826 réponses à ce sujet

[DullahansXMark]

PinkysPain wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It was the only way for him or the Geth to stop the warmongering Quarian horde.
It was a do or die decision. Similar to the one Shepard faced with the crucible.
It was a minor compromise when facing imminent extinction.

I don't buy the extinction, it would have been a lot of death geth of course ... but I don't buy the extinction.

To me his choices were :
- Let a lot of geth die.
- Forever taint the geth race with reaper code, impacting infinitely more geth than could die that day (ignoring destroy, which he couldn't know was coming).

Don't let Legion upload the code and see what happens.

Spoilers: the Geth go extinct.

[PsyrenY]

iakus wrote...

ME2 Legion:  "Geth build their own future.  Shortcuts are bad"
ME3 Legion: "Reaper code! OM NOM NOM!!!!"

ME2 situation: "We wished to understand, not incite. One platform was deemed sufficient."
ME3 situation: "A significant amount of programs were installed when creators began bombing."

Mordin: "Change in circumstances necessitates course correction."

[NathanW18]

The situation changed.

Who would guess the quarians would decide to start a war when the reapers are on their doorstep. Shepard can even tell them in ME2 not to start a war, because the reapers are coming and their fleets will be needed in the fight against them.

Modifié par NathanW18, 09 mai 2013 - 06:33 .

[TheProtheans]

o Ventus wrote...

Protip: it you ask "am I the only one...", chances are you aren't.

I thought I was the only one with that view.

[CDR David Shepard]

I always had this feeling that he was "somewhat indoctrinated" in ME3.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 09 mai 2013 - 06:41 .

[AresKeith]

I would've liked the opinion to talk Legion out of doing the upload with the Geth Heretic choice playing a part

[teh DRUMPf!!]

iakus wrote...

ME2 Legion:  "Geth build their own future.  Shortcuts are bad"
ME3 Legion: "Reaper code! OM NOM NOM!!!!"

I never understood why people found the "build your own future, shortcuts blind us"-nonsense was so deep and meaningful. It was rather stupid and I've never observed that notion to be remotely true IRL.

It gets even wackier when Legion contradicts this logic within ME2 alone, what to say of come ME3.

I would argue that if you logic has no pragmatic value (as shown within ME2) and will actually even cost you and your whole species their lives (as shown in ME3), your logic sucks and ought to be thrown out the proverbial airlock.

[Enhanced]

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.

This. The Geth were just trying to survive. Legion didnt want to his race to go extinct. I can't really blame them for that.

Modifié par Enhanced, 09 mai 2013 - 06:51 .

[CDR David Shepard]

Enhanced wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.

This. The Geth were just trying to survive. Legion didnt want to his race to go extinct. I can't really blame them for that.

I can.

The Geth apparently knew more about the Reapers than anyone else.

They knew the Reapers wanted to wipe out nearly all of galactic civilization.

They willingly allied themselves with that.

It doesn't matter what your reasons were.


Are you saying that if we had another option in the endings...where you had the choice to join forces with the Reapers to save yourself and humanity...but let the rest of the Galaxy be destroyed by the Reapers...you would choose that option?

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 09 mai 2013 - 06:56 .

[KingZayd]

Desperate times.

The Dyson sphere was destroyed, and the Geth had lost a lot of intelligence.

[Iakus]

Enhanced wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.

This. The Geth were just trying to survive. Legion didnt want to his race to go extinct. I can't really blame them for that.

So he continued the upload, even sacrificing his own identity to ensure it, after the quarians stop attacking.

Riiiiiight.

[AresKeith]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

I can.

The Geth apparently knew more about the Reapers than anyone else.

They knew the Reapers wanted to wipe out nearly all of galactic civilization.

They willingly allied themselves with that.

It doesn't matter what your reasons were.

You can also blame the Quarians for pushing them into it

The Geth was preparing to join the Organics in fighting the Reaper

[KingZayd]

iakus wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.

This. The Geth were just trying to survive. Legion didnt want to his race to go extinct. I can't really blame them for that.

So he continued the upload, even sacrificing his own identity to ensure it, after the quarians stop attacking.

Riiiiiight.

Because the Reapers would just ignore the Geth after they lost one of their ships?

[PsyrenY]

iakus wrote...

So he continued the upload, even sacrificing his own identity to ensure it, after the quarians stop attacking.

Riiiiiight.

Without it, his entire species was still vulnerable to Xen's form of attack. Imagine if your entire race is vulnerable to a certain virus and you have the vaccine; even if the current enemy threatening to use the virus on you backs off, you want to make sure that they can't change their minds for any reason down the road and finish wiping you out, or that any other hostile who gets the same virus can't choose to destroy or enslave you themselves.

[CDR David Shepard]

AresKeith wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

I can.

The Geth apparently knew more about the Reapers than anyone else.

They knew the Reapers wanted to wipe out nearly all of galactic civilization.

They willingly allied themselves with that.

It doesn't matter what your reasons were.

You can also blame the Quarians for pushing them into it

The Geth was preparing to join the Organics in fighting the Reaper

I can blame the Quarians for fighting the Geth when we all should be fighting the Reapers...

...but there is no excuse for actually joining the Reapers.

It's one thing to take drastic measures...it's a whole other thing to willingly join the Reapers.

In my eyes...willingly helping the Reapers is the worst thing anyone in the galaxy could do.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 09 mai 2013 - 07:04 .

[Interloper]

To be honest, most of the characters lost the personalities we adored in ME2. Call me brutal but I might actually have wept for the silent, dutiful Legion in ME2 but couldn't care less for the death of the deceptive, angry Legion in ME3. I actually like the fact they managed to preserve Mordin so well, and he was a character I actually liked in ME3. Wrex on the other hand was so off his gruff yet wise attitude of ME1 and ME2, he just became another Korgan jock he used to denigrate back in ME1. He was still entertaining I suppose though. In my opinion, the character change I appreciated the most was Kaidan. He went from miserable, awkward and bland to fairly witty, interesting and to be honest...he had been with you ever since Prime!

RIP Jenkins...accursed synthetic Geth drones!!!!

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

You are difinitely not alone OP.

ME2 Legion used to be my #3 favorite character of the whole ME series. Now I just want to shoot that thing and get it over with. Just thinking about the Rannoch story arc and how it portray Geth in general makes me see how crappy ME3 writting really is. I didn't feel sorry about killing the Geth in destroy ending one bit.

Geth had no choice other than Reaper slavery? Really?

Unfortunately the writers made the Quarians irredemable warmongers and forced the issue.

Can't blame the Quarians for wanting their world back. Geth were holding it for no good reason and forced their hand.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Exile Isan wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...
- Let a lot of geth die.

If the geth loose a lot of programs they will no longer be as intelligent as they are now, they have the possiblity of going back to being simple VI's again. Legion, and all the other geth I'm sure, do not want that. Legion mentions that this kinda happened when the quarians destroyed the megastructure that the geth were building, they lost a lot of programs which dimmed their intelligence. The geth have self preservation insticts just like organics and they decided that siding with the Reapers and being their slaves was prefereable to extiction. I think this also made Legion realized that being a collective intelligence is not the strength he thought it was. All the Reaper code does is make each geth program an individual with independent intelligence.

"Is surrender not prefereable to extinction?" -- Saren Arterius

Well, so they choose to be slaves to the reapers. You do realize that Xen (aka Space Morrigan) also was on the Admiralty, and did not want to totally annihilate the Geth. She wanted to bring the Geth down to a number where the Quarians could bring them back under their control and integrate them into their fleet to help fight the reapers. So the Geth were not in danger of extinction. They actually could have surrendered to the Quarians instead.

This is all in dialogue that did not make it into the game. Some of it is on the game disk itself. Some of it is indicated from ME2.

The reaper signal caused the plan to fail.

[Liamv2]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I kept the Collector Base.

I taught him the lesson that progress is good, whatever the means.

He learnt that lesson well.

This except i did not keep the base because i did not trust tim

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...
- Let a lot of geth die.

If the geth loose a lot of programs they will no longer be as intelligent as they are now, they have the possiblity of going back to being simple VI's again. Legion, and all the other geth I'm sure, do not want that. Legion mentions that this kinda happened when the quarians destroyed the megastructure that the geth were building, they lost a lot of programs which dimmed their intelligence. The geth have self preservation insticts just like organics and they decided that siding with the Reapers and being their slaves was prefereable to extiction. I think this also made Legion realized that being a collective intelligence is not the strength he thought it was. All the Reaper code does is make each geth program an individual with independent intelligence.

"Is surrender not prefereable to extinction?" -- Saren Arterius

Well, so they choose to be slaves to the reapers. You do realize that Xen (aka Space Morrigan) also was on the Admiralty, and did not want to totally annihilate the Geth. She wanted to bring the Geth down to a number where the Quarians could bring them back under their control and integrate them into their fleet to help fight the reapers. So the Geth were not in danger of extinction. They actually could have surrendered to the Quarians instead.

This is all in dialogue that did not make it into the game. Some of it is on the game disk itself. Some of it is indicated from ME2.

The reaper signal caused the plan to fail.

Xen may have wanted to control the Geth, but what makes you think the other Quarians were in favour of this plan?

Even if they were, were the Geth aware of the plan?

Even if they were, are you seriously complaining that the Geth didn't let the "right" side enslave them?

Modifié par KingZayd, 09 mai 2013 - 07:27 .

[S.A.K]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I kept the Collector Base.

I taught him the lesson that progress is good, whatever the means.

He learnt that lesson well.

Except I didn't. But Legion does the same thing.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@ KingZayd: Having that dreadnought as part of the fleet? I think Koris would have compromised on this rather than wiping them out like Gerrel advocated. I can hear the conversation now:

Xen: "Koris, 'our children' have advanced so far so fast. Look at that dreadnought, Tali. Look at its design. Think of what we could learn. Think of what we could achieve. Koris, wouldn't you rather keep our children alive and under our control? or would you listen to some old warhorse like Gerrel who can only see things down the barrel of a gun?"
Koris: "Yes, but Xen you realize..."
Xen: "I realize that it is one or the other, and it makes our flotilla stronger. You know I take flotilla safety and security very seriously. So which is it?"
Koris: "Very well. This is better than destroying them. The Civilian Fleet does not want war anyway."
Gerrel: "No. Tali, Ra'an, don't listen to her."
Tali: "I still think you're insane, Xen, but if it will stop the war I'll agree."
Ra'an: "Then it is settled. I'll agree, Xen. Make sure your plan works."

[PinkysPain]

What exactly do the intentions of the geth have to do with Legion? He wasn't an active part of the collective when he made his decision, he was an individual ... he betrayed his principles.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 09 mai 2013 - 07:53 .

[Clayless]

PinkysPain wrote...

What the upgrades do is irrelevant to my original point, all of that is expedience ... ME2 Legion had principles.

Legion was a machine of logic. The Reaper code doesn't change the fact that they can building their own future, it just makes it so each Geth is a sentient being.