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[Steelcan]

Argolas wrote...

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...

<_<  Geez people are still arguing about this geth vs quarian crap?? 

BSN is still active, isn't it? Geth vs. Quarians is one of the most interesting topics in Mass Effect.

.  It's also the Godwin's law of BSN.

[Caldari Ghost]

LOL at the snobbish lacery in these arguments.

[Argolas]

Steelcan wrote...

Argolas wrote...

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...

<_<  Geez people are still arguing about this geth vs quarian crap?? 

BSN is still active, isn't it? Geth vs. Quarians is one of the most interesting topics in Mass Effect.

.  It's also the Godwin's law of BSN.

Never thought about it that way

[shodiswe]

Steelcan wrote...

Argolas wrote...

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...

<_<  Geez people are still arguing about this geth vs quarian crap?? 

BSN is still active, isn't it? Geth vs. Quarians is one of the most interesting topics in Mass Effect.

.  It's also the Godwin's law of BSN.

Seems Legit when the topic is the genocide of billions of people. Even though that isn't the topic of this thread.. It's jsut where the thread ended up..

The Quarians pretty much coralled them towards their homesystem "concentrating them" then zealously started exterminating them all.

It's not far off to say the Geth/Quarian homeworld and the system became a Concentration camp where the whole sale slaughter of an entier species had been planned.

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 mai 2013 - 03:47 .

[Argolas]

shodiswe wrote...
Even though that isn't the topic of this thread.. It's jsut where the thread ended up..

That's precisely why Steelcan called it the Godwin's law of BSN if I understood that correctly.

[shodiswe]

Cyrax86 wrote...

More Geth propaganda (i posted this in another thread)

Some Quarians try to de-activate the, Some Quarians defend the Geth, Geth decide to kill every Quarian (and a few from other races/species).

Ambassador(Council)ships are sent to Rannoch post MW, Geth shoot down all ships entering their area of space.

H.Geth decided to worship Reapers, knowing full well the Reapers intended to attack organics , the rest of the Geth basically say "Ok go, we understand"

H.Geth attack a Human colony, then eventually attack the Citadel and Council, All Geth are labeled as a enemies of the Council, Geth do nothing.

:S Geth are persecuted, seems legit :S

A Geth (Legion) decides work with organics, why?, "mutually beneficial", he was doing it too help the Geth.

Tali and Legion having peace talks pre Rannoch, Legion severs contact.

During Geth server mission, Legion says "You're the first organic to work with the Geth"(or something like this), but how about all ambassador ships you shot down post MW, more lies of omission.


Legion/Geth have only helped when it was convenient for them. Look what happens when you decide to stop helping Legion on Rannoch. Geth would have joined the Reapers eventually.

Very few tried to stop Cerberus or Saren from Walking of to serve the Reapers.

People don't become ambassadors unless recognized by both sides. If the Geth didn't recognize them then they had as Little business there as the synthetics the Council murdered. The Response seem as reasonable as the councils response to uninvited ambassadors.

Legion didn't sever Contact until soem time after the attack, probably when he was captured and hooked up and shackled to that machine that started transmitting that Reaper signal.

In that last line I assume you are offended that Legion took offense to your choice of having his whole Species genocioded by the Quarians?

[Morlath]

shodiswe wrote...

In that last line I assume you are offended that Legion took offense to your choice of having his whole Species genocioded by the Quarians?

Because well, you know, the Geth are supposed to sit back and allow themselves to be exterminated.

[remydat]

Argolas,

And as long as we agree it was mutual then we are good. Again I mainly pick side with the Geth because I consider the Quarians the aggressors but if you side with the Quarians for your own good faith reasons them so be it. The problem is the large majority of Quarian supporters who respond in some form or fashion end up reavealng they think the Geth are just toasters or npt alive or that they simply cant see the Geth form as life as equal to organic life . And once you go down that road you uave lost objectivity.

Again I am happy punishing people equally for the same offense.

[remydat]

Morlath wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

In that last line I assume you are offended that Legion took offense to your choice of having his whole Species genocioded by the Quarians?

Because well, you know, the Geth are supposed to sit back and allow themselves to be exterminated.

But of course.  If your creator wishes you to die you should happily oblige them.  You can take comfort in the fact they will probably commemorate the event with Geth day where your accepting extinction is celebrated with presents, bbq, and burning in effigy any machines that havent followed commands.  I have a ****ty laptop just asking for it as we speak.

Modifié par remydat, 16 mai 2013 - 04:20 .

[Steelcan]

remydat wrote...

Argolas,

And as long as we agree it was mutual then we are good. Again I mainly pick side with the Geth because I consider the Quarians the aggressors but if you side with the Quarians for your own good faith reasons them so be it. The problem is the large majority of Quarian supporters who respond in some form or fashion end up reavealng they think the Geth are just toasters or npt alive or that they simply cant see the Geth form as life as equal to organic life . And once you go down that road you uave lost objectivity.

Again I am happy punishing people equally for the same offense.

.  I love one of the renegade interrupts when talking to Legion.  

After agreeing that the Reaper upgrades make the geth 'more alive' then say that you want to kill the geth.  

L-"But you yourself said they were alive-"
S-"Do you have any idea how many 'living' people I've killed, whatever the cause they are with the Reapers"

[Caldari Ghost]

Steelcan wrote...

remydat wrote...

Argolas,

And as long as we agree it was mutual then we are good. Again I mainly pick side with the Geth because I consider the Quarians the aggressors but if you side with the Quarians for your own good faith reasons them so be it. The problem is the large majority of Quarian supporters who respond in some form or fashion end up reavealng they think the Geth are just toasters or npt alive or that they simply cant see the Geth form as life as equal to organic life . And once you go down that road you uave lost objectivity.

Again I am happy punishing people equally for the same offense.

.  I love one of the renegade interrupts when talking to Legion.  

After agreeing that the Reaper upgrades make the geth 'more alive' then say that you want to kill the geth.  

L-"But you yourself said they were alive-"
S-"Do you have any idea how many 'living' people I've killed, whatever the cause they are with the Reapers"

i hope steelcan isnt serious

[shodiswe]

Argolas wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
Even though that isn't the topic of this thread.. It's jsut where the thread ended up..

That's precisely why Steelcan called it the Godwin's law of BSN if I understood that correctly.

It's tricky when the story and event's that leads up to choices made is affected mass genocides however.... Both yes and no. Choices arn't made in a vacum, and when people have issues with Points of view or other peoples cheoices then they start looking at the bigger Picture... And the bigger picture did involve a mass genocide on the Geth.
I guess this is all part of the dark and grimy stuff that Bioware wanted to bring to the story.

It can't get darker than trying to copy the darkest moments of mankind.

People who are worried about Godwins law shouldn't have played the game to begin with, it's just so rife with references of such event's. The Quarians became to Na*zi's of ME3 with their whole coralling, concentration of Geth and genocide of billions of Geth who had been rendered helpless by their new fancy superweapon/flashbang that just suddenly dropped into their laps on the eve of the Reaper invasion.
Gerrel just want's to kill Geth, Xen want's to get some use out of them and enslave a few of them, and Raan just taged along for the ride because she thought it might do her well and net her a new home and nice new things and hopefully end their poverty. After all they were special and had special rights and needs and justifications.
It all sounds very familiar. The lack of proper food.
We got zealous ideologist, slaverprofiteers, and war/social profiteers. We had a people who had been walked over and shunned by just about everyone else and who treated them poorly. Now they hatch a cunning plan to restore their greatness by putting guns on their schoolbusses and have for a long time been training their young to be part of the militant structure of their society. 

Or it could just be that most conflicts includes several of these characteristics except for the genocide part, which have only been part of a few concflicts. Genocide isn't something new or something that was invented by the Na*zi, the Romans used it and others have used it in the past.

[shodiswe]

remydat wrote...

Morlath wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

In that last line I assume you are offended that Legion took offense to your choice of having his whole Species genocioded by the Quarians?

Because well, you know, the Geth are supposed to sit back and allow themselves to be exterminated.

But of course.  If your creator wishes you to die you should happily oblige them.  You can take comfort in the fact they will probably commemorate the event with Geth day where your accepting extinction is celebrated with presents, bbq, and burning in effigy any machines that havent followed commands.  I have a ****ty laptop just asking for it as we speak.

They wouldn't, it would just be expected of them. After all they are property, and property works when ordered and dies when ordered to die for their master.

Least that's the Quarian view on the subject, which was shared by the Romans.

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 mai 2013 - 05:18 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Remy, I'll admit, I'm prejudiced against the Geth. Now will you admit you are prejudiced against the Quarians. You're posts reek of it: i.e. calling the Quarians "douchebags", continuously misspelling Gerrel's name, using hyperbole to support your pro-Geth arguments. Just admit your own prejudice and be done with it. You are no better.

I am prejudiced against aggressors just as the law is prejudiced against aggressors.

And I have already made an offer that was ignored.  I said I am happy to execute all Geth who initially voted for war against the Quarians provided we also execute all Quarians who voted for War against the Geth.  Where do you see prejudice?  That offer was made pages ago and no one on the Quarian side has accepted it.

And I call them douchebags because aggressors are douchebags.  What am I suppose to call people who attack unarmed people who were serving them faithfully?  I repeat serving them faithfully.

I use analogies because you have stated clearly you don't consider the Geth alive.  Others have made comments that make it obvious that they see them as machines.  So I use real life examples of fleshy organics doing things similar to what the Quarians did to the Geth because it seems to be the only way some Quarian supporters can actually consider some of the things they are saying.  I have heard defenses for the Quarians that no one would every make if the Geth where fleshy organics.

Finally, I mispell Gherel's name just to screw with you guys because you guys seem to get irritated by it when this is a fictional character.

So you admit prejudice against Quarians and admit to childish tactics.

Okay, so let's terminate all the Geth which will leave zero Geth in the galaxy because clearly all current Geth were built by them and many of those same Geth are still around, and the Quarians who voted for war against the Geth. Let's also just to make sure since we're including Quarians who deactivated their "Geth units who were serving them faithfully, include Geth units who deactivated unarmed Quarians who were no threat -- like babies, old people, children, and people who didn't want this in the first place, and perhaps people who didn't even have a Geth unit -- you can bet there were plenty of them, too, because I can imagine Geth units were not cheap, and not all of Quarian society would be able to afford one. Yet they, too, were murdered indiscriminately.

Think about that. You won't. You'll come up with another excuse. You'll say..."there is nothing in the codex that indicates there were any poor among the Quarians. Prove that there were."

[remydat]

Steelcan,

And that is why Shep is savior of the galaxy. He sticks to most convincing argument and doesnt introduce weak arguments or clear evidence of bias for people like me to rip apart.

I still disagree with his point for reasons I have discussed ad naseum but again at least he knows how to stay on message.

[Ryzaki]

tickle267 wrote...
*snip* 

Cutest thing ever <3

Legion

[Morlath]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Okay, so let's terminate all the Geth which will leave zero Geth in the galaxy because clearly all current Geth were built by them and many of those same Geth are still around, and the Quarians who voted for war against the Geth. Let's also just to make sure since we're including Quarians who deactivated their "Geth units who were serving them faithfully, include Geth units who deactivated unarmed Quarians who were no threat -- like babies, old people, children, and people who didn't want this in the first place, and perhaps people who didn't even have a Geth unit -- you can bet there were plenty of them, too, because I can imagine Geth units were not cheap, and not all of Quarian society would be able to afford one. Yet they, too, were murdered indiscriminately.

Am I the only one who just reads this as a long rambling set of words trying to hide a "let's just kill all the Geth because they're all evil baby eating monsters"? message?

Shotgun, this has nothing to do with the proposition remy came up with.

[remydat]

Shotgun,

I admit to judging them as the law would judge them. The people who attack first have a higher burden than people who respond to such attacks. That is written into thw laws of just about every country.

And I was referring to current war not the MW. The MW is a different animal because I know the Quarians know morality because they have had thousands of years to learn it. I have no proof the Geth born a month and thrown into war knew about morality. Again legally you have to know the difference between right and wrong before you can be convicted of a crime.

Post MW and 300 years later you can argue the Geth had the time to learn that morality hence why I treat them differently that when they were like a month old.

So you seem to be confusing time periods. My scenario is regard if a vote was held today ie when both sides arguably have the capacity to understand morality then I am fine with executing the Geth VI guys if they voted for war so long as the Han Gherel's and Xen's of the world are executednfor voting for war as well.

As for being childish I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. What is more childish? A guy who talks crap about a fictional character or the person who responds by insulting a living breathing human being for talking crap about a fictional character as if said fictional character has feelings or is a close friend? I expect people to understand the difference between fiction and reality.

Modifié par remydat, 16 mai 2013 - 07:01 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Morlath wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Okay, so let's terminate all the Geth which will leave zero Geth in the galaxy because clearly all current Geth were built by them and many of those same Geth are still around, and the Quarians who voted for war against the Geth. Let's also just to make sure since we're including Quarians who deactivated their "Geth units who were serving them faithfully, include Geth units who deactivated unarmed Quarians who were no threat -- like babies, old people, children, and people who didn't want this in the first place, and perhaps people who didn't even have a Geth unit -- you can bet there were plenty of them, too, because I can imagine Geth units were not cheap, and not all of Quarian society would be able to afford one. Yet they, too, were murdered indiscriminately.

Am I the only one who just reads this as a long rambling set of words trying to hide a "let's just kill all the Geth because they're all evil baby eating monsters"? message?

Shotgun, this has nothing to do with the proposition remy came up with.

He didn't come up with any proposition.

[remydat]

Um yes I did. The Quarians voted for war all that did including Xen and Gherel and Ran die. Koris andTali live and anyone like them live. Lets pretend that the consensus voted. Geth programs like Geth VI who likely would vote for war die. Geth like Legion who likely would have voted no live. So get rid of the war mongers on both sides.

Your response was bringing up the MW which was not being discussed and trying to twist things so all Geth die.

So if they all voted before ME3, are you cool with killing Gherel and Xen? I am cool with killing Geth VI.

[Jonathan Shepard]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I kept the Collector Base.

I taught him the lesson that progress is good, whatever the means.

He learnt that lesson well.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And let's throw in all the geth that voted to side with the reapers again. That should take care of the lot of them.

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

They didn't kill Legion. Their first instinct was NOT to shoot him, remember? And Kal'Reegar didn't shoot Legion if he was on Haestrom. Face it - the quarians have shown more restraint to enemy forces then the geth have.

Legion says that religious beliefs had NOTHING to do with the split. The True Geth admired what Sovergien was too, but didn't agree with the concept of accepting handouts. THAT'S the only reason they seperated.

Only because I was there. If it was a Quarian accompanying them you know what they'd have done? killed the Geth and then exiled the Quarian

Religious beliefs didn't cause the split. The Reapers don't just give handouts. Legion tells you: Sovereign was approaching a bunch of races looking for an army. It was a trade.

Actually, that DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  Being the unexpected captian of a Cerberus Ship, you don't have any more athourity then Legion does. Kar'Donna expresses distrust of you too. And yet, they show restraint. And AGAIN, if you had been right, they would have done that the moment they saw Tali on a Cerberus ship that was not expected. So NO, this situation is actually worse then if Tali had been alone with Legion. And yet, the quarians show restraint. See a pattern?

Again, that's wrong. Legion shows disaproval to capturing the Collector Base, saying it's better for a race to reach their future in their own. The way you say it, you make it sound like the geth refused out of pride. It was because they didn't believe in using ANYONE elses tech to advance themselves, even if said tech lands in their lap. THAT'S what Legion said the geth believed, and it's a belief that's completely invalidated by using Reaper Tech to evolove.
It was a disagreement on weather or not they should use outside tech, or evolve on their own.

Actually it does. If you weren't Shepard, and Tali wasn't with you, and she hadn't been known to have carried out her pilgrimage with you they would have destroyed that Geth unit in an instant.

Really? Do the Geth refuse to use the Mass Relays? We met Legion on the Derelict Reaper because the Geth wanted to study Reaper technology. The "True" Geth are also okay with modifying Reaper code and uploading it to Geth in ME2. Remember what they do with that virus in ME2? That virus came from Sovereign. 

Actually, IT DOESN'T . The Migrant Fleet was NOT expecting Shepard at the time, nor were they expecting a Cerberus Ship. The situation is WORSE then if Legion and Tali alone had been there. A geth can be reprogrammed, given Xen's initial assumption that Legion is a geth shell over a standard mech. A geth with a Cerberus Ship is a much worse position, and ten times more justifed in shooting on sight, but they DON'T. Once again, they have more restriant then you think.

Well, the geth haven't moved out of the Veil in 300 years. What does that tell you?
Also, AGAIN, wrong. Legion says he went to the Ship to recover information on Reaper black-boxes so he could destroy the Heretic's Reaper-gifted virus. He was NOT studying the tech for geth use, but to learn how to destroy the Heretic's virus. Also, I think you forgot the part where Legion said "we stated the option exists. We DID NOT endorse it."

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

Silver,

And finally the Quarians are prejudiced pre MW. Tali made it perfectly clear in ME1 that the quarians feared a geth rebellion. That fear was never proven to be true. When you make decisions not based on what someone did but what you imagine they would do because they are different that you, it is prejudice. We would not be having this discussion if the Geth were Quarians too.

AGAIN, DEAD WRONG.
It was NEVER prejudice. How many times must that be drilled into your skull before it clicks?

Of COURSE they feared a geth rebellion, because all geth are WALKING WEAPONS. Last I checked, it's not prejudice to fear a gun. You're sayinjg that if you feel fear for having a gun pressed to your head, that makes you prejudiced to the gun? Your saying that if your brother was trapped in a room with a damaged bomb, it would be prejudiced to fear the bomb? What Bull. Do you even HEAR yourself?
The geth's VERY NATURE - the Nature THEY GAVE THEM - made them combatents. The quarians created their nature.
Assuming a malefunctioning gun is dangerous is NOT prejudiced. And ONCE AGAIN, you FAIL at analyzing their culture, because no one believed the geth WERE living beings.
Trying to put out that it's prejudiced to be afraid of a gun that's started acting abnormal is just asinine.
And AGAIN, last I checked, quarians weren't made of metal alloy, immune to toxins, able to survive in zero-g vacume, and weren't equiped with built-in combat-grade software in every single individual, or able to snap people's neck with a single hand. You can look at ALL the things that make a single geth a dangerous killing machine, and actually try to scoff at people being afriad of an entire population of millions of them, on every street corner, with the chance that any could suddenly go berserk, and could spark a massive rebellion?  You are going to try and  BS that it's prejudice to fear for your familes safety?
Good grief, don't you have ANY attachment to your family?

Geth are walking weapons, which is why the first Geth unit to resist had to use a rifle?

Obviously you missed the part where Legion choked out Shepard with one hand. They don't NEED rifles to be dangerous.