265 réponses à ce sujet

[Astartes Marine]

David7204 wrote...
Is that why you derided it as 'derp for the sake of the plot' instead of a very realistic and plausible action?

Well excuse me for expecting my war hero Shepard who has been in worse fights like the Skyllian Blitz for which he was awarded the Star of Terra to have better instincts than to stand around looking at things that are exploding when his only way to survive is right in front of him. 

spirosz wrote...
That's the thing though, it might of been the
best action to take, but at split second moments, the brain and body
itself, can only do so much and it's really dependent on the situation
at hand, right?

True, but for a character who has been through so much and has so much experience it just felt like a jarring lapse in sense. 

AresKeith wrote...
Or it was to just annoy you

Well...it is so easy to do...but no that was not my intent.  Alot of the cutscene nonsense in Mass Effect seems to be "for the sake of the plot".  Don't blast Kai Leng with something bigger than a Predator?  Sake of the plot. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 mai 2013 - 12:06 .

[David7204]

Ridiculous hyperbole. Shepard does not 'stand around.'

Also, you're completely wrong about Leng. That has utterly nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with a very difficult problem with weapon animations shared by nearly all games with guns and third person cutscenes. You certainly have ******-poor reasoning concerning this sort of thing.

Modifié par David7204, 10 mai 2013 - 12:09 .

[Astartes Marine]

David7204 wrote...
Ridiculous hyperbole. Shepard does not 'stand around.'

Does he immediately follow Joker into the pod?  No?  Then he might as well have been standing around with his thumbs up his ass.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 mai 2013 - 12:22 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous hyperbole. Shepard does not 'stand around.'

Really???



@AstartesMarine I know it wasn't, I was just messing around

[Astartes Marine]

David7204 wrote...
Also, you're completely wrong about Leng.
That has utterly nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with a
very difficult problem with weapon animations shared by nearly all
games with guns and third person cutscenes. You certainly have ******-poor
reasoning concerning this sort of thing.

It was an example.  One of many.  I could bring up the elevator scene as well or why Shepard and crew stand around when Thane fights him.  It's like whenever the player doesn't have control over Shepard the chances of something  retarded happening are high. 

Leng gets into elevator?  Roll a grenade in there rather than run at him or just blast him with the Claymore using Adrenaline Rush. 
Leng is standing off with Thane?  Garrus put a Widow round into his skull, James be ready on that Typhoon.
Leng jumps onto sky car?  Go inverted to fling him off or fly close enough to an overpass to have him impact with a wall.

All of those scenes happened the way they did in the game just to let Leng get away with his dastardly deeds.  That is, for the sake of the plot.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 mai 2013 - 12:24 .

[MegaSovereign]

Using fanfiction as an argument?

Brilliant.

[spirosz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Using fanfiction as an argument?

Brilliant.

[David7204]

Not. They aren't. Half of those examples are solid, and half of them aren't.

Try to understand this incredibly complex and intricate reasoning - Not all players have grenades. So for the ones that don't, does a grenade just appear out of nowhere? (That's not even addressing the fact that it would almost certainly take more than the second or two before the door closes to draw, arm, and accurately throw a grenade.) And even then, Leng has shields.

More complex logic! Not all players are equipped with shotguns or have squadmates with shotguns. Not all players have sniper rifles or squadmates equipped with sniper rifles.

I know that's incredibly intensive for you to process. So why don't you explain to how the animators are supposed to take such things into account?

Modifié par David7204, 10 mai 2013 - 12:36 .

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Not. They aren't. Half of those examples are solid, and half of them aren't.

Try to understand this incredibly complex and intricate reasoning - Not all players have grenades. So for the ones that don't, does a grenade just appear out of nowhere? (That's not even addressing the fact that it would almost certainly take more than the second or two before the door closes to draw, arm, and accurately throw a grenade.) And even then, Leng has shields.

More complex logic! Not all players are equipped with shotguns or have squadmates with shotguns. Not all players have sniper rifles or squadmates equipped with sniper rifles.

I know that's incredibly intensive for you to process. So why don't explain to how the animators are supposed to take such things into account?

Space Animation Magic! 

[GreyLycanTrope]

All players have guns, legs and a working mouths though, we could I don't know, tell Thane to hold up, move to a better position, shoot Leng. Fairly sure he didn't have a gunship on the Citadel.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 10 mai 2013 - 12:38 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

Is that why you derided it as 'derp for the sake of the plot' instead of a very realistic and plausible action?

Isn't he just dreamy?:wub:

[David7204]

Yes. And Kai Leng's fight with Thane is a problem. I can agree with that.

[Astartes Marine]

Look I know not everyone has those loadouts, I simply proposed potential alternates.  No grenades?  Then use a biotic ability or something to that effect like slam or hell even biotic charge if you feel like you're invincible.  For the standoff again a squaddie's powers could be used too, Liara has stasis for example or Tali could sabotage or energy drain him, at least two other squad members have overload.

You could also make it a special case scenario, it was done in the Omega DLC where Engineer Shepards could use an interrupt to speed up the energy reroute thanks to the class they are.  This would have probably been the easiest route to take as the devs wouldn't have to create potential outcomes to each situation based on so many variables.

I'm just saying here that there were options to how it could have been handled, and both Shepard's and the squad's abilities could be better utilized along with better sense.

David7204 wrote...
I know that's incredibly intensive for you to process.

If you're going to be civil then I'm fine with that and would prefer it, but if you're going to start with the insults then I've got better things to do. What was that Sovereign said about exchanges?

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 mai 2013 - 12:50 .

[AresKeith]

Astartes Marine wrote...


You could also make it a special case scenario, it was done in the Omega DLC where Engineer Shepards could use an interrupt to speed up the energy reroute thanks to the class they are.  This would have probably been the easiest route to take as the devs wouldn't have to create potential outcomes to each situation based on so many variables.

I heard David hates the class interrupt that Omega did

[David7204]

What I dislike is the idea of class (or chosen squadmembers, or weapon loadouts) having an effect on the story. That's not acceptable.

I don't 'like' Shepard being restricted to pistols in cutscenes, but I'm well aware that having Shepard make use of the ability to possibly turn invisible, use biotics, charge across the room, fiddle with tech, deploy turrets and drones, use a variety of weapons, and throw grenades would make any kind of 'action' cutscenes flatly impossible. Oh, and of course, all squadmate weapons and abilities would have to be integrated as well.

Nor would I be willing to take those abilities and squadmates away in gameplay.

Modifié par David7204, 10 mai 2013 - 12:58 .

[MegaSovereign]

If you're going to be civil then I'm fine with that and would prefer it, but if you're going to start with the insults then I've got better things to do. What was that Sovereign said about exchanges?

Bby don't go i still love you.

[Astartes Marine]

AresKeith wrote...
I heard David hates the class interrupt that Omega did

I thought it was a cool little bonus honestly.  Bringing a little something for your character class to use when not in combat to offer some variation?  It's just a shame that all classes weren't able to get something like that during the game. 

It'd be even more incentive to play as different classes aside from having different abilities in battle, just to see how different situations can be approached with different characters.  Though I'd imagine the Vanguard's charge would cause problems...I mean...damn. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 mai 2013 - 12:56 .

[AresKeith]

Astartes Marine wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
I heard David hates the class interrupt that Omega did

I thought it was a cool little bonus honestly.  Bringing a little something for your character class to use when not in combat to offer some variation?  It's just a shame that all classes weren't able to get something like that during the game. 

I liked the idea of it too and your right every class should've had something like that at some point in the DLC

[MegaSovereign]

David7204 wrote...

What I dislike is the idea of class (or chosen squadmembers, or weapon loadouts) having the affect on the story. That's not acceptable.

I don't 'like' Shepard being restricted to pistols in cutscenes, but I'm well aware that having Shepard make use of the ability to possibly turn invisible, use biotics, fiddle with tech, use a variety of weapons, throw grenades, and of course have both squadmates do the same would is flatly impossible.

Paragon/Renegade points and binary decisions you make affect the story. Sprinkling in some class-based interrupts isn't particularly bad. I seriously doubt Bioware would allow these interrupts to radically change the plot.

[David7204]

Paragon/Renegade 'points' and 'binary decisions' are independent and foreshadowed. class interrupts, weapon loadouts, and squadmate selections are not. If there's no foreshadowing, it's not a meaningful choice, which leads to frustration when players are penalized for something they had no meaningful control over in a game supposedly about choice.

Having a few mooks taken out in a cutscene (who would be killed anyway in the immediate gameplay) due to a class interrupt is fine. (Although perhaps a dubious use of resources...) Having a character die because you weren't a certain class is absolutely not.

Modifié par David7204, 10 mai 2013 - 01:07 .

[Astartes Marine]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Paragon/Renegade points and binary decisions you make affect the story. Sprinkling in some class-based interrupts isn't particularly bad. I seriously doubt Bioware would allow these interrupts to radically change the plot.

They probably wouldn't have them affect the plot much because if they did it might seem like players would be forced to play one certain class to get something done.  Nah they could just be like normal interrupts but class specific.

[Phatose]

Meh.

The problem with class specific interrupts is that they require voice acting, animation and support. The question always becomes "Would we be better off doing a non-class specific interrupt instead?" and the answer is usually "Yes."

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Paragon/Renegade points and binary decisions you make affect the story. Sprinkling in some class-based interrupts isn't particularly bad. I seriously doubt Bioware would allow these interrupts to radically change the plot.

In DA2 there were plenty of personalty and class specific dialouge options, actually gave me a reason to replay the repatiative level designs. It was character and class exploration in lieu of meaningful level design strangley enough. None of these prevented you from any particular content the resolution to the existing content only played out a bit differently somtimes (exact same results for the most part though).

Only instance of contant being blocked solely on a class, I know of are the pickpocketing quests in DA:O. You miss out if you don't have the skill, which you likely won't if you're not playing a rogue. It's a really minor quest that doesn't amount to much outside of one reference in awekening on some minor pawn items.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 10 mai 2013 - 01:13 .

[Hazegurl]

David7204 wrote...

What I dislike is the idea of class (or chosen squadmembers, or weapon loadouts) having an effect on the story. That's not acceptable.

It would be dumb if an Engineer Shepard couldn't fix the issue faster.

[Xilizhra]

It's terrible, isn't it? She wasn't even touched by the Reapers. Not indocrinated, not huskified. The mere presence of the Reapers turned her into a monster.

Terror is a horrible thing, I tell you.

Indeed. We see it in every single person who picks Destroy.