283 réponses à ce sujet

[Zazzerka]

I'm not sure what the problem is. Merrill is my favourite Pokémon.

[Hazegurl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yet you stated the following:

Then that makes Merrill an extermely weak person period

whereas Lob merely commented that she lacks confidence in herself as a result of lack of support entirely.

Let's put it all together shall we

Lob: "Merrill is scared because Rivalry Hawke has weakened her confidence to such an extent"
Me: "Then that makes Merrill an extermely weak person period."

The context of the conversation is that Merrill is a weak person if she has allowed her confidence to be weakened by a lack of support. 

Now if you or Lob would actually ask me straight up if I think Merrill has become weak due to the rival path, my anwser is no she doesn't. But oh well. :innocent:

That's not true for everything. People go through instances in their lives where no one supports them, yet there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.
For instance, picking a career path. If no one supports your decision to become a teacher, does that mean you're wrong?

Irrelvant. If a person is making a dangerous decision they will typically have more people disapprove than approve and Merrill's decision is dangerous. If a family member comes home and say "Hey I found a new career selling drugs, don't worry I can outsmart all the other dealers on the street." I'm sure the majority of the people in his life will disagree with that career choice, does it still make it a good decision to make?

And going with a "Deal with it" mentality for someone losing their self-worth is also not helpful or conducive to one's mental well-being.

Nor is being an enabler just so they and you can feel good about themselves.

Alright, we're not talking about her shooting up and snorting lyrium here like a druggie Templar.

Nope just a chick who would much rather starve to death in front of a mirror and no she's not an archaeologist just a Dalish Elf who thinks she knows more than everyone else around her.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 10 mai 2013 - 06:57 .

[Hazegurl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Right, he should really listen to himself. He says that Merrill lacks confidence and becomes weak based on Hawke not supporting her, Anders makes her scared by telling her what could happen to her, and she is naive about human culture. BUT Merrill can thwart a demon's attempt at manipulation, master word games, and have the mental strength and fortitude to battle wits with a pride demon

It's really quite simple. IF you rival her, you destroy her mental strength in herself and the capability of resisting the Demon's wiles, thus you're actually endangering her life. A shattered pride is a manipulated one.

If you support her, then she has confidence in what she's doing and is capable of resisting the Demon's wiles.

Theories that are never put into practice.

[LobselVith8]

Palidane wrote...

Ok Lobsel, honest question, what makes you think Merrill was qualified to deal with demons and perform blood magic experiments?

Merrill is an intelligent mage who used blood magic proficiently for several years, never abused her abilities, and her focus was constructing an Eluvian that she believed could help the People. She also wasn't dabbling in blood magic experiments, and she wanted to engage in verbal discourse with a demon who was trapped in a totem and sundered from the Fade - being limited to simply being able to communicate with people, and send them images telepathically.

Palidane wrote...

I really do want to know. I never really brought Merrill along with me, and I rivalled her in her companion quests. When did Merrill display intelligence or cunning or maturity or anything that's helpful when it comes to dealing with demons?

Merrill is capable of telling if Keran is possessed by a demon, she is able to caution Hawke and distinquish the nature of the Profane Abomination, she cautions Hawke that you can gain information from a demon without capitulating to them (which is precisely what your protagonist can do in these scenarios), and she admonishes Anders that all spirits are dangerous, because there's no such thing as a good spirit.

Palidane wrote...

I never once got the impression that she was in any way equipped to handle tainted relics or imprisoned pride demons. What scene, or quest gave you this positive opinion of her competency?

Why? Because Merrill is dealing with culture shock, as a Dalish elf in a human city? Because she resorts to dry humor at times?

As for the debate over the Eluvian, Marethari goes from one baseless assumption to another, never giving any indication that she has the slightest idea what she's talking about, while Merrill studied the lore she gathered about the Eluvian, and extrapolated more information from the shard. The person who performed the research into the Eluvian is likely to know more about it's potential applications than the person who seemed to perform no research into it at all.

[LobselVith8]

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill didn't need anyone's permission.

And that stance doesn't lend her any credit as to her becoming the next Keeper. She can't just do whatever.

Merrill chose not to become the next Keeper, because she followed a course of action she believed could benefit the People. Her research into the Eluvian seemed to lead Merrill to think it could greatly help the Sabrae clan and the People as a whole.

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering that Rivalry Hawke does none of those things since Merrill is building the Eluvian based on her own research into the lore and the shard, this isn't much of a retort.

I didn't give her that tool so she didn't get far and complains to me that it would have helped her with her research, and finally I make a breakthrough and she destroys the mirror. The rivalry path works out just fine. I cant help it that she set things in motion before she listened.

The Rivalry path works fine in destroying Merrill's confidence, I suppose, but Hawke argues from a standpoint of ignorance, because he knows nothing about elven culture, the plight of the People, or the Eluvians.

Youth4Ever wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You seem to be confusing Merrill's culture shock with human society with her intellect and her knowledge of the arcane. Also, as the Magi Origin explained, it's a battle of wills - not an exorcise in understanding human culture as well as the humans do.

So Merrill can't fall prey to a cunning and intelligent demon? To a demon that can twist words and veil its intent? And willpower helps against resisting possession itself but it won't help you make a business deal that could just as easily lead to your demise.

Merrill had managed to do fine as a blood mage in the worst city in Thedas - a literal hellmouth of Tevinter design. I think that speaks for itself.

[Sir JK]

This is rapidly going off topic... let's bring this topic back to elves, the Dales as stuff rather than talking solely about Merrill and her magic?

Especially since neither side is going to sway the other since our conclusions are all based on whether we believe in Merrill's ability to handle Audacity. Belief. Since all of us got nothing but Merrill's own words for her work on it.
And if we find that to be a compelling argument, we should probably jump back to DA2's forum. So unless anyone has gotten the impression that Merrill and her approach to bloodmagic will play a part in how the elves reclaim the Dales perhaps we ought to return to the topic?

[Parmida]

(1) Elves now look like freaks.

(2) Freaks feed my Blood magic.







(1),(2) ====> MOAR POWER FO' ME! ME ME!

 

Modifié par Parmida, 10 mai 2013 - 06:38 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Personally, I'll be pretty upset if they finally decide to address the elven situation in a game where I'm not able to play as an elf. Especially if the PC has a pivotal role in the resolution. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that something like that should require the PC to be an elf.

If we can be required to play a human for story reasons, the opposite should be true.

[BlueMagitek]

Zazzerka wrote...

I'm not sure what the problem is. Merrill is my favourite Pokémon.

Pretty sure that's a Pikablu, you get it by beating the Elite 4 six times with a Nintendo traded Mew team.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I hope they try. I hope they fail.

[Protosshater]

Better question. Will elves not look completely different this time?

[BlueMagitek]

Protosshater wrote...

Better question. Will elves not look completely different this time?

The elves should have a radical new look with every main Dragon Age game.  We can make it a tradition.

[LobselVith8]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Personally, I'll be pretty upset if they finally decide to address the elven situation in a game where I'm not able to play as an elf. Especially if the PC has a pivotal role in the resolution. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that something like that should require the PC to be an elf.

If we can be required to play a human for story reasons, the opposite should be true.

You think we'll be able to play as an elf again? You're more optimistic than I am.

[Harle Cerulean]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Personally, I'll be pretty upset if they finally decide to address the elven situation in a game where I'm not able to play as an elf. Especially if the PC has a pivotal role in the resolution. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that something like that should require the PC to be an elf.

If we can be required to play a human for story reasons, the opposite should be true.

You think we'll be able to play as an elf again? You're more optimistic than I am.

Funny, I don't recall saying that.  I said I'd be upset if they addressed it in a game where I couldn't and that I think it's something that should require an elven PC...

...but I never said I thought we'd actually be able to.  I'm quite aware that making one playable race is much less complicated and uses less resources than multiple, and also that they'll never make a DA game where, god forbid, people can't play as human.

I fully expect to be upset one of these days because my options will be between screwing up the chance for a new elven homeland or playing Great White Human Saviour.

[Sir JK]

Maybe it's the optimist in me speaking... but I fully expect that if Bioware makes a game/story that calls for an elven protagonist then we'll be able to play an elf.

Whether that means race choice or that only elves are playable I don't know. But I do think that the story determines which races are playable.

[LobselVith8]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You think we'll be able to play as an elf again? You're more optimistic than I am.

Funny, I don't recall saying that.  I said I'd be upset if they addressed it in a game where I couldn't and that I think it's something that should require an elven PC...

Fair enough. My apologies.

Harle Cerulean wrote...

...but I never said I thought we'd actually be able to.  I'm quite aware that making one playable race is much less complicated and uses less resources than multiple, and also that they'll never make a DA game where, god forbid, people can't play as human.

I fully expect to be upset one of these days because my options will be between screwing up the chance for a new elven homeland or playing Great White Human Saviour. 

Frankly, I'd rather play as an elven protagonist. I'm not interested in playing as a human protagonist in a fantasy setting, and I rather dislike the Andrastian culture and their monstrous religion. I'd prefer playing as a Dalish elf who would have a plethora of things to say about Orlais, occupied Dales, and Tevinter, rather than as another Andrastian human when I greatly disliked the last one Bioware provided.

If a human protagonist did have a chance to help the elves, I'd rather see it like the Merrill storyline, where a human (Hawke) can help an elf (Merrill) with her goal. In the case of the elven rebellion, I'd imagine there are many elven leaders.

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

If a human protagonist did have a chance to help the elves, I'd rather see it like the Merrill storyline, where a human (Hawke) can help an elf (Merrill) with her goal. In the case of the elven rebellion, I'd imagine there are many elven leaders.

This here, I agree with. Our human should merely act in a supporting role to any elven movement, ideally in the third tier... supporting it's generals and actors... rather than it's future "head-of-state"s. Separated from any major decisionmaking and while recieving a great deal of praise and gratitude from the people we're working with, it might come with the caveat that the future Dales (or whatever) would probably not recognice our efforts much.

I do think that if such a story is to be really powerful, our human would need a connection to the land we're fighting for however. Helping the oppressed fight against their oppressor is fine and all... sacreficing your own roots to help them though? Far more interesting. It also undermines the notion of the human reaching down to lift up the elves a bit better. 
Besides... one should always put a face on the people that stands to lose something. And what better way than to make them family and friends?

The bitter choice between helping the elves and preserving one's own home is a conflict with enormous story potential methinks, and probably the most interesting way to handle the potential elven conflict as a human.

[Lulupab]

Well according to lore Dales is a huge forest with elven ruins. Only handful of human nomads live there. I don't think it actually "belongs" to Orlais. Its worth to Orlais is exactly like Korcari wilds and ostagar to Ferelden.

[Sir JK]

Rassler wrote...

Well according to lore Dales is a huge forest with elven ruins. Only handful of human nomads live there. I don't think it actually "belongs" to Orlais. Its worth to Orlais is exactly like Korcari wilds and ostagar to Ferelden.

I can't find this anywhere, where are you getting this from?

Halamshiral, at the very least, is still settled. And it was the capitol of the Dales.

[Lulupab]

Sir JK wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Well according to lore Dales is a huge forest with elven ruins. Only handful of human nomads live there. I don't think it actually "belongs" to Orlais. Its worth to Orlais is exactly like Korcari wilds and ostagar to Ferelden.

I can't find this anywhere, where are you getting this from?

Halamshiral, at the very least, is still settled. And it was the capitol of the Dales.

Actually someone familiar with lore told me I didn't read myself but I do know many of Halamshiral was burned since it was full of shrines of creators.

[Asdrubael Vect]

LobselVith8
"In the case of the elven rebellion, I'd imagine there are many elven leaders."

we have many known candidates for this...

1)Zathrian
2)Merril
3)Velanna
4)Lanaya
5)Fionna
6)Feynriel

and this is only a very small part of all the possible candidates

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 11 mai 2013 - 07:03 .

[BlazingSpeed]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

IMO this deserves to be a major plot in its own game. A future DA where you can choose your own race, because it would be a greater victory if your character is an elf.

[Hazegurl]

BlazingSpeed wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

IMO this deserves to be a major plot in its own game. A future DA where you can choose your own race, because it would be a greater victory if your character is an elf.

I hope that we would get a chance to not give a crap about the elves reclaiming their homeland. I would like to actually be able to make choices on whether or not I want to help or even go against them if I want. A whole game focused on helping the Dales sounds too linear imo.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Hazegurl wrote...


I hope that we would get a chance to not give a crap about the elves reclaiming their homeland. I would like to actually be able to make choices on whether or not I want to help or even go against them if I want. A whole game focused on helping the Dales sounds too linear imo.

of course it would be boring and wery quick to just reclaiming Dales.

what we need is destroing Orlais Chantry with good crusade & massacre to reclaim the whole Orlais territory's  and creating the second Elvhenan

and all would be happy for some reasons, except only Orlais

and we would have

1 elven kingdom
7 human kingdoms(Free Marshes considered as 1)
2 dwarven kingdoms

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 11 mai 2013 - 08:00 .