single possibility every time I address something that interests me.


It's generally a good idea to think your requests through and actually ask for what you want. Racial choice doesn't mean getting what you want. 

#127
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Then the argument that Merrill gives a damn about the elves, when she lives for a decade in the poverty ridden alienage and does nothing as people are beaten and starve around her should undermine any notion that she's taking any action to help the elves.

So what exactly do you want her to do? Mind control the Viscount into giving more money to the Alienage? Actually, that might not be the world's worst idea, but given templar paranoia all over city, pulling it off would be on the difficult side.

#128
Hazegurl

Hazegurl
  • Members
  • 4 927 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...

Any companion (with the exception of Varric, who is mandatory at this point in the storyline) who accompanies Hawke into the Deep Roads is venturing there at the protagonist's behest, to risk their life so Hawke can become wealthy and purchase a mansion.

With the exception of Varric, the others are risking their lives in the Deep Roads because Hawke brings them along - and Hawke's goal is to gain riches from the expedition. Nothing you're saying is disputing what I said previously.


The only thing I am disputing is your claim that Hawke's situation is similar to Merrill's. It isn't. No one is on Merrill's side in the repairing of her mirror, she is risking the lives of her clan members and no one agrees or even wants her to.

The difference here is that Merrill is risking the lives of people who want nothing at all to do with what she is doing. Hawke's purpose behind the deep roads doesn't even matter.

Hawke can support Merrill, instead of bullying her and intimidating her in Rivalry. As for the others, they disagree with a course of action they are completely ignorant about. Merrill might have culture shock about human society, but none of them know anything about the plight of the People, the lore of the Eluvian, or the potential that this ancient technology has to revitalize the Dalish from their decline.


He doesn't bully her at all. He was told to keep the tool from her by an Elven clan leader. He knows that everyone in her clan have a problem with her and her mirror. It is perfectly rational to listen to the clan leader over her. As a matter of fact, I would say that rival Hawke cares a lot more for Merrill's safety and well being than friend Hawke does. Which is why when I played my jerk Hawke, I gave her the tool no questions asked and would have gutted her like a fish if she had become possessed.

Merrill is scared because Anders is giving her a dose of truth as to what she could become if she doesn't stop what she is doing. She has no one around to cosign her nonsense. Besides, if Merrill becomes weak that is her own problem, its not Hawke's duty to make her strong.

And yes Merrill is offensive and narrow minded. Like it's so rational for Hawke to believe that she can out smart a demon when she doesn't even understand certain words, phrases, and even jokes. She is terribly naive yet Hawke is supposed to think everything will be okay with her asking a demon for advice.  Hawke is also supposed to just keep on encourgaing her to deal with a mirror that she would rather stare at then eat, sleep or take proper care of herself. Like I said Friendship Hawke is nothing but an enabler in Merrill's case.

Also, Merrill needs to look to the future of her people and leave the past in the past. She thinks that getting possessed and killed is worth it just for a small piece of info from it completely ignoring the fact that if she is posessed and killed then no one would benefit from the knowledge anyway. :pinched:

#129
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

The only thing I am disputing is your claim that Hawke's situation is similar to Merrill's. It isn't. No one is on Merrill's side in the repairing of her mirror, she is risking the lives of her clan members and no one agrees or even wants her to.

I'm on her side. Hell, if they don't want it, I'd love to know more.

#130
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Xilizhra wrote...
So what exactly do you want her to do? Mind control the Viscount into giving more money to the Alienage? Actually, that might not be the world's worst idea, but given templar paranoia all over city, pulling it off would be on the difficult side.


I don't expect Merrill to do anything, because I don't think her goal is (or should be) some grand plan to improve the lot of all elves. I think her focus on restoring her people's history is laudable. I think she fails because of how completely socially unaware she is, and how she's too inwardly focused to realize that Audacity is taking advantage of her isolation to control Marethari. 

But I don't think Merrill has turn to some broad idea of "improving the lot of the elves" to justify her use of blood magic to cleanse the shard, or her goal to restore the Eluvian. 

Edit: To clarify, I support Merrill in her deal with Audacity. But if she's going to deal with a demon, then she has to take responsibilty for the demon. Throwing her hands up in the air and saying that she isolated herself doesn't absolv her from the responsibility of making sure the demon isn't taking advantage of her choices to empower itself, which is what Audacity does when it exploits her absence with Marethari.

Modifié par In Exile, 10 mai 2013 - 02:48 .


#131
Hazegurl

Hazegurl
  • Members
  • 4 927 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

The only thing I am disputing is your claim that Hawke's situation is similar to Merrill's. It isn't. No one is on Merrill's side in the repairing of her mirror, she is risking the lives of her clan members and no one agrees or even wants her to.

I'm on her side. Hell, if they don't want it, I'd love to know more.


Then I'll rephrase it to say that player Hawke can be on her side. ^_^

#132
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Hazegurl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Any companion (with the exception of Varric, who is mandatory at this point in the storyline) who accompanies Hawke into the Deep Roads is venturing there at the protagonist's behest, to risk their life so Hawke can become wealthy and purchase a mansion.

With the exception of Varric, the others are risking their lives in the Deep Roads because Hawke brings them along - and Hawke's goal is to gain riches from the expedition. Nothing you're saying is disputing what I said previously.


The only thing I am disputing is your claim that Hawke's situation is similar to Merrill's. It isn't. No one is on Merrill's side in the repairing of her mirror, she is risking the lives of her clan members and no one agrees or even wants her to.


This is factually inaccurate. Hawke can support Merrill, while everyone else is ignorant about what Merrill is doing. No one knows about the Eluvians, no one knows about elven culture, and no one understands the plight that is faced by the People. Merrill is trying to do something about this. Even Marethari doesn't seem to have put any effort into researching the lore on the Eluvian like Merrill has. You seem to expect me to take the word of the ignorant over the person who did the research on the lore she gathered, and even extrapolated information from the shard she took in the Elven Ruins.

Also, Marethari is the one who endangers the clan by releasing Audacity and becoming an abomination without warning anyone. That isn't Merrill's fault.

Hazegurl wrote...

The difference here is that Merrill is risking the lives of people who want nothing at all to do with what she is doing. Hawke's purpose behind the deep roads doesn't even matter.


Wrong. Merrill isn't risking anyone else's life in her endeavor, while Hawke certainly is with his goal to become wealthy.

Hazegurl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke can support Merrill, instead of bullying her and intimidating her in Rivalry. As for the others, they disagree with a course of action they are completely ignorant about. Merrill might have culture shock about human society, but none of them know anything about the plight of the People, the lore of the Eluvian, or the potential that this ancient technology has to revitalize the Dalish from their decline.


He doesn't bully her at all. He was told to keep the tool from her by an Elven clan leader.


Rivalry Hawke does bully her, and Keeper Marethari had no right to give the Arulin'Holm to anyone but Merrill because she was the one who invoked vir sulevanan.

Hazegurl wrote...

He knows that everyone in her clan have a problem with her and her mirror. It is perfectly rational to listen to the clan leader over her. As a matter of fact, I would say that rival Hawke cares a lot more for Merrill's safety and well being than friend Hawke does. Which is why when I played my jerk Hawke, I gave her the tool no questions asked and would have gutted her like a fish if she had become possessed.


Everyone in the Sabare clan disagrees with Merrill's decision because Marethari said so. That's it. It's a really weak excuse. And I found Rivalry Hawke delorable, and I already cited an example that shows how much more confidant Merrill is in Friendship.

Hazegurl wrote...

Merrill is scared because Anders is giving her a dose of truth as to what she could become if she doesn't stop what she is doing. She has no one around to cosign her nonsense. Besides, if Merrill becomes weak that is her own problem, its not Hawke's duty to make her strong.


Merrill is scared because Rivalry Hawke has weakened her confidence to such an extent.

Hazegurl wrote...

And yes Merrill is offensive and narrow minded. Like it's so rational for Hawke to believe that she can out smart a demon when she doesn't even understand certain words, phrases, and even jokes.


Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem. It isn't in a position to harm anyone until it's released. And are you seriously acting as though culture shock should negate Merrill's intellect, which we see demonstrated time and again throughout the narrative?

Hazegurl wrote...

She is terribly naive yet Hawke is supposed to think everything will be okay with her asking a demon for advice.  Hawke is also supposed to just keep on encourgaing her to deal with a mirror that she would rather stare at then eat, sleep or take proper care of herself. Like I said Friendship Hawke is nothing but an enabler in Merrill's case.


Merrill is trying to save her people, while Hawke is doing nothing for years at a time. Some people actually want to make a positive difference in the world. And irrevocably changing the lives of the People for the better is an altruistic goal.

Hazegurl wrote...

Also, Merrill needs to look to the future of her people and leave the past in the past. She thinks that getting possessed and killed is worth it just for a small piece of info from it completely ignoring the fact that if she is posessed and killed then no one would benefit from the knowledge anyway. :pinched: 


Merrill asks Hawke to accompany her in Act III because she suspects Audacity might have somehow gotten released in Act III, which turned out to be the case since Marethari released it and trapped it inside herself.

#133
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...

This is factually inaccurate. Hawke can support Merrill, while everyone else is ignorant about what Merrill is doing. No one knows about the Eluvians, no one knows about elven culture, and no one understands the plight that is faced by the People. Merrill is trying to do something about this. Even Marethari doesn't seem to have put any effort into researching the lore on the Eluvian like Merrill has. You seem to expect me to take the word of the ignorant over the person who did the research on the lore she gathered, and even extrapolated information from the shard she took in the Elven Ruins.Also, Marethari is the one who endangers the clan by releasing Audacity and becoming an abomination without warning anyone. That isn't Merrill's fault.

She's using blood magic and nobody cosigned that.

Hawke can support Merrill, instead of bullying her and intimidating her in Rivalry. As for the others, they disagree Rivalry Hawke does bully her, and Keeper Marethari had no right to give the Arulin'Holm to anyone but Merrill because she was the one who invoked vir sulevanan.

Refusing to enable her obsession and refusing to put her and him/herself in a demon's crossfire for a little piece of a mirror and a played out raisin in the sun does not make you a bully.

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem. It isn't in a position to harm anyone until it's released. And are you seriously acting as though culture shock should negate Merrill's intellect, which we see demonstrated time and again throughout the narrative?

Yeah, because a Pride demon could easily trip her up with its cunning, confuse her by twisting words and veiling intent, and get her to agree to things she wouldn't know she was agreeing to before she caught on to its game. She's no wordsmith and words is all she has to deal with that demon.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 10 mai 2013 - 04:36 .


#134
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

This is factually inaccurate. Hawke can support Merrill, while everyone else is ignorant about what Merrill is doing. No one knows about the Eluvians, no one knows about elven culture, and no one understands the plight that is faced by the People. Merrill is trying to do something about this. Even Marethari doesn't seem to have put any effort into researching the lore on the Eluvian like Merrill has. You seem to expect me to take the word of the ignorant over the person who did the research on the lore she gathered, and even extrapolated information from the shard she took in the Elven Ruins.Also, Marethari is the one who endangers the clan by releasing Audacity and becoming an abomination without warning anyone. That isn't Merrill's fault.


She's using blood magic and nobody cosigned that.


Merrill didn't need anyone's permission.

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke can support Merrill, instead of bullying her and intimidating her in Rivalry. As for the others, they disagree Rivalry Hawke does bully her, and Keeper Marethari had no right to give the Arulin'Holm to anyone but Merrill because she was the one who invoked vir sulevanan.


Refusing to enable her obsession and refusing to put her and him/herself in a demon's crossfire for a little piece of a mirror and a played out raisin in the sun does not make you a bully.


Considering that Rivalry Hawke does none of those things since Merrill is building the Eluvian based on her own research into the lore and the shard, this isn't much of a retort.

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem. It isn't in a position to harm anyone until it's released. And are you seriously acting as though culture shock should negate Merrill's intellect, which we see demonstrated time and again throughout the narrative?


Yeah, because a Pride demon could easily trip her up with its cunning, confuse her by twisting words and veiling intent, and get her to agree to things she wouldn't know she was agreeing to before she caught on to its game. She's no wordsmith and words is all she has to deal with that demon.


You seem to be confusing Merrill's culture shock with human society with her intellect and her knowledge of the arcane. Also, as the Magi Origin explained, it's a battle of wills - not an exorcise in understanding human culture as well as the humans do.

#135
Palidane

Palidane
  • Members
  • 836 messages
Ok Lobsel, honest question, what makes you think Merrill was qualified to deal with demons and perform blood magic experiments? I really do want to know. I never really brought Merrill along with me, and I rivalled her in her companion quests. When did Merrill display intelligence or cunning or maturity or anything that's helpful when it comes to dealing with demons? I never once got the impression that she was in any way equipped to handle tainted relics or imprisoned pride demons. What scene, or quest gave you this positive opinion of her competency?

#136
Lulupab

Lulupab
  • Members
  • 5 455 messages

Palidane wrote...

Ok Lobsel, honest question, what makes you think Merrill was qualified to deal with demons and perform blood magic experiments? I really do want to know. I never really brought Merrill along with me, and I rivalled her in her companion quests. When did Merrill display intelligence or cunning or maturity or anything that's helpful when it comes to dealing with demons? I never once got the impression that she was in any way equipped to handle tainted relics or imprisoned pride demons. What scene, or quest gave you this positive opinion of her competency?


I don't disagree fully but as far as I Know Merril is the only blood mage who could actually control blood magic and don't fall to demons through the magic of blood itself especially in DA2. All blood mages are abominations at some point, There are a few who can control blood magic like that. Sure the demon lied to Merril and wanted to free himself from his prison but there is no saying that he would have succeeded in possessing Merril after that. According to David Gaider the mage must be willing at some point. The Keeper wanted the demon to posses her so she could bind demons life to her own so her dealth would kill the demon as well.

#137
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill didn't need anyone's permission.

And that stance doesn't lend her any credit as to her becoming the next Keeper. She can't just do whatever.

Considering that Rivalry Hawke does none of those things since Merrill is building the Eluvian based on her own research into the lore and the shard, this isn't much of a retort.

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't get far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

You seem to be confusing Merrill's culture shock with human society with her intellect and her knowledge of the arcane. Also, as the Magi Origin explained, it's a battle of wills - not an exorcise in understanding human culture as well as the humans do.

So Merrill can't fall prey to a cunning and intelligent demon? To a demon that can twist words and veil its intent? And willpower helps against resisting possession itself but it won't help you make a business deal that could just as easily lead to your demise.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 10 mai 2013 - 05:26 .


#138
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

#139
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

Someone cleary has never seen the rival path.

#140
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

Someone cleary has never seen the rival path.

I have, and it's horrible.

#141
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

Someone cleary has never seen the rival path.

I have, and it's horrible.

No it's not. Then again, you're just too bias to see it's not horrible.

Modifié par Mr.House, 10 mai 2013 - 05:31 .


#142
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

Someone cleary has never seen the rival path.

I have, and it's horrible.

No it's not. Then again, you're just to bias too see it's not horrible.

And I, of course, could just say that you're "to bias" to see that it is, and we'd be at this all night.

#143
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

Well, yes, if you kick her around to hell and back, for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

Someone cleary has never seen the rival path.

I have, and it's horrible.

No it's not. Then again, you're just to bias too see it's not horrible.

And I, of course, could just say that you're "to bias" to see that it is, and we'd be at this all night.

I enjoy both paths, but nice try.

#144
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages
The gain is she doesn't become an abomination that rampages on Sundermount and Kirkwall.

Her clan doesn't even want her to do this. Its that serious and she won't give it up. She's forgetting the reason why she's even doing it. It was time to fall back. I knew something was wrong when a Dalish elf ran into a human's arms. #DeadGiveaway

#145
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages
Erm, I never mentioned the friendship path in that post. I don't think that your tactic of non sequiturs is going to work that well here.

The gain is she doesn't become an abomination that rampages on Sundermount and Kirkwall.

And she doesn't become one regardless.

Her clan doesn't even want her to do this. Its that serious and she
won't give it up. She's forgetting the reason why she's even doing it.
It was time to fall back. I knew something was wrong when a Dalish elf
ran into a human's arms. #DeadGiveaway

That doesn't even make sense. Her clan is a pack of idiots in any case.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 mai 2013 - 05:35 .


#146
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages
And that's metagaming.

#147
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Youth4Ever wrote...

And that's metagaming.

Hardly. I never saw her as being even close to becoming an abomination, and in fact, she never was. It's not metagaming if you just have a modicum of sense.

In short, "metagaming" is the cry of people bitter about being wrong.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 mai 2013 - 05:37 .


#148
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages
Why are you insulting me? It is of course possible she could become an abomination because she's dealing with a Pride demon and everything about her is playing right into its wheelhouse.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 10 mai 2013 - 05:38 .


#149
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

And that's metagaming.

Hardly. I never saw her as being even close to becoming an abomination, and in fact, she never was. It's not metagaming if you just have a modicum of sense.

In short, "metagaming" is the cry of people bitter about being wrong.


Image IPBImage IPBImage IPB

#150
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages

Mr.House wrote...
No it's not. Then again, you're just too bias to see it's not horrible. 


I've seen it and it strikes me as being manipulative and consisting of emotional abuse. Saying you have someone's interests at heart doesn't mean you really do, especially if your actions actually make them feel ****tier about themselves.

Hell, even her Rivalry bonus says that the fact that no one supports her has made her depend solely on herself.

That's not healthy.