826 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

[quote]remydat wrote...

Silver,

And again Shotgun is advocating controlling the Geth just like Xen.  I mean seriously what are your trying to claim? Shotgun has made it perfectly clear in these posts her views on the Geth are similar to Xens.  Tell me what I should believe when Shoutgun says she does not believe the Geth are alive and advocates taking control of the Geth?  You are running your mouth about something Shotgun has already said to me directly.  Why?

[quote]sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Xen is the Quarian version of The Illusive Man. I love her. Reduce the Geth in number down to a size where they are manageable and seize control of their consensus as what should have been done in the first place.

I'm glad you posted that video. She sounds perfectly sane. I want her on my team researching countermeasures against the reapers. I wish they did more with her in ME3 and didn't turn her into a mad scientist, but there's the difference between Drew Karpyshyn and Mac Walters.

[/quote]

[/quote]
[/quote]
Didn't I ALREADY counter this exact same post?
I'm claiming that liking a character, and understanding the logic behind their ideals is NOT the same as sharing their morals.
And as someone with your style of views, I would think you would support a geth verson of the Control Ending, since you value synthetics so damn much and would sell your own damn soul out to save them. She was also noting how this plan would have made much more logical sence as a battle plan for the quarians.

So please, stop running YOUR mouth, since once again, you show an inabilaty to avoid blurring deffinitions together.

Saying you love a character does not mean you necessaraly agree with their beliefs. Saren and The Illusive Man are fan-favorate characters, even though most don't agree with their beliefs.

Advocating Xen's plan like that means she supports the idea of a bloodless war. And in that case, the geth are STILL alive. It's no different then the Control ending with the Reapers. Any justifacations for the Control ending apply here.

And AGAIN, she is advocating how Xen approches problems logically and methodocly. Same as Miranda does.

[S.A.K]

Morlath wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You expect me to trust that thing even after it went back on everything it said in ME2? Not only that, it lies repeatedly during ME3. It ever tries to kill Shepard when he disagreed. You failed to provide one reason why I should trust that thing.

I am sorry. I understand what you said, but I don't accept anything Legion says without proof because it's a damned lier. It's not my fault the Bioware butchered ME2 Legion.

Everything?

Legion says that the Geth have no problems with organics as long as they try to stop the Geth from finding their own future. In ME3 the Quarians attempted to stop the Geth from achieving their future.

Wow! You actually managed to find something Legion said in ME2 that didn't turn out to be bullsh!t. Well, congratulations.

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

They didn't kill Legion. Their first instinct was NOT to shoot him, remember? And Kal'Reegar didn't shoot Legion if he was on Haestrom. Face it - the quarians have shown more restraint to enemy forces then the geth have.

Legion says that religious beliefs had NOTHING to do with the split. The True Geth admired what Sovergien was too, but didn't agree with the concept of accepting handouts. THAT'S the only reason they seperated.

Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Actually, that DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  Being the unexpected captian of a Cerberus Ship, you don't have any more athourity then Legion does. Kar'Donna expresses distrust of you too. And yet, they show restraint. And AGAIN, if you had been right, they would have done that the moment they saw Tali on a Cerberus ship that was not expected. So NO, this situation is actually worse then if Tali had been alone with Legion. And yet, the quarians show restraint. See a pattern?

Again, that's wrong. Legion shows disaproval to capturing the Collector Base, saying it's better for a race to reach their future in their own. The way you say it, you make it sound like the geth refused out of pride. It was because they didn't believe in using ANYONE elses tech to advance themselves, even if said tech lands in their lap. THAT'S what Legion said the geth believed, and it's a belief that's completely invalidated by using Reaper Tech to evolove.
It was a disagreement on weather or not they should use outside tech, or evolve on their own.

[silverexile17s]

S.A.K wrote...

Morlath wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You expect me to trust that thing even after it went back on everything it said in ME2? Not only that, it lies repeatedly during ME3. It ever tries to kill Shepard when he disagreed. You failed to provide one reason why I should trust that thing.

I am sorry. I understand what you said, but I don't accept anything Legion says without proof because it's a damned lier. It's not my fault the Bioware butchered ME2 Legion.

Everything?

Legion says that the Geth have no problems with organics as long as they try to stop the Geth from finding their own future. In ME3 the Quarians attempted to stop the Geth from achieving their future.

Wow! You actually managed to find something Legion said in ME2 that didn't turn out to be bullsh!t. Well, congratulations.

Still, Legion never states the geth feel anything positive for organics either. In fact, it seems that the geth didn't care about organics period until Shepard and Co. killed a Reapers.

[S.A.K]

KingZayd wrote...
Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split but the Heretics did develop them. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Wait! what? So the Geth agreed to help Reapers as a trade? Like "if you give us Reaper tech we'll help you attack the citadel and kill organics."? Then again in ME3 the rest of the Geth, "if you save our a**es we'll be your slaves forever". Things like that? Geth don't give a damn about organics at all. Their only concern is survival. And they'll still be that way even if it means the end of everyone else.
So what's to say Geth won't switch sides again and join Reapers if they feel the final battle is going bad for the organics? They'll do that in a heart beat if the Reapers say they'll be spared.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

And finally the Quarians are prejudiced pre MW. Tali made it perfectly clear in ME1 that the quarians feared a geth rebellion. That fear was never proven to be true. When you make decisions not based on what someone did but what you imagine they would do because they are different that you, it is prejudice. We would not be having this discussion if the Geth were Quarians too.

AGAIN, DEAD WRONG.
It was NEVER prejudice. How many times must that be drilled into your skull before it clicks?

Of COURSE they feared a geth rebellion, because all geth are WALKING WEAPONS. Last I checked, it's not prejudice to fear a gun. You're sayinjg that if you feel fear for having a gun pressed to your head, that makes you prejudiced to the gun? Your saying that if your brother was trapped in a room with a damaged bomb, it would be prejudiced to fear the bomb? What Bull. Do you even HEAR yourself?
The geth's VERY NATURE - the Nature THEY GAVE THEM - made them combatents. The quarians created their nature.
Assuming a malefunctioning gun is dangerous is NOT prejudiced. And ONCE AGAIN, you FAIL at analyzing their culture, because no one believed the geth WERE living beings.
Trying to put out that it's prejudiced to be afraid of a gun that's started acting abnormal is just asinine.
And AGAIN, last I checked, quarians weren't made of metal alloy, immune to toxins, able to survive in zero-g vacume, and weren't equiped with built-in combat-grade software in every single individual, or able to snap people's neck with a single hand. You can look at ALL the things that make a single geth a dangerous killing machine, and actually try to scoff at people being afriad of an entire population of millions of them, on every street corner, with the chance that any could suddenly go berserk, and could spark a massive rebellion?  You are going to try and  BS that it's prejudice to fear for your familes safety?
Good grief, don't you have ANY attachment to your family?

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

They didn't kill Legion. Their first instinct was NOT to shoot him, remember? And Kal'Reegar didn't shoot Legion if he was on Haestrom. Face it - the quarians have shown more restraint to enemy forces then the geth have.

Legion says that religious beliefs had NOTHING to do with the split. The True Geth admired what Sovergien was too, but didn't agree with the concept of accepting handouts. THAT'S the only reason they seperated.

Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Actually, that DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  Being the unexpected captian of a Cerberus Ship, you don't have any more athourity then Legion does. Kar'Donna expresses distrust of you too. And yet, they show restraint. And AGAIN, if you had been right, they would have done that the moment they saw Tali on a Cerberus ship that was not expected. So NO, this situation is actually worse then if Tali had been alone with Legion. And yet, the quarians show restraint. See a pattern?

Again, that's wrong. Legion shows disaproval to capturing the Collector Base, saying it's better for a race to reach their future in their own. The way you say it, you make it sound like the geth refused out of pride. It was because they didn't believe in using ANYONE elses tech to advance themselves, even if said tech lands in their lap. THAT'S what Legion said the geth believed, and it's a belief that's completely invalidated by using Reaper Tech to evolove.
It was a disagreement on weather or not they should use outside tech, or evolve on their own.

Actually it does. If you weren't Shepard, and Tali wasn't with you, and she hadn't been known to have carried out her pilgrimage with you they would have destroyed that Geth unit in an instant.

Really? Do the Geth refuse to use the Mass Relays? We met Legion on the Derelict Reaper because the Geth wanted to study Reaper technology. The "True" Geth are also okay with modifying Reaper code and uploading it to Geth in ME2. Remember what they do with that virus in ME2? That virus came from Sovereign. 

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

Silver,

And finally the Quarians are prejudiced pre MW. Tali made it perfectly clear in ME1 that the quarians feared a geth rebellion. That fear was never proven to be true. When you make decisions not based on what someone did but what you imagine they would do because they are different that you, it is prejudice. We would not be having this discussion if the Geth were Quarians too.

AGAIN, DEAD WRONG.
It was NEVER prejudice. How many times must that be drilled into your skull before it clicks?

Of COURSE they feared a geth rebellion, because all geth are WALKING WEAPONS. Last I checked, it's not prejudice to fear a gun. You're sayinjg that if you feel fear for having a gun pressed to your head, that makes you prejudiced to the gun? Your saying that if your brother was trapped in a room with a damaged bomb, it would be prejudiced to fear the bomb? What Bull. Do you even HEAR yourself?
The geth's VERY NATURE - the Nature THEY GAVE THEM - made them combatents. The quarians created their nature.
Assuming a malefunctioning gun is dangerous is NOT prejudiced. And ONCE AGAIN, you FAIL at analyzing their culture, because no one believed the geth WERE living beings.
Trying to put out that it's prejudiced to be afraid of a gun that's started acting abnormal is just asinine.
And AGAIN, last I checked, quarians weren't made of metal alloy, immune to toxins, able to survive in zero-g vacume, and weren't equiped with built-in combat-grade software in every single individual, or able to snap people's neck with a single hand. You can look at ALL the things that make a single geth a dangerous killing machine, and actually try to scoff at people being afriad of an entire population of millions of them, on every street corner, with the chance that any could suddenly go berserk, and could spark a massive rebellion?  You are going to try and  BS that it's prejudice to fear for your familes safety?
Good grief, don't you have ANY attachment to your family?

Geth are walking weapons, which is why the first Geth unit to resist had to use a rifle?

[Auintus]

S.A.K wrote...

You expect me to trust that thing even after it went back on everything it said in ME2? Not only that, it lies repeatedly during ME3. It ever tries to kill Shepard when he disagreed. You failed to provide one reason why I should trust that thing.

I am sorry. I understand what you said, but I don't accept anything Legion says without proof because it's a damned lier. It's not my fault the Bioware butchered ME2 Legion.

So they changed previous beliefs for their own survival. Humans do that all the time. And it never lies in ME3. It does willfully refuse to divulge certain information, but it explains its reasons and I cannot say that I would have done differently. Lastly, why would it not attack Shepard? The wheel says "We're letting the Geth die." Shepard condemns his entire race to extiction. There is no reason to expect it not to fight back.

As for "butchering" Legion, recall that it has been an entire year since the last time you spoke with him and the degree and speed of Geth interactions. Expecting him not to change is like expecting a friend from the 2nd grade to be exactly the same. People change.

[remydat]

Silver,

Shotgun said she does not consider the Geth alive and that she would take control ie enslave them. That is the same thing Xen believes. Are you her attorney or something? If I have mischaracterized her belief that the Geth are not alive and should be enslaved then she can let me know.

Modifié par remydat, 16 mai 2013 - 04:30 .

[Auintus]

silverexile17s wrote...

Of COURSE they feared a geth rebellion, because all geth are WALKING WEAPONS.

Uh, the Geth were workers. The first to return fire was specifically stated to be an agricultural unit. Are you a weapon? Should I fear you for existing?

Good grief, don't you have ANY attachment to your family?

Incredibly childish and entirely uncalled for.

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

Wait! what? So the Geth agreed to help Reapers as a trade? Like "if you give us Reaper tech we'll help you attack the citadel and kill organics."? Then again in ME3 the rest of the Geth, "if you save our a**es we'll be your slaves forever". Things like that? Geth don't give a damn about organics at all. Their only concern is survival. And they'll still be that way even if it means the end of everyone else.
So what's to say Geth won't switch sides again and join Reapers if they feel the final battle is going bad for the organics? They'll do that in a heart beat if the Reapers say they'll be spared.

Organics don't give a damn about synthetics except in so far as they can be their tools or slaves.  So what is the point?  Their only concern is ensuring synthetics remain their tools and slaves.

[KingZayd]

S.A.K wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split but the Heretics did develop them. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Wait! what? So the Geth agreed to help Reapers as a trade? Like "if you give us Reaper tech we'll help you attack the citadel and kill organics."? Then again in ME3 the rest of the Geth, "if you save our a**es we'll be your slaves forever". Things like that? Geth don't give a damn about organics at all. Their only concern is survival. And they'll still be that way even if it means the end of everyone else.
So what's to say Geth won't switch sides again and join Reapers if they feel the final battle is going bad for the organics? They'll do that in a heart beat if the Reapers say they'll be spared.

Some Geth*

What about those organics that helped the Reapers (Saren, Benezia, their Asari and Krogan and then Cerberus)? Clearly organics can't be trusted either. They'll side with the Reapers in a heartbeat!

Modifié par KingZayd, 16 mai 2013 - 04:44 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

Silver,

And finally the Quarians are prejudiced pre MW. Tali made it perfectly clear in ME1 that the quarians feared a geth rebellion. That fear was never proven to be true. When you make decisions not based on what someone did but what you imagine they would do because they are different that you, it is prejudice. We would not be having this discussion if the Geth were Quarians too.

AGAIN, DEAD WRONG.
It was NEVER prejudice. How many times must that be drilled into your skull before it clicks?

Of COURSE they feared a geth rebellion, because all geth are WALKING WEAPONS. Last I checked, it's not prejudice to fear a gun. You're sayinjg that if you feel fear for having a gun pressed to your head, that makes you prejudiced to the gun? Your saying that if your brother was trapped in a room with a damaged bomb, it would be prejudiced to fear the bomb? What Bull. Do you even HEAR yourself?
The geth's VERY NATURE - the Nature THEY GAVE THEM - made them combatents. The quarians created their nature.
Assuming a malefunctioning gun is dangerous is NOT prejudiced. And ONCE AGAIN, you FAIL at analyzing their culture, because no one believed the geth WERE living beings.
Trying to put out that it's prejudiced to be afraid of a gun that's started acting abnormal is just asinine.
And AGAIN, last I checked, quarians weren't made of metal alloy, immune to toxins, able to survive in zero-g vacume, and weren't equiped with built-in combat-grade software in every single individual, or able to snap people's neck with a single hand. You can look at ALL the things that make a single geth a dangerous killing machine, and actually try to scoff at people being afriad of an entire population of millions of them, on every street corner, with the chance that any could suddenly go berserk, and could spark a massive rebellion?  You are going to try and  BS that it's prejudice to fear for your familes safety?
Good grief, don't you have ANY attachment to your family?

Right the Geth were Walking Weapons who actually never fired a shot until they were being killed.

Let's see.  The Walking Weapon were currently planting seeds for you, cleaning your house, mining in places you could not and generally serving your needs. 

The Kind Hearted Peace Loving Adorable Organics decided that the Walking Weapons planted seeds, cleaned house, mined in places they could not, and served their needs too well and thus were becoming sentient.  So The Kind Hearted Peace Loving Adorable Organics tried to brutally kill them.

Something is wrong with this picture.  I don't scoff at them being afraid.  I scoff at them using fear to attack the Walking Weapons that were so dangerous that they were currently planting seeds, cleaning house, mining in places they could not, and generally serving their needs.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Geth had also been integrated into the military as well as into all aspects of Quarian civilization. Then they gradually developed sentience, something which they were never supposed to do. They may have had "drone" type Geth in the military. Come on. Chances are they did. We're almost there now ourselves. We've got dumb drones which are human controlled, but they're really close to developing smart drones, and so close that there are initiatives in the UN banning development of them -- already war is getting too sanitized. When do they start turning smart drones against populations?

And eventually they would fear a Geth rebellion as the Geth grew smarter. Especially when they start asking questions. Like Tali said when your toaster starts asking questions about the meaning of life it isn't going to remain content making toast. It is going to want more out of its life. Then suddenly you add millions more synthetic people competing for the work already being done by the Quarians. And eventually they themselves start building more Geth units and surpass the Quarians. Now the Quarians are serving the Geth, but they're not efficient enough. What is to stop the Geth from deactivating the Quarians at this point? Nothing, because the Quarians are serving no purpose to the Geth.

And this is without a single shot being fired. By their nature synthetics must surpass their creators, and they will surpass their creators. How does one teach the synthetic "hey we all have rights?" What if the synthetic views itself as superior, and knows you are flawed? Will it view you as an equal? Or as a lesser being? Still they are machines using binary black or white reasoning. You're either all good or all bad.

That is why the Quarians tried to shut down the Geth. And yes, bullets are a means of shutting down. They weren't quick enough to realize the danger. They had made too many Geth. They allowed the Geth to form too sophisticated a network.

Many bullets will bounce off a geth, and probably most of the ones used by civilians for home defense. Armor Piercing or Disruptor ammo is most effective against them. This is military grade stuff not available to the public.

This is why conflict is inevitable.

[Morlath]

silverexile17s wrote...

They didn't attack the unexpected Cerberus ship when it neared the Migrant Fleet. They didn't shoot Legion at all. Thus far, the quarians have at the very lest proven they have some more restraint. After all, at lest they ward off the people they don't want to talk to, instead of shooting them outright.

But the entire point the Heretics followed Sovergin was so that they could get access to Reaper tech and use it to upgrade their abilaties. Legion says the entire reason they split was because the True Geth did not believe the geth should use alien tech to advance themselves - NOT anything to do with worship. That wasn't where the disagreement was.
And by using Reaper tech, they have basically conformed to the Heretic's goal of upgrading the geth with Reaper tech.

Two things:

If you're going to try and use the Migrant Fleet not blowing up the Cerberus Normandy it might help you remembering that Tali had to give a security phrase to prove her identity.

And people DO change their minds. Preferring to do something one way and not another in one situation only to have circumstances change to where the other path to the same result becomes more of an option is actually what many people do throughout their lives.

[remydat]

Auintus wrote...

So they changed previous beliefs for their own survival. Humans do that all the time. And it never lies in ME3. It does willfully refuse to divulge certain information, but it explains its reasons and I cannot say that I would have done differently. Lastly, why would it not attack Shepard? The wheel says "We're letting the Geth die." Shepard condemns his entire race to extiction. There is no reason to expect it not to fight back.

As for "butchering" Legion, recall that it has been an entire year since the last time you spoke with him and the degree and speed of Geth interactions. Expecting him not to change is like expecting a friend from the 2nd grade to be exactly the same. People change.

You don't get it dude.  Geth are just tools.  They are not allowed to change their minds and so if they say something when their lives are not threatened it means they have to stick to it even when faced with extinction.

Just like America will believe in privacy and due process no matter what even if for example terrorist attacks make believing in such things life threatening.  They would never for example institute something called the Patriot Act, perform extraordinary renditions, or ship people off to some place called Guantanemo Bay  because they value privacy and due process above all else.

Oh wait.

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Geth had also been integrated into the military as well as into all aspects of Quarian civilization. Then they gradually developed sentience, something which they were never supposed to do. They may have had "drone" type Geth in the military. Come on. Chances are they did. We're almost there now ourselves. We've got dumb drones which are human controlled, but they're really close to developing smart drones, and so close that there are initiatives in the UN banning development of them -- already war is getting too sanitized. When do they start turning smart drones against populations?

And eventually they would fear a Geth rebellion as the Geth grew smarter. Especially when they start asking questions. Like Tali said when your toaster starts asking questions about the meaning of life it isn't going to remain content making toast. It is going to want more out of its life. Then suddenly you add millions more synthetic people competing for the work already being done by the Quarians. And eventually they themselves start building more Geth units and surpass the Quarians. Now the Quarians are serving the Geth, but they're not efficient enough. What is to stop the Geth from deactivating the Quarians at this point? Nothing, because the Quarians are serving no purpose to the Geth.

And this is without a single shot being fired. By their nature synthetics must surpass their creators, and they will surpass their creators. How does one teach the synthetic "hey we all have rights?" What if the synthetic views itself as superior, and knows you are flawed? Will it view you as an equal? Or as a lesser being? Still they are machines using binary black or white reasoning. You're either all good or all bad.

That is why the Quarians tried to shut down the Geth. And yes, bullets are a means of shutting down. They weren't quick enough to realize the danger. They had made too many Geth. They allowed the Geth to form too sophisticated a network.

Many bullets will bounce off a geth, and probably most of the ones used by civilians for home defense. Armor Piercing or Disruptor ammo is most effective against them. This is military grade stuff not available to the public.

This is why conflict is inevitable.

Catalyst - I agree with you 100%.  So I have an idea.  I will harvest organics every 50 thousand years so that your own fear and paranoia doesn't result in you receiving the biggest a** kicking ever and being wiped out completely.  Because you know, conflict is inevitable because you think killing something that hasn't fired a shot at you because you decided to teach it how to kill without teaching it morality is cool.

[Morlath]

I'm still trying to decide if I want to reply to any of Silver/SAKs posts since I'm getting tired of circular logic and ignoring points when it suits them gets old after a while but there's one thing that Silver keeps bringing up which is just blatantly wrong.

The Geth were built for all types of manual labour as well as being part of the military, that's true. Except just as Remydat has stated, the latter does not automatically make the former.

- Aside from drones/attack tank type units, all the Geth had to HOLD a weapon. You know; arms, hands, holding a rifle and shooting? So an unarmed Geth unit in the military would be the same as an unarmed Geth unit anywhere else.

- Following on. You don't build a home service unit to have weapons. You don't build a factory unit to have weapons, you don't build a farming unit to have weapons. Why? Because the home service unit needs to know how to look after the home, the factory unit needs to ONLY know how to be a factory working and the farming unit needs to ONLY know how to farm land.

[remydat]

Morlath wrote...

I'm still trying to decide if I want to reply to any of Silver/SAKs posts since I'm getting tired of circular logic and ignoring points when it suits them gets old after a while but there's one thing that Silver keeps bringing up which is just blatantly wrong.

The Geth were built for all types of manual labour as well as being part of the military, that's true. Except just as Remydat has stated, the latter does not automatically make the former.

- Aside from drones/attack tank type units, all the Geth had to HOLD a weapon. You know; arms, hands, holding a rifle and shooting? So an unarmed Geth unit in the military would be the same as an unarmed Geth unit anywhere else.

- Following on. You don't build a home service unit to have weapons. You don't build a factory unit to have weapons, you don't build a farming unit to have weapons. Why? Because the home service unit needs to know how to look after the home, the factory unit needs to ONLY know how to be a factory working and the farming unit needs to ONLY know how to farm land.

Trust me, this will be completely ignored.  They are Walking Weapons Morlath.  So even though it is likely a farming unit was only ever designed and programmed to be a farmer unit, it is a Geth so it must know how to kill.  I have already tried explaining that most likely that farmer unit only knew how to be a farming unit but then when the Quarians attacked in mass it most likely networked itself with a Protection Unit who knew how to shoot and that Protection Unit most likely gave it the knowledge it needed to then pick up a gun and shoot it.

The Quarians would have to be the biggest idiots and also ****tiest parents in the history of parenting to have a domestic or farming unit working at or around their kids while programed with the ability to kill when they had not reason to have such programming when they were going to be doing non violent tasks and most likely around kids.  I mean obviously the Geth Unit that was the cross guard at the school or that was the janitor at the school was also programmed at that exact moment to also use a sniper rifle just in case a kid talked back to his/her teacher.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know it is such a kick watching Remy take every single thing to the absolute extreme. You sidestep everything that is inconvenient. Remy, you are fantastic entertainment.

[Excella Gionne]

I think we're all going in circles here. We bring up the same solution and dissolution to everything. There are so many ways to one solution. We're never gonna find a solution for this thread unless everyone agrees to one thing. I think it's ridiculous on how long this thread has gone.

Legion wanted the Geth to find their own path to a better future, but once ME3 came along the Geth were creating that superstructure so that Geth no longer had to be isolated and that programs could be held within that superstructure. But no, the Quarians attacked it and a large amount of Geth programs were destroyed and non-recoverable. This led to the dimming within the Geth intelligence---relating this similar concept to the "Shutdown Geth Servers" mission about "shutting the lights off". With the Geth intelligence dimmed, it was survival at all cost even if it meant submission to the reapers as slaves. Legion in ME2 said that they wouldn't side with the Reapers and that only the Heretics did because they saw the Reapers as gods, therefore, they left the consensus and built their own. The circumstances of the "No siding with the Reapers" changed after the superstructure was destroyed. They were desperate, and like any Organics they had to choose which choice was the best for them. This relates to a dialogue that EDI says when she's talking about humans trying to make peace with the Reapers or siding with the reapers or not help the reapers. The Geth chose to self-preserve their own race. Mordin's idea of saving and destroying Maelon's data is no different. Circumstances changed, and new decisions had to be made or else the Geth would have gone extinct if they never sided with the Reapers and chose to defend against the Quarians' upgrades to hinder the Geth. Legion knew that without the upgrade, his race was doomed against the fight with Quarians. He wanted the Geth to be an individual and not tied to a consensus. "Does this unit have a soul?" a Geth once said, and even after all this time not one Geth had their own conscience not even Legion until he died. This sort of proves that the Geth, or Synthetic evolution had its limits and with the Reaper upgrades, they could achieve it since they are much more advance. Everyone benefits from the Reapers. Legion grew his own conscience through his experiences with Shepard and with the upgrades. I believe Legion saw himself changing as you can see he starts to act more humanly after the upgrades. he started to show emotions. This must be why he supported it. The Geth VI(Alternated Legion)did not have those experience with Shepard and it was "not" Legion himself, thus, it had its own solution and ideas and contradicting everything Legion was.

[Morlath]

johnnythao89 wrote...

I think we're all going in circles here. We bring up the same solution and dissolution to everything. There are so many ways to one solution. We're never gonna find a solution for this thread unless everyone agrees to one thing. I think it's ridiculous on how long this thread has gone.

Legion wanted the Geth to find their own path to a better future, but once ME3 came along the Geth were creating that superstructure so that Geth no longer had to be isolated and that programs could be held within that superstructure. But no, the Quarians attacked it and a large amount of Geth programs were destroyed and non-recoverable. This led to the dimming within the Geth intelligence---relating this similar concept to the "Shutdown Geth Servers" mission about "shutting the lights off". With the Geth intelligence dimmed, it was survival at all cost even if it meant submission to the reapers as slaves. Legion in ME2 said that they wouldn't side with the Reapers and that only the Heretics did because they saw the Reapers as gods, therefore, they left the consensus and built their own. The circumstances of the "No siding with the Reapers" changed after the superstructure was destroyed. They were desperate, and like any Organics they had to choose which choice was the best for them. This relates to a dialogue that EDI says when she's talking about humans trying to make peace with the Reapers or siding with the reapers or not help the reapers. The Geth chose to self-preserve their own race. Mordin's idea of saving and destroying Maelon's data is no different. Circumstances changed, and new decisions had to be made or else the Geth would have gone extinct if they never sided with the Reapers and chose to defend against the Quarians' upgrades to hinder the Geth. Legion knew that without the upgrade, his race was doomed against the fight with Quarians. He wanted the Geth to be an individual and not tied to a consensus. "Does this unit have a soul?" a Geth once said, and even after all this time not one Geth had their own conscience not even Legion until he died. This sort of proves that the Geth, or Synthetic evolution had its limits and with the Reaper upgrades, they could achieve it since they are much more advance. Everyone benefits from the Reapers. Legion grew his own conscience through his experiences with Shepard and with the upgrades. I believe Legion saw himself changing as you can see he starts to act more humanly after the upgrades. he started to show emotions. This must be why he supported it. The Geth VI(Alternated Legion)did not have those experience with Shepard and it was "not" Legion himself, thus, it had its own solution and ideas and contradicting everything Legion was.

And this is essentially my argument.

There are extenuating circumstances for what the Geth have done. It doesn't excuse any of it from an organic perspective but the reasons are actually there and valid. But the anti-Geth brigade don't seem to be interested in any of that.

[S.A.K]

KingZayd wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split but the Heretics did develop them. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Wait! what? So the Geth agreed to help Reapers as a trade? Like "if you give us Reaper tech we'll help you attack the citadel and kill organics."? Then again in ME3 the rest of the Geth, "if you save our a**es we'll be your slaves forever". Things like that? Geth don't give a damn about organics at all. Their only concern is survival. And they'll still be that way even if it means the end of everyone else.
So what's to say Geth won't switch sides again and join Reapers if they feel the final battle is going bad for the organics? They'll do that in a heart beat if the Reapers say they'll be spared.

Some Geth*

What about those organics that helped the Reapers (Saren, Benezia, their Asari and Krogan and then Cerberus)? Clearly organics can't be trusted either. They'll side with the Reapers in a heartbeat!

Those are a very few individual organics. Other organics helped to take them down. Geth took their decisions as a whole species with their consensus. Only some Geth joined the Reapers as Heretics. But the rest of the Geth approved and didn't do anything about it. And now all of them have joined Reapers because they couldn't face the Quarians. It doesn't even look like they even considered any alternetives. Only the Geth have joined Reapers as a species. How can they be trusted at all? Legion itself went against almost everything it said in ME2.

[S.A.K]

Morlath wrote...

I'm still trying to decide if I want to reply to any of Silver/SAKs posts since I'm getting tired of circular logic and ignoring points when it suits them gets old after a while but there's one thing that Silver keeps bringing up which is just blatantly wrong.

I can say the same about you. You failed give a single reason why Geth can be trusted. When I say something, you only comment on the parts you can argue on. You don't even accept obvious atrocities Geth commited and make lame excuses to justify why they did those.