826 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkysPain]

I don't buy that the battle of Rannoch would be the end of the Geth race, they'll have pockets from which to begin again ... uploading the Reaper code however is diametrically opposed to everything Legion stood for in ME2.

He sacrifices principles for expedience after being all high and mighty about races forging their own paths ... bleh.

He had true sentience before the upload, he proved that the Geth had the capability for individuality if they were allowed to evolve further on their own ... the supposed fact he only gained it afterwards is a conceit.

[Dubozz]

Yeah that was kinda stupid.

[What a Succulent Ass]

NO YOU ARE NOT.

[The Night Mammoth]

I don't really like the Rannoch arc in general, to be honest. The direction they went with the geth willingly joining the Reapers, and the conclusion, just don't sit right with me. Another case of drama taking precedence over logic.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 09 mai 2013 - 02:14 .

[iOnlySignIn]

I kept the Collector Base.

I taught him the lesson that progress is good, whatever the means.

He learnt that lesson well.

[Wayning_Star]

did the geth eventually "peace out"? anyone know? Why would they do that?

[shodiswe]

It was the only way for him or the Geth to stop the warmongering Quarian horde.
It was a do or die decision. Similar to the one Shepard faced with the crucible.
It was a minor compromise when facing imminent extinction.

[PinkysPain]

shodiswe wrote...

It was the only way for him or the Geth to stop the warmongering Quarian horde.
It was a do or die decision. Similar to the one Shepard faced with the crucible.
It was a minor compromise when facing imminent extinction.

I don't buy the extinction, it would have been a lot of death geth of course ... but I don't buy the extinction.

To me his choices were :
- Let a lot of geth die.
- Forever taint the geth race with reaper code, impacting infinitely more geth than could die that day (ignoring destroy, which he couldn't know was coming).

Modifié par PinkysPain, 09 mai 2013 - 03:01 .

[PinkysPain]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

You're not even close to alone, OP; this has been noted hundreds of times before. Not sure how you missed that.

I don't see it made very often.

As for your point about pockets of geth possibly being left after you side against them - well, that's what the Destroy ending is for.

In fact I think you entirely missed my point because of what you said here, I don't care about Shepard's decision at all ... Legion's decision makes no sense, rewriting the programming of his entire race with reaper code just to stop a battle being lost and sacrificing his principles established in ME2 in the process ... nope.

[Exile Isan]

PinkysPain wrote...
- Let a lot of geth die.

If the geth loose a lot of programs they will no longer be as intelligent as they are now, they have the possiblity of going back to being simple VI's again. Legion, and all the other geth I'm sure, do not want that. Legion mentions that this kinda happened when the quarians destroyed the megastructure that the geth were building, they lost a lot of programs which dimmed their intelligence. The geth have self preservation insticts just like organics and they decided that siding with the Reapers and being their slaves was prefereable to extiction. I think this also made Legion realized that being a collective intelligence is not the strength he thought it was. All the Reaper code does is make each geth program an individual with independent intelligence.

[shodiswe]

PinkysPain wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It was the only way for him or the Geth to stop the warmongering Quarian horde.
It was a do or die decision. Similar to the one Shepard faced with the crucible.
It was a minor compromise when facing imminent extinction.

I don't buy the extinction, it would have been a lot of death geth of course ... but I don't buy the extinction.

To me his choices were :
- let a lot of geth die
- forever taint the geth race with reaper code

I feel he picked the coward's choice ... in fact ME3 in general is a coward's game.

The Quarians had been doing their ethnic cleansing in several geth systems for 17 days before they hit their home system.

Also I don't think that reapercode changes them that much. More like new driverd for thrir gfx card and a new bios for their motherboard which might increase their performace by an extra 50% or something.

In a way Legions choice was likely foreshadowing of the choice Shepard would have to make.

[FlyingSquirrel]

If I recall correctly, the geth are freed from Reaper control before Legion does the upload.

While I'll admit that this is speculation, I would assume that either (a) Legion is back in contact with the (now freed) geth at this point and they are in agreement with having the code uploaded, or ( they would be able to reject the upload if they don't want it. I don't think he's just rewriting them without their consent.

[PinkysPain]

Exile Isan wrote...
All the Reaper code does is make each geth program an individual with independent intelligence.

Which Legion already was to begin with ...

[PinkysPain]

shodiswe wrote...
In a way Legions choice was likely foreshadowing of the choice Shepard would have to make.

Oh I agree, it foreshadowed the end in a way ... as did arrival.

ME3, a tale of losers and cowards.

[shodiswe]

The upgrades make them smart enough to fight theQuarians dirty tricks by freeing up extra processing power. It might also help them fight the reapers more effectively.
Secondly, their future is still whatever they make of it even if the upgrade made each individual platform less dependant on the others.

[shodiswe]

PinkysPain wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
In a way Legions choice was likely foreshadowing of the choice Shepard would have to make.

Oh I agree, it foreshadowed the end in a way ... as did arrival.

ME3, a tale of losers and cowards.

I'm not sure if it counts when the alternative is the end of the world.

[PinkysPain]

What the upgrades do is irrelevant to my original point, all of that is expedience ... ME2 Legion had principles.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 09 mai 2013 - 03:32 .

[PsyrenY]

PinkysPain wrote...

He sacrifices principles for expedience after being all high and mighty about races forging their own paths ... bleh.

Geth are not like other races. The Quarians literally changed their thinking by blowing up a percentage of their "brains."

"The Geth perspective narrowed. Survival took precedence."

You're absolutely right that their decisions in ME3 are not consistent with their stance in ME2. The problem is that it's still totally in character because of the unique way they make decisions.

And that is a unique danger of synthetic life - how quickly they can "change their minds." When the Catalyst decided Reapers were the solution, it did so in an instant and liquefied the Leviathans before they knew what was happening; this is no different.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 09 mai 2013 - 03:40 .

[grey_wind]

I agree with you OP.

However, I do feel the conclusion to Rannoch could have been a lot more intriguing if Legion only chose to upload the code if you rewrote the Heretics, and chose not to if you killed them.

[Exile Isan]

PinkysPain wrote...
Which Legion already was to begin with ...

No. Legion's programs as a collective, all 1,183 of them, formed an individual intelligence in that platform and only if they stay together on that platform (this is why Legion "dies" at the end of the Rannoch mission if you made peace or side with the geth because those programs are seperated). It also took what three years for that to happen? The quarians at the moment of Legion's upload are an imminent threat that are not going to wait three years for several programs to become like Legion. They need the protection of each program being an individual now or the geth as we know them are toast. The Reaper code upgrades gave them that protection. Making each of those 1,183 programs an individual intelligence on their own.

You have to remember that the geth are purely software not the hardware and platforms that Shepard and Co. fight all the time.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 09 mai 2013 - 04:23 .

[o Ventus]

Protip: it you ask "am I the only one...", chances are you aren't.

[Iakus]

ME2 Legion:  "Geth build their own future.  Shortcuts are bad"
ME3 Legion: "Reaper code! OM NOM NOM!!!!"

[S.A.K]

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

[shodiswe]

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.